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Re: [tt] Notes from Kick-off teleconference.

From: Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 09:26:39 -0800
Message-ID: <CAF_7JxCDddN7iAe9DBFdg3de7iAZnMAhdgCaz_9J05_0XsSRbA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
Cc: Giuseppe Pascale <giuseppep@opera.com>, "public-web-and-tv@w3.org" <public-web-and-tv@w3.org>
Hi Silvia,

Thanks for the links. I have updated the wiki at
http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts#TTML-based_efforts_and_specifications.

Looking forward to your participation.

Best,

-- Pierre

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer
<silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here are some more links for TextTrack / WebVTT:
>
> Getting Started With the Track Element:
> http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/track/basics/
>
> An Introduction to WebVTT and <track>:
> http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/an-introduction-to-webvtt-and-track/
>
> WebVTT validator:
> http://quuz.org/webvtt/
>
> WebVTT implementations in browsers:
> * IE 10:
> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Graphics/VideoCaptions/Default.html
> * Chrome:
> http://www.iandevlin.com/blog/2012/06/html5/google-chrome-supports-webvtt-subtitles
> * Opera: my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2012/08/03/summer-core-update
> * Firefox: making progress
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=629350
>
> JavaScript polyfills for backwards compatibility: see list in
> http://www.w3.org/community/texttracks/2012/08/23/webvtt-support-in-browsers/
>
> Also note that the wiki at
> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts only talks about a 608
> mapping to WebVTT - the spec at
> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/669f6b95a488/608toVTT/608toVTT.html
> actually also maps 708. Question to the group: would it be better to split
> that into two specs?
>
> HTH.
>
> Cheers,
> Silvia.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:40 AM, Giuseppe Pascale <giuseppep@opera.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>> these are some rough notes from the TT kick-off call.
>> Participants are welcome to point out errors or significant omissions.
>>
>>
>> /g
>>
>>
>> ================
>>
>>                                - DRAFT -
>>
>>                 Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference
>>
>> 26 Feb 2013
>>
>> Attendees
>>
>>    Present
>>           pal, Kazuyuki, mike, Giuseppe, Mark_Vickers, Yosuke,
>>           BobLund, glenn, clarke, Sheau
>>
>>    Regrets
>>    Chair
>>           pal
>>
>>    Scribe
>>           giuseppe
>>
>> Contents
>>
>>      * [3]Topics
>>          1. [4]Timed Text Task Force
>>          2. [5]introduction
>>      * [6]Summary of Action Items
>>      __________________________________________________________
>>
>>    <trackbot> Date: 26 February 2013
>>
>> Timed Text Task Force
>>
>>    <kaz> Meeting: TT
>>
>> introduction
>>
>>    pal: kickoff meeting, we will try to work over mail but was
>>    good to have an initial call
>>
>> [7]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Kick-Off_Meeting_Agenda
>>
>>    pal: (going through the agenda)
>>
>> <pal> [8]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Tt
>>
>>    pal: let's start with our objectives
>>    ... let's review them
>>    ... any comment? none
>>
>> <pal> [9]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts
>>
>>    pal: first step is to try list all various efforts in this area
>>    ... not sure what to write about webvtt since not very
>>    familiar, so would like to ask others to fill it in
>>
>>    giuseppe: would be good to list all the info we have about
>>    ongoing work, as far as it is public
>>
>>    mike: will provide a pointer to a collection of SMPTE document
>>
>>    all: providing links on IRC of onoging efforts
>>
>>    mark: what about europe, other than the DTG effort?
>>
>>    giuseppe: yes, EBU, already listed on the wiki
>>
>>    mark: what about Asia?
>>
>>    yosuke: Japan is using a spec based on original SMPTE standards
>>    ... switching to new one is considered but a lot of effort is
>>    required
>>
>>    mark: ok this is Japan, what about other areas? Korea/China?
>>
>>    yosuke: I'll investigate and send out links
>>
>>    mark: are there other TTML/SMPTE based profiles?
>>    ... (or extensions?)
>>
>>    pal: I think netflix use some profile of ttml, not sure if is
>>    public
>>
>>
>>    bob: I think there is an effort for a TTML 2.0 spec, anybody
>>    know more?
>>
>>    mark/giuseppe: no
>>
>>    glen: there is no 2.0, but a 1.1 work
>>    ... and also an errata being worked on
>>
>>    bob: is it done in the TT WG?
>>
>>    glenn: yes
>>
>>    pal: ok, let's move on to the next agenda item, people can keep
>>    adding link to the wiki if they have more
>>
>>    pal: next item is discuss use cases
>>
>>    pal: one use case is to rendering tt in UA
>>    ... Ultraviolet have decided to use a subset of smpte-tt
>>
>> <pal>[25]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Use_Cases
