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Re: [tt] Notes from Kick-off teleconference.

From: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:39:14 +1100
Message-ID: <CAHp8n2=XWVL+-3Zvme6YqngDTmJTvtSN1P32EjRHazqx_zxfjA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Giuseppe Pascale <giuseppep@opera.com>
Cc: "public-web-and-tv@w3.org" <public-web-and-tv@w3.org>
Here are some more links for TextTrack / WebVTT:

Getting Started With the Track Element:
http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/track/basics/

An Introduction to WebVTT and <track>:
http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/an-introduction-to-webvtt-and-track/

WebVTT validator:
http://quuz.org/webvtt/

WebVTT implementations in browsers:
* IE 10:
http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Graphics/VideoCaptions/Default.html
* Chrome:
http://www.iandevlin.com/blog/2012/06/html5/google-chrome-supports-webvtt-subtitles
* Opera: my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2012/08/03/summer-core-update
* Firefox: making progress
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=629350

JavaScript polyfills for backwards compatibility: see list in
http://www.w3.org/community/texttracks/2012/08/23/webvtt-support-in-browsers/

Also note that the wiki at
http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts only talks about a 608
mapping to WebVTT - the spec at
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/669f6b95a488/608toVTT/608toVTT.htmlactually
also maps 708. Question to the group: would it be better to split
that into two specs?

HTH.

Cheers,
Silvia.

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:40 AM, Giuseppe Pascale <giuseppep@opera.com>wrote:

