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[tt] Notes from Kick-off teleconference.

From: Giuseppe Pascale <giuseppep@opera.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:40:53 +0100
To: "public-web-and-tv@w3.org" <public-web-and-tv@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.ws4duflx6ugkrk@giuseppep-x220>
Hi all,
these are some rough notes from the TT kick-off call.
Participants are welcome to point out errors or significant omissions.


/g


================

                                - DRAFT -

                 Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference

26 Feb 2013

Attendees

    Present
           pal, Kazuyuki, mike, Giuseppe, Mark_Vickers, Yosuke,
           BobLund, glenn, clarke, Sheau

    Regrets
    Chair
           pal

    Scribe
           giuseppe

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Timed Text Task Force
          2. [5]introduction
      * [6]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 26 February 2013

Timed Text Task Force

    <kaz> Meeting: TT

introduction

    pal: kickoff meeting, we will try to work over mail but was
    good to have an initial call

[7]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Kick-Off_Meeting_Agenda

    pal: (going through the agenda)

<pal> [8]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Tt

    pal: let's start with our objectives
    ... let's review them
    ... any comment? none

<pal> [9]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts

    pal: first step is to try list all various efforts in this area
    ... not sure what to write about webvtt since not very
    familiar, so would like to ask others to fill it in

    giuseppe: would be good to list all the info we have about
    ongoing work, as far as it is public

    mike: will provide a pointer to a collection of SMPTE document

    all: providing links on IRC of onoging efforts

    mark: what about europe, other than the DTG effort?

    giuseppe: yes, EBU, already listed on the wiki

    mark: what about Asia?

    yosuke: Japan is using a spec based on original SMPTE standards
    ... switching to new one is considered but a lot of effort is
    required

    mark: ok this is Japan, what about other areas? Korea/China?

    yosuke: I'll investigate and send out links

    mark: are there other TTML/SMPTE based profiles?
    ... (or extensions?)

    pal: I think netflix use some profile of ttml, not sure if is
    public


    bob: I think there is an effort for a TTML 2.0 spec, anybody
    know more?

    mark/giuseppe: no

    glen: there is no 2.0, but a 1.1 work
    ... and also an errata being worked on

    bob: is it done in the TT WG?

    glenn: yes

    pal: ok, let's move on to the next agenda item, people can keep
    adding link to the wiki if they have more

    pal: next item is discuss use cases

    pal: one use case is to rendering tt in UA
    ... Ultraviolet have decided to use a subset of smpte-tt

<pal>[25]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Use_Cases

    pal: maybe not exactly a subset but anyway based on that
    ... there is a link in the wiki
    ... since ultraviolet has a larg number of members and a large
    catalog
    ... I would expect large support for this format

    giuseppe: is important to distinguish between the browser and
    the player on the TV, they are usually not from the same
    manufacturer

    glenn: this cause problems when trying to use new HTML5 API for
    multitrack
    ... what do people think about TTML support in browsers?
    ... I think only IE supports it

    glenn: I made a proposal to webkit to add TTML support
    ... some negative reponses
    ... I would like to ask people to also comment on that bug

    glenn: another useful task would would be to try to map the
    html5 interfaces also for TTML or other formats

    mark: isn't this part of the TT WG charter? Isn't a deliverable
    of that group?

    glenn: yes but maybe this TF could provide some input

    pal: contributing to webkit is probably out of scope for this
    group, but providing a mapping could be in scope

    mark: the most useful mapping would be the smpte-tt one since
    it is in the regulation

    giuseppe: is it useful to ask other groups planning to use
    HTMl5 how they plan to solve this issue?

    mark: we want to reach all devices, but we are facing issues
    due to this fragmentation
    ... all content companies in us are using smpte-tt, but there
    are devices only supporting webvtt
    ... so we have to do translation
    ... we would like to see the 2 groups to work togheter to make
    the spec closer
    ... anyway we shoudl focus on the requirements first, later we
    could investigate the technical solutions

    glenn: I'm not sure that supporting multiple formats is costly,
    devices support multiple different formats for other features

    giuseppe: what are the objections from the webkit community?

    glenn: from my understanding is just about avoid multiple
    formats
    ... there is also a comment that would be difficult to
    implement
    ... probably comment based due to the lack of open
    implementations

    pal: mark/glenn can you start writing down something about the
    current issues, for the group to review?

    glenn: yes

    mark: yes


List of standards or other info mentioned during the call

<Mark_Vic_> WebVTT "Living Standard:
[11]http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/

<Mark_Vic_> Web Media Text Tracks Community Group (Working on WebVTT):
[12]http://www.w3.org/community/texttracks/

<pal> [10]http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/

<yosuke> FYI: ISDB-Tmm (mobile DTV service) has adopted TTML. NTT-Docomo  
and some CE manufactures has already released smart phones with TTML  
enabled HTML5 browsers.
[28]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISDB#ISDB-Tmm

<Mark_Vic_> WebVTT in WebM:
[13]http://wiki.webmproject.org/webm-metadata/temporal-metadata/webvtt-in-webm

<Mark_Vic_> WebVTT in Appleā€™s HTTP Live Streaming:
[14]http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pantos-http-live-streaming-09

<glenn> [27]https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=110479

<mike> SMPTE 2052-x series for SMPTE-TT,
[22]http://standards.smpte.org/search?fulltext=2052&smptes-status=in-force&submit=yes&content-group=smptes&x=0&y=0

<mike> CEA Technical Report (TR-3) Closed Captioning in IP-delivered Video  
Programming,
[18]http://www.ce.org/Standards/Standard-Listings/R4-3-Television-Data-Systems-Subcommittee/CEA-TR-3.aspx

<glenn> [19]http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-ttml10-sdp-us-20130205/

<mike> BBC YouView profile of TTML,
[26]https://industry.youview.com/resources/YouView_Core_Technical_Specification_1.0.pdf#page=118

<Mark_Vic_> Conversion of 608/708 captions to WebVTT:
[15]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/669f6b95a488/608toVTT/608toVTT.html


<BobLund> 608 mapping to webvtt
[16]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/669f6b95a488/608toVTT/608toVTT.html

<pal>[21]https://industry.youview.com/resources/YouView_Core_Technical_Specification_1.0.pdf#page=118

<sheau> Found this link on ARIB, but it's in Japanese
[23]http://www.arib.or.jp/english/html/overview/doc/2-STD-B36v2_3.pdf

<yosuke> That's right, Sheau. Arib has English version of B-37 but not for  
B-36.

<yosuke> Here is a part of the spec of CC for Japanese DTV:
[20]http://www.arib.or.jp/english/html/overview/doc/6-STD-B37v2_4-E1.pdf

<mike> DECE/UV profile of TTML:
[17]http://www.uvvu.com/docs/public/20121102_1.0.5_Tech_Spec_Package-Public.zip

-- 
Giuseppe Pascale
Product Manager TV & Connected Devices
Opera Software
Received on Tuesday, 26 February 2013 15:41:22 UTC

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