>>
>>    pal: maybe not exactly a subset but anyway based on that
>>    ... there is a link in the wiki
>>    ... since ultraviolet has a larg number of members and a large
>>    catalog
>>    ... I would expect large support for this format
>>
>>    giuseppe: is important to distinguish between the browser and
>>    the player on the TV, they are usually not from the same
>>    manufacturer
>>
>>    glenn: this cause problems when trying to use new HTML5 API for
>>    multitrack
>>    ... what do people think about TTML support in browsers?
>>    ... I think only IE supports it
>>
>>    glenn: I made a proposal to webkit to add TTML support
>>    ... some negative reponses
>>    ... I would like to ask people to also comment on that bug
>>
>>    glenn: another useful task would would be to try to map the
>>    html5 interfaces also for TTML or other formats
>>
>>    mark: isn't this part of the TT WG charter? Isn't a deliverable
>>    of that group?
>>
>>    glenn: yes but maybe this TF could provide some input
>>
>>    pal: contributing to webkit is probably out of scope for this
>>    group, but providing a mapping could be in scope
>>
>>    mark: the most useful mapping would be the smpte-tt one since
>>    it is in the regulation
>>
>>    giuseppe: is it useful to ask other groups planning to use
>>    HTMl5 how they plan to solve this issue?
>>
>>    mark: we want to reach all devices, but we are facing issues
>>    due to this fragmentation
>>    ... all content companies in us are using smpte-tt, but there
>>    are devices only supporting webvtt
>>    ... so we have to do translation
>>    ... we would like to see the 2 groups to work togheter to make
>>    the spec closer
>>    ... anyway we shoudl focus on the requirements first, later we
>>    could investigate the technical solutions
>>
>>    glenn: I'm not sure that supporting multiple formats is costly,
>>    devices support multiple different formats for other features
>>
>>    giuseppe: what are the objections from the webkit community?
>>
>>    glenn: from my understanding is just about avoid multiple
>>    formats
>>    ... there is also a comment that would be difficult to
>>    implement
>>    ... probably comment based due to the lack of open
>>    implementations
>>
>>    pal: mark/glenn can you start writing down something about the
>>    current issues, for the group to review?
>>
>>    glenn: yes
>>
>>    mark: yes
>>
>>
>> List of standards or other info mentioned during the call
>>
>> <Mark_Vic_> WebVTT "Living Standard:
>> [11]http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/
>>
>> <Mark_Vic_> Web Media Text Tracks Community Group (Working on WebVTT):
>> [12]http://www.w3.org/community/texttracks/
>>
>> <pal> [10]http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/
>>
>> <yosuke> FYI: ISDB-Tmm (mobile DTV service) has adopted TTML. NTT-Docomo
>> and some CE manufactures has already released smart phones with TTML enabled
>> HTML5 browsers.
>> [28]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISDB#ISDB-Tmm
>>
>> <Mark_Vic_> WebVTT in WebM:
>>
>> [13]http://wiki.webmproject.org/webm-metadata/temporal-metadata/webvtt-in-webm
>>
>> <Mark_Vic_> WebVTT in Apple’s HTTP Live Streaming:
>> [14]http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pantos-http-live-streaming-09
>>
>> <glenn> [27]https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=110479
>>
>> <mike> SMPTE 2052-x series for SMPTE-TT,
>>
>> [22]http://standards.smpte.org/search?fulltext=2052&smptes-status=in-force&submit=yes&content-group=smptes&x=0&y=0
>>
>> <mike> CEA Technical Report (TR-3) Closed Captioning in IP-delivered Video
>> Programming,
>>
>> [18]http://www.ce.org/Standards/Standard-Listings/R4-3-Television-Data-Systems-Subcommittee/CEA-TR-3.aspx
>>
>> <glenn> [19]http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-ttml10-sdp-us-20130205/
>>
>> <mike> BBC YouView profile of TTML,
>>
>> [26]https://industry.youview.com/resources/YouView_Core_Technical_Specification_1.0.pdf#page=118
>>
>> <Mark_Vic_> Conversion of 608/708 captions to WebVTT:
>>
>> [15]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/669f6b95a488/608toVTT/608toVTT.html
>>
>>
>> <BobLund> 608 mapping to webvtt
>>
>> [16]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/669f6b95a488/608toVTT/608toVTT.html
>>
>>
>> <pal>[21]https://industry.youview.com/resources/YouView_Core_Technical_Specification_1.0.pdf#page=118
>>
>> <sheau> Found this link on ARIB, but it's in Japanese
>> [23]http://www.arib.or.jp/english/html/overview/doc/2-STD-B36v2_3.pdf
>>
>> <yosuke> That's right, Sheau. Arib has English version of B-37 but not for
>> B-36.
>>
>> <yosuke> Here is a part of the spec of CC for Japanese DTV:
>> [20]http://www.arib.or.jp/english/html/overview/doc/6-STD-B37v2_4-E1.pdf
>>
>> <mike> DECE/UV profile of TTML:
>>
>> [17]http://www.uvvu.com/docs/public/20121102_1.0.5_Tech_Spec_Package-Public.zip
>>
>> --
>> Giuseppe Pascale
>> Product Manager TV & Connected Devices
>> Opera Software
>>
>
Received on Wednesday, 27 February 2013 17:27:29 UTC

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