> Hi all,
> these are some rough notes from the TT kick-off call.
> Participants are welcome to point out errors or significant omissions.
>
>
> /g
>
>
> ================
>
>                                - DRAFT -
>
>                 Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference
>
> 26 Feb 2013
>
> Attendees
>
>    Present
>           pal, Kazuyuki, mike, Giuseppe, Mark_Vickers, Yosuke,
>           BobLund, glenn, clarke, Sheau
>
>    Regrets
>    Chair
>           pal
>
>    Scribe
>           giuseppe
>
> Contents
>
>      * [3]Topics
>          1. [4]Timed Text Task Force
>          2. [5]introduction
>      * [6]Summary of Action Items
>      ______________________________**____________________________
>
>    <trackbot> Date: 26 February 2013
>
> Timed Text Task Force
>
>    <kaz> Meeting: TT
>
> introduction
>
>    pal: kickoff meeting, we will try to work over mail but was
>    good to have an initial call
>
> [7]http://www.w3.org/2011/**webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Kick-**
> Off_Meeting_Agenda<http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Kick-Off_Meeting_Agenda>
>
>    pal: (going through the agenda)
>
> <pal> [8]http://www.w3.org/2011/**webtv/wiki/Tt<http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Tt>
>
>    pal: let's start with our objectives
>    ... let's review them
>    ... any comment? none
>
> <pal> [9]http://www.w3.org/2011/**webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts<http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts>
>
>    pal: first step is to try list all various efforts in this area
>    ... not sure what to write about webvtt since not very
>    familiar, so would like to ask others to fill it in
>
>    giuseppe: would be good to list all the info we have about
>    ongoing work, as far as it is public
>
>    mike: will provide a pointer to a collection of SMPTE document
>
>    all: providing links on IRC of onoging efforts
>
>    mark: what about europe, other than the DTG effort?
>
>    giuseppe: yes, EBU, already listed on the wiki
>
>    mark: what about Asia?
>
>    yosuke: Japan is using a spec based on original SMPTE standards
>    ... switching to new one is considered but a lot of effort is
>    required
>
>    mark: ok this is Japan, what about other areas? Korea/China?
>
>    yosuke: I'll investigate and send out links
>
>    mark: are there other TTML/SMPTE based profiles?
>    ... (or extensions?)
>
>    pal: I think netflix use some profile of ttml, not sure if is
>    public
>
>
>    bob: I think there is an effort for a TTML 2.0 spec, anybody
>    know more?
>
>    mark/giuseppe: no
>
>    glen: there is no 2.0, but a 1.1 work
>    ... and also an errata being worked on
>
>    bob: is it done in the TT WG?
>
>    glenn: yes
>
>    pal: ok, let's move on to the next agenda item, people can keep
>    adding link to the wiki if they have more
>
>    pal: next item is discuss use cases
>
>    pal: one use case is to rendering tt in UA
>    ... Ultraviolet have decided to use a subset of smpte-tt
>
> <pal>[25]http://www.w3.org/**2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_**Use_Cases<http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Use_Cases>
>
>    pal: maybe not exactly a subset but anyway based on that
>    ... there is a link in the wiki
>    ... since ultraviolet has a larg number of members and a large
>    catalog
>    ... I would expect large support for this format
>
>    giuseppe: is important to distinguish between the browser and
>    the player on the TV, they are usually not from the same
>    manufacturer
>
>    glenn: this cause problems when trying to use new HTML5 API for
>    multitrack
>    ... what do people think about TTML support in browsers?
>    ... I think only IE supports it
>
>    glenn: I made a proposal to webkit to add TTML support
>    ... some negative reponses
>    ... I would like to ask people to also comment on that bug
>
>    glenn: another useful task would would be to try to map the
>    html5 interfaces also for TTML or other formats
>
>    mark: isn't this part of the TT WG charter? Isn't a deliverable
>    of that group?
>
>    glenn: yes but maybe this TF could provide some input
>
>    pal: contributing to webkit is probably out of scope for this
>    group, but providing a mapping could be in scope
>
>    mark: the most useful mapping would be the smpte-tt one since
>    it is in the regulation
>
>    giuseppe: is it useful to ask other groups planning to use
>    HTMl5 how they plan to solve this issue?
>
>    mark: we want to reach all devices, but we are facing issues
>    due to this fragmentation
>    ... all content companies in us are using smpte-tt, but there
>    are devices only supporting webvtt
>    ... so we have to do translation
>    ... we would like to see the 2 groups to work togheter to make
>    the spec closer
>    ... anyway we shoudl focus on the requirements first, later we
>    could investigate the technical solutions
>
>    glenn: I'm not sure that supporting multiple formats is costly,
>    devices support multiple different formats for other features
>
>    giuseppe: what are the objections from the webkit community?
>
>    glenn: from my understanding is just about avoid multiple
>    formats
>    ... there is also a comment that would be difficult to
>    implement
>    ... probably comment based due to the lack of open
>    implementations
>
>    pal: mark/glenn can you start writing down something about the
>    current issues, for the group to review?
>
>    glenn: yes
>
>    mark: yes
>
>
> List of standards or other info mentioned during the call
>
> <Mark_Vic_> WebVTT "Living Standard:
> [11]http://dev.w3.org/html5/**webvtt/ <http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/>
>
> <Mark_Vic_> Web Media Text Tracks Community Group (Working on WebVTT):
> [12]http://www.w3.org/**community/texttracks/<http://www.w3.org/community/texttracks/>
>
> <pal> [10]http://dev.w3.org/html5/**webvtt/<http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/>
>
> <yosuke> FYI: ISDB-Tmm (mobile DTV service) has adopted TTML. NTT-Docomo
> and some CE manufactures has already released smart phones with TTML
> enabled HTML5 browsers.
> [28]http://en.wikipedia.org/**wiki/ISDB#ISDB-Tmm<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISDB#ISDB-Tmm>
>
> <Mark_Vic_> WebVTT in WebM:
> [13]http://wiki.webmproject.**org/webm-metadata/temporal-**
> metadata/webvtt-in-webm<http://wiki.webmproject.org/webm-metadata/temporal-metadata/webvtt-in-webm>
>
> <Mark_Vic_> WebVTT in Apple’s HTTP Live Streaming:
> [14]http://tools.ietf.org/**html/draft-pantos-http-live-**streaming-09<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pantos-http-live-streaming-09>
>
> <glenn> [27]https://bugs.webkit.org/**show_bug.cgi?id=110479<https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=110479>
>
> <mike> SMPTE 2052-x series for SMPTE-TT,
> [22]http://standards.smpte.**org/search?fulltext=2052&**
> smptes-status=in-force&submit=**yes&content-group=smptes&x=0&**y=0<http://standards.smpte.org/search?fulltext=2052&smptes-status=in-force&submit=yes&content-group=smptes&x=0&y=0>
>
> <mike> CEA Technical Report (TR-3) Closed Captioning in IP-delivered Video
> Programming,
> [18]http://www.ce.org/**Standards/Standard-Listings/**
> R4-3-Television-Data-Systems-**Subcommittee/CEA-TR-3.aspx<http://www.ce.org/Standards/Standard-Listings/R4-3-Television-Data-Systems-Subcommittee/CEA-TR-3.aspx>
>
> <glenn> [19]http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/**NOTE-ttml10-sdp-us-20130205/<http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-ttml10-sdp-us-20130205/>
>
> <mike> BBC YouView profile of TTML,
> [26]https://industry.youview.**com/resources/YouView_Core_**
> Technical_Specification_1.0.**pdf#page=118<https://industry.youview.com/resources/YouView_Core_Technical_Specification_1.0.pdf#page=118>
>
> <Mark_Vic_> Conversion of 608/708 captions to WebVTT:
> [15]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/**text-tracks/raw-file/**669f6b95a488/608toVTT/
> **608toVTT.html<https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/669f6b95a488/608toVTT/608toVTT.html>
>
>
> <BobLund> 608 mapping to webvtt
> [16]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/**text-tracks/raw-file/**669f6b95a488/608toVTT/
> **608toVTT.html<https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/669f6b95a488/608toVTT/608toVTT.html>
>
> <pal>[21]https://industry.**youview.com/resources/YouView_**
> Core_Technical_Specification_**1.0.pdf#page=118<https://industry.youview.com/resources/YouView_Core_Technical_Specification_1.0.pdf#page=118>
>
> <sheau> Found this link on ARIB, but it's in Japanese
> [23]http://www.arib.or.jp/**english/html/overview/doc/2-**STD-B36v2_3.pdf<http://www.arib.or.jp/english/html/overview/doc/2-STD-B36v2_3.pdf>
>
> <yosuke> That's right, Sheau. Arib has English version of B-37 but not for
> B-36.
>
> <yosuke> Here is a part of the spec of CC for Japanese DTV:
> [20]http://www.arib.or.jp/**english/html/overview/doc/6-**
> STD-B37v2_4-E1.pdf<http://www.arib.or.jp/english/html/overview/doc/6-STD-B37v2_4-E1.pdf>
>
> <mike> DECE/UV profile of TTML:
> [17]http://www.uvvu.com/docs/**public/20121102_1.0.5_Tech_**
> Spec_Package-Public.zip<http://www.uvvu.com/docs/public/20121102_1.0.5_Tech_Spec_Package-Public.zip>
>
> --
> Giuseppe Pascale
> Product Manager TV & Connected Devices
> Opera Software
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:40:05 UTC

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