- From: Kerstin Probiesch <k.probiesch@googlemail.com>
- Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 14:08:16 +0100
- To: "'Shadi Abou-Zahra'" <shadi@w3.org>, "'Eric Velleman'" <evelleman@bartimeus.nl>
- Cc: <public-wai-evaltf@w3.org>
Hi all, sorry. I also disagree with item 9. As I understood the discussion there wasn't an agreement about, that the claim always sets the scope. As I remember the discussion we found some cases for exceptions (Shadi mentioned). Item 9 is - as already mentioned in the note - not conform with WCAG conformance statement. Which would mean that an evaluation like this wouldn't be valid. --Kerstin > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Shadi Abou-Zahra [mailto:shadi@w3.org] > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2012 13:58 > An: Eric Velleman > Cc: public-wai-evaltf@w3.org > Betreff: Re: New version Methodology > > I also disagree with the addition to section 3 pointed out in item 9. > > I think we can allow website owners to define what the target website > is > (an entire site, sub-site, application, portlet, etc.) but I think we > agreed that the evaluation then applies to that entire website. > > It should still be possible to *report* what parts of the website do > not > conform, but our methodology should not conflict with WCAG. > > I think this also relates to item 3 about reporting Success Criteria > met > beyond the target level of conformance. The reporting section may be > more key than currently assumed... > > Best, > Shadi > > > On 9.2.2012 13:15, Velleman, Eric wrote: > > Hello Richard, > > > > In the discussion the general agreement was that the conformance > claim sets the scope of the evaluation. This means that if a certain > technology is chosen for the conformance claim, this could exclude > parts of a complete process because the complete process is not what > the evaluator would be looking at. If we say that all parts of the > complete process should be in the evaluation this would limit the > flexibility of the website owner to state the conformance claim for the > evaluation. > > > > I do agree that in the current form, any conformance claim would end > up being non conformant with WCAG2.0. This is why I added the question > mark.. > > > > Kindest regards, > > > > Eric > > ========================= > > Eric Velleman > > Technisch directeur > > Stichting Accessibility > > Universiteit Twente > > > > Oudenoord 325, > > 3513EP Utrecht (The Netherlands); > > Tel: +31 (0)30 - 2398270 > > www.accessibility.nl / www.wabcluster.org / www.econformance.eu / > > www.game-accessibility.com/ www.eaccessplus.eu > > > > Lees onze disclaimer: www.accessibility.nl/algemeen/disclaimer > > Accessibility is Member van het W3C > > ========================= > > > > ________________________________________ > > Van: RichardWarren [richard.warren@userite.com] > > Verzonden: donderdag 9 februari 2012 13:00 > > Aan: Velleman, Eric; public-wai-evaltf@w3.org > > Onderwerp: Re: New version Methodology > > > > Dear All, > > > > I am sorry - but I missed the discussions about excluding parts of a > process > > ( Point 9 in Eric's email). Surely this is the wrong way round. You > cannot > > exclude part of a **process** because, by doing so, you then stop it > being > > a process. > > > > We must not confuse our terminology. It is possible to exclude parts > of a > > *website* from an evaluation because that is not a process that has > to be > > followed. > > > > You can evaluate individual parts of a process and say that "this > part is > > compliant" so that developers can make progress, but for the process > itself > > it is the whole process from beginning to end that must be compliant, > > otherwise it is not a compliant process. > > > > > > Richard > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Velleman, Eric > > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:39 PM > > To: public-wai-evaltf@w3.org > > Subject: New version Methodology > > > > Dear EvalTF, > > > > Tomorrow is our next Telco. I am looking forward to speaking to you > all > > after the many discussions in the last weeks. As an overview in this > mail, > > below are the changes I made to the new version. I only just > delivered the > > new version to Shadi, so I hope we can have a look at it during > tomorrows > > Telco. > > > > Date of new version: 20120209 > > > > Changes to the document: > > > > 1. Because a sample only covers a small portion of a website and > because we > > want to evaluate conformance to WCAG 2.0, the entire sample should be > > without failures of Success criteria. This means that any failure > found > > leads to non-conformance of the website regardless of the impact or > barrier. > > - Done > > > > 2. The section on error margin is deleted. This margin is now set to > 0%. > > - Done > > > > 3. Added the requirement in 6.1 that the conformance claim should > provide a > > “list of success criteria beyond the level of conformance claimed > that have > > been met. This information should be provided in a form that users > can use, > > preferably machine-readable metadata” (from: > > http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG/#conformance-claims). > > - Done > > > > 4. We should include the possibility for website owners to fix > incidental > > errors without a totally new evaluation being necessary. Inserted > into 5.5 > > - Done > > > > 5. Leonie adds to the previous: My suggestion is that after the > website > > owner has fixed the failed criteria, it isn't only the original > sample of > > pages that is tested. Instead it's a combination of pages from the > original > > sample and randomly selected new pages. Is that ok? Inserted into 5.5 > > - Done > > > > ------ > > Clause 3 > > ------ > > > > 6. Significant changes to the scope section to reflect the > discussion. Our > > discussion makes the conformance claim the parent of the scope. This > means > > that the scope of an Evaluation is not necessarily the full website, > but > > flexible as discussed. This should then be more in line with the > definition > > of website that we plan to use. > > - This means that the possibility to exclude web pages from the scope > is no > > longer required if the scope is set by the conformance claim as > proposed > > (clause 3). I took the text out. This section is only usefull if the > > Methodology focuses on full websites (so it would be possible to make > > exclusions for people who just want to evaluate a part of a website). > > - Done > > > > 7. If scope is set by the conformance claim, then the following > subclauses > > are not longer necessary: > > - Base URI (out) > > - Key Functionalities (clause 3.4)(out) > > - Perception and function (out) > > - Alternative (out) > > - Webpages behind authorization (out) > > - Technologies used on the web pages (out) > > - Dividing the scope into multiple evaluations (out) > > All taken out because not necessary if the conformance claim is the > parent > > of the scope. > > - Done > > > > 8. Complete processes are still necessary (in). I also kept the > definitions > > of resource and complete process in the document. > > - Done > > > > 9. As requested by the group, I added (below the definitions in > clause 3): > > “It is possible to exclude particular sections of a website from the > scope > > even though they are part of a complete process. Examples for > possible > > exclusion are: user generated content, wiki’s, bulletin boards etc.“ > > @@@Note that we are less strict here than WCAG2.0 and conformance > statements > > made would not conform to WCAG2.0. > > Also added: “The Evaluation can also focus only on specific > technologies > > excluding all other technologies used.” > > @@@Note that this is also less strict than WCAG2.0 and would not > conform > > with WCAG conformance statement. > > - Done > > > > ------ > > Clause 5 > > ------ > > > > 10. Deleted subclause 5.5 Error Margin > > - Done > > ------ > > Clause 6 > > ------ > > > > 11. Added requirement on conformance in 6.1 (are we sure we want > that? It > > would require to look at more than just the level claimed=more > time=more > > money) > > - Done > > > > Kindest regards, > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Shadi Abou-Zahra - http://www.w3.org/People/shadi/ > Activity Lead, W3C/WAI International Program Office > Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group (ERT WG) > Research and Development Working Group (RDWG)
Received on Thursday, 9 February 2012 13:08:24 UTC