Minutes from W3C M&E IG monthly call 5 May 2020

Dear all,

The minutes from today's Media & Entertainment Interest Group call are now available [1], and copied below. The slides are also available [2].

There are a number of action items:

* Contact media companies with potential interest in WoT use cases
* With DASH-IF, review DataCue use cases, gather support, share with browser vendors
* Decide time for next call for Bullet Chatting Task Force
* Kaz to update DWANGO and invite to next Bullet Chatting call
* Continue outreach for media production use cases
* Francois to create a "heat map" of activity in media related groups at W3C
* Create a GitHub repository to host the Web Media Integration guidelines document

Kind regards,

Chris (Co-chair, W3C Media & Entertainment Interest Group)

[1] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2020Apr/0044.html

[2] https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/10l6PldkoBA4E7EwEC9gEtdNn9eFnsdbDS085RBLV0hw/edit


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W3C
- DRAFT -
Media & Entertainment IG Monthly Call
05 May 2020

Agenda
    https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2020Apr/0044.html

Attendees

Present
    Kaz_Ashimura, Chris_Needham, Huaqi_Shan, Tatsuya_Igarashi, Larry_Zhao, Peipei_Guo, Rob_Smith, Takio_Yamaoka, Will_Law, Yajun_Chen, Francois_Daoust, Nigel_Megitt, Andreas_Tai, Gary_Katsevman, Fuqiao_Xue, pal, John_Riviello, John_Simmons, Song_Xu, Garrett_Singer, Greg_Freedman, Peter_tho_Pesch, Kazuhiro_Hoya

Regrets

Chair
    Chris, Pierre, Igarashi

Scribe
    tidoust

Contents

Topics
    WoT media use cases
    Media Timed Events and DataCue API
    Bullet chatting
    Media Production use cases
    Web Media API Integration Guidelines
    Future activities in M&E IG
    TPAC 2020 planning

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

<kaz> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/10l6PldkoBA4E7EwEC9gEtdNn9eFnsdbDS085RBLV0hw/edit Chris' slides

<scribe> scribe: tidoust

# WoT media use cases

cpn: NHK shared a use case around home scenarios.
.... Are there other use cases? e.g. Synchronized media playback?

Johnsim: What are the media companies that are participating in the WoT discussions?

cpn: Primarily NHK for the moment. I've just been involved as coordination point between our two groups.

Johnsim: It would be useful to sollicit a bit of feedback from media companies.

cpn: It might need some direct approaches to media companies.

Johnsim: The information in the slides is enough to provide that information?

<kaz> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/blob/master/USE-CASES/nhk-device-tv-sync.md NHK's proposed use case

cpn: Yes. It may be worthwhile preparing a more high level description but that's the core of it.
.... Also look at the slides deck from previous meeting.

<kaz> https://www.w3.org/2020/02/04-me-minutes.html ME-WoT joint call minutes

kaz: I just wanted to mention that WoT group is gathering various use cases..
.... They're making it so that people from the IG can freely join the discussion

<inserted> https://doodle.com/poll/nn5vyuwx4tk6b8fh Doodle poll to decide the WoT IG's use case call slot

# Media Timed Events and DataCue API

cpn: We've circulated a call for consensus to publish an updated IG Note. Use cases and requirements document. There's been a few updates to this.
.... We've improved the use cases, terminology, and got some quite specific recommendations for next steps.
.... Call closes tomorrow. I would like to invite you to review the document now!
.... My current thought is that this is the last update to this document that we will produce.
.... Work is now moving to the WICG on DataCue, where we have an open collaboration with the DASH-IF. Separate to this, a couple of proposals were raised in the WHATWG
.... Is there another strand of work that we would like to come out of Media Timed Events?

<kaz> https://github.com/w3c/media-and-entertainment/issues/36 Issue 36 for CfC

cpn: For instance, synchronized overlay rendering, raised by Peter recently?

Johnsim: I had a conversation with Mounir et al at Google to assess status of DataCue. I assume that, at some point, the Media WG will take on the work.
.... The DataCue API is special, in the middle between HTML expertise and media expertise.
.... Many people on board but it could take a long time to get this right.

cpn: We need their support and involvement for sure. I've been hesitant progressing too far with specifying things too much at this stage.
.... I'd like to establish a dialog with browser vendors.
.... If there's agreement on the use cases, there is no blocker to progressing the specifying and I'm happy to drive it from an editorial perspective.
.... But I feel I need others to be involved from a media perspective. People knowledgeable on media formats and containers.

Johnsim: The thing that would work best would be to get media companies that have good relationships with browser vendors to raise these use cases and requirements with them.
.... Once that is clear, model the solution.
.... My understanding is that Apple and Google are taking a different approach.
.... I'm chatting with them in the background. Important to get browser vendors to understand that there is generic support from media companies.

cpn: OK, happy to work with you on this.

Johnsim: It would be good to have TPAC as "due date".

cpn: That may be ambitious but let's make progress!

# Bullet chatting

<xfq> https://github.com/w3c/danmaku/issues/55

Huaqi: After last meeting discussion and comments, we have adjusted the scope of the task force, focused on rendering capabilities of bullet chatting, not on data interchange format.
.... Besides scope definition, we're all working on 3 main use cases based on a use cases template.
.... During next call, we'd like to review the scope and use cases in the M&E IG.
.... We'd also want to discuss low-level rendering API.
.... We're also trying to communicate with Dwango to gather feedback on bullet chatting use cases.

cpn: Yes, that would be great to gather alignment.
.... Do you know when you would like to meet again?

