- From: Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 03:16:49 +0900
- To: public-web-and-tv@w3.org
available at:
http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-webtv-minutes.html
also as text below.
Thanks for taking these minutes, Jason!
---
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Media Pipeline Task Force telephone conference
08 Dec 2011
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/Agenda_Telco_8th_December_2011
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-webtv-irc
Attendees
Present
Kazuyuki_Ashimura, Bob_Lund, Glenn_Adams, Mark_Watson,
Jan_Lindquist, Clarke_Stevens, Duncan_Rowden, Franck_Denoual,
Philipp_Hoschka, Russell_Berkoff, Juhani_Huttunen,
Mark_Vickers, Jason_Lewis, Eric_Winkelman, Graham_Clift,
Kilroy_Hughes
Regrets
Chair
Clarke
Scribe
Jason
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Comments on Jan's proposal
2. [6]OIPF input
3. [7]Adaptive delivery
4. [8]Schedule
* [9]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
Comments on Jan's proposal
Clarke: let's get started, agenda. First item is look at Jan's
comments
Jan: there is one more change; split one error..is that ok?
Clark: Discuss Separating Auth errors from other
Mark: finishing off proposal, work on messaging and will post on
wiki in next couple days
OIPF input
<kaz> [10]Jan's write-up
[10]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011Dec/0008.html
Clarke: next item is from Jan on OIPF
Jan: There are 3 documents that are referenced...
... 1 - document about architecture
... they use Marlin ...
Clarke: I've put up pages on Adaptive bitrate
<ph> [11]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/ADR_Error_Codes
[11] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/ADR_Error_Codes
<ph>
[12]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/Content_Protection_Error_
Codes
[12]
http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/Content_Protection_Error_Codes
mav: What is the IP around using OIPF?
... What is the IP around using OIPF?
Jan: there is precedence with a license
Clarke: what is procedure/process for referencing outside documents?
Philipp: We should use the document?
mav: no, we should use ideas and incorporate them...
... no, we should use ideas and incorporate them...
ph: We need to be sure we're interested enough to use doc/ideas
Clarke: some preliminary investigation would be good
<kaz> [13]W3C Patent Policy
[13]
http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20040205/#def-essential-exclusions
glenn: why did we wish to incorporate ideas, instead of reference
sections in OIPF?
<kaz> ACTION: hoschka to look at IP issues with referencing OIPF
documents [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-webtv-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-83 - Look at IP issues with referencing
OIPF documents [on Philipp Hoschka - due 2011-12-15].
jan: There is a precedence with OMA
juhani: section on patent policy that are referenced
kaz: we should clarify what we want to refer to/include
Clark: Juhani work with Jan to get guidance and clarify what will be
included
<Juhani> "Juhani work with Jan to get guidance and clarify what will
be included" - I think this is someone else than Juhani this action
was appointed to ...
<glenn> glenn: notes that section 8.2 of PP allows exclusion of
claims based on "mere incorporation by reference"
<kaz> ACTION: hoschka to work with Jan to get guidance and clarify
what will be included [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-webtv-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-84 - Work with Jan to get guidance and
clarify what will be included [on Philipp Hoschka - due 2011-12-15].
Adaptive delivery
Clarke: next agenda item, WHATWG...around adaptive bitrate proposal
<Clarke> Adaptive delivery page:
[16]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/ADR_Error_Codes
[16] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/ADR_Error_Codes
Clarke: also created page to summarize this
Duncan: don't read too much into the source
<ph> page should probably link to source in whatwg
Clarke: organized into sections around params, error codes,
feedback, new apis
Duncan: would be useful to have 'bytesReceived' under feedback
... bytes received is more explicit
Clarke: lets look at items.. parameter, maxLevel, it is the bitrate
level
Duncan: This proposal is moving towards remote control approach that
JS can influence bitrate selection
MarkW: need lots of data and feedback in JS to enable heuristics to
make good decisions for bitrate selection
Duncan: added seconds on next segment to help logic
<ph> link to original whatwg page?
MarkW: it's unclear that we have enough information and details in
proposal
Clarke: we should discuss the 3 architectures/modes
MarkW: concern over mode three about sending video data through JS
<ph> whatwg source seems to be
[17]http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Adaptive_Streaming
[17] http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Adaptive_Streaming
MarkW: the google approach does use AJAX to retrieve data
Bob: there is same issue that useragent needs to expose metrics
regardless
MarkW: approach 3 is easier, but approach 2 the useragent is aware
of bitrates and manifests
mav: video append would be useful for smooth playlists or inserting
ads
<ph> +1 on mav
<mark> +q
kaz: we should include the original resource of WHATWG working group
as Philipp pointed out, shouldn't we?
<kaz> [18]http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Adaptive_Streaming
[18] http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Adaptive_Streaming
<duncanr> and [19]http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Video_Metrics
[19] http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Video_Metrics
jason: is the 'currentSegmentDownload' a best guess of seconds based
percentage? or real seconds?
Duncan: best guess based on average bitrate
Schedule
Clarke: deadline of Dec 15 for HTML5
... we should work offline to get our proposal tight and use
wikipage to send recommendations
MarkW: unlikely that timeframe is possible
... benefit of approach 3 is enable experimentation....
... only add details to approach 1 to just report bitrate selected
Clarke: we could get everything into html5, or try to influence
implementations that drive back to standards
Duncan: setting the level valuable, and querying the available
levels
Kilroy: there need to be ability to set max bitrate ceiling, but
beyond that requires more event feedback to enable heuristics
... at early state of adaptive streaming, enabling apporach 3 (all
in JS) gives advantages
MarkW: unlikely HTML5 group may accept
<ph> proposed resolution: go for option 1
<mav> Kilroy, do you think option 3, as you described, can be
proposed by 12/15?
MarkW: timing of socializing this is issue
Clarke: let's continue the discussion using the mailing list and the
wiki by Tuesday
<mav> What exactly has to be complete by 12/15? Does the proposal
need to be finalized? Socialized?
<kaz> mav and Clarke, maybe we should check with Paul Cotton as well
[ adjourned ]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: hoschka to look at IP issues with referencing OIPF
documents [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-webtv-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: hoschka to work with Jan to get guidance and clarify
what will be included [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-webtv-minutes.html#action03]
[End of minutes]
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--
Kaz Ashimura, W3C Staff Contact for Web&TV, MMI and Voice
Tel: +81 466 49 1170
Received on Thursday, 8 December 2011 18:17:37 UTC