Huaqi: Next week is ok.

cpn: OK. I think this is very positive. More tightly defined scope. There's some overlap with what we've been exploring in terms of synchronized rendering scenarios in Media Timed Events. It may be that these use cases point at a common solution.

kaz: I will have a telco with Dwango as part of W3C's MRM activity. I'll ask them to join the next Bullet Chatting call. Also can provide some more supplementary information about the latest update to them (so that they'll be ready for the next call)

# Media Production use cases

cpn: We initiated this activity at TPAC this year.

pal: A little bit of background. A lot of pro content is now prepared in the cloud. Because of the habit of consumers to editing files in the cloud, this is now the new norm.
.... Professional edition has different requirements from user edition scenarios
.... We considered a workshop, contacted a number of organizations asking for their input. It's fair to say that there hasn't been an overwhelming amount of interest although I'm told that SMPTE members are looking into it and preparing a response.
.... Let's collect use cases and see if we can come up with a critical set of gaps.

Johnsim: What other organizations did you reach out to?

pal: We have a list somewhere.

Johnsim: Maybe we can chat offline.

pal: Sure.

Johnsim: Wondering about the questions.

<kaz> https://github.com/w3c/media-and-entertainment/blob/master/media-production/problem-statement.md problem statement

pal: We published a problem statement.

cpn: I know that I have some use cases to put into this. I've also done some outreach, and got enthusiastic response from at least one company moving to WebAssembly for editing approaches.
.... I'm hoping to engage them in the discussion.
.... It would be a good area to engage with people not already active in our group.
.... I'm actually feeling hopefully that in the next month or so, we can start building some document.

pal: Yes, I've talked to numerous people in the background who are struggling with pain points and applying workarounds to synchronize things on clients.
.... They have to create ISOBMFF multiplex files on the fly, which isn't a satisfactory solution.
.... The goal is to ask the question: do you have a problem creating media authoring applications on the Web?
.... We know some problems already: color spaces, synchronization, but I'm sure there are more.

Johnsim: Makes perfect sense. I'm hearing some of the same issues in the Media Capabilities issues (HDR, Wide gamut, etc.)
.... What requirements for changes on the Web platform? That's the question.

cpn: For color, there is the Color on the Web CG.

pal: With zero activity...

cpn: Chris Lilley is making progress on a gap analysis document.

Johnsim: Is there a heatmap of CGs/WG that are touching on media topics?

cpn: In my head, yes

<xfq> Color on the Web Community Group GitHub repo https://github.com/w3c/ColorWeb-CG

<xfq> High Dynamic Range and Wide Gamut Color on the Web https://w3c.github..io/ColorWeb-CG/

https://w3c.github.io/web-roadmaps/media/ Overview of Media Technologies for the Web

Francois: The Overview lists technologies and groups. I can extract the list of groups from there.

Johnsim: That would be useful, yes.
.... We can show that map to media companies who probably have pain points and do bespoke solutions around them. They may come up with a list of things that they would like to see evolve if we come with a clear perspective.

<scribe> ACTION: Francois to extract the list of "media groups" from the Overview of Media Technologies for the Web document.

cpn: Also note the video editing proposal from Microsoft that should be interesting to discuss in that space.

Johnsim: Can you share who made the proposal?

cpn: Sure, will look into it.

Johnsim: You wanna find out what's important for media companies. Heatmap might tell us what we're working on, but maybe we're not doing the right work. Need to be driven by companies actual needs than by our interest on their potential needs.

pal: Reason to have a workshop: make them realize that others share their issues.

<kaz> https://github.com/w3c/me-media-production/pull/1 Francois' pullrequest

Francois: I prepared a first outline, to ease collection of use cases. Suggest we merge it.

# Web Media API Integration Guidelines

cpn: We had a presentation from John Riviello last month on this. What is the current status?

JohnRiv: I put up an initial skeleton of the document, just to capture the categories. There was some discussion on the PR around narrowing the scope of the document.
.... [scribe got distracted and missed first couple of priories]

cpn: That was quite encouraging to get browser vendor's attention on some of the open question.
.... Is there anything stopping us from creating a new repo and get going?

JohnRiv: I don't think so.

cpn: Let's do that.

Francois: Just wondering about the editor?

JohnRiv: I can do it. I would strongly encourage others to step up, but happy to lead for now.

cpn: OK, let's create this new repository and start the process off.

kaz: Just wondering about how to proceed. We can talk next time.

cpn: Good question. There's clearly a relation between W3C and CTA WAVE for instance there.

# Future activities in M&E IG

cpn: No time to dig into that today, but food for thoughts.
.... How do we make progress on open topics, increase participation, explore new topics and how we relate to other groups such as the Media WG.

# TPAC 2020 planning

cpn: My understanding is that it is not yet decided whether the event will be physical or virtual.
.... If TPAC goes ahead, I would suggest that we do the usual 1-day meeting on Monday. We always have a good set of participants.
.... The real question is whether we have preferences for online meeting. How long? Spread over one or more weeks? Etc.
.... If people have thoughts, please let me know, and we can allocate the time.
.... TPAC may run longer than one week if virtual, we could organize short joint meetings with other groups.

[Actually, if virtual, there may not be any reason to meet "during" TPAC, the group could easily meet at other times of its choosing]

Song: Is Media Production going to be a separate thread? Or covered during next M&E IG?

pal: There is a GitHub repo already and it's been a recurring topic. Please get involved and happy to discuss!

cpn: We don't yet have a finalized agenda for next meeting. We could talk about media production.
.... Next meeting: June 2nd

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Francois to extract the list of "media groups" from the Overview of Media Technologies for the Web document.

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]