- From: Kim Patch <kim@scriven.com>
- Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 17:54:34 -0500
- To: "Ku, JaEun Jemma" <jku@uic.edu>, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, WAI Coordination Call <public-wai-cc@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <7f01ad82-0e0c-9a6c-2684-b7421830b234@scriven.com>
Hi JaEun, I don't know anyone at Zoom, but I've put in a feature request at https://zoom.us/Feed. Maybe if a bunch of us request it, it would help. Cheers, Kim On 2/23/2023 5:06 PM, Ku, JaEun Jemma wrote: > > Kim, > > This is the exact reason I raised the issue to the group. Currently we > cannot copy and paste from the transcript at all. > > “I'm still thinking that the most practical way to use automatic > transcription may just be to make it available in a way that the > scribe can easily consult and maybe cut-and-paste from during > scribing. Seems like this would make scribing easier.” > > Best, > > ** > > *JaEun Jemma Ku, Ph.D.* > > Director of IT Accessibility > > ADAC <https://www.adacoordinator.org/page/Requirements>, Section 508 > Trusted Tester <https://www.dhs.gov/trusted-tester>, PMP > <https://www.pmi.org/certifications/project-management-pmp>, MIS > <https://ils.indiana.edu/programs/master-information-science.html> > > Editor of W3C ARIA Authoring Practice Guide > <https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/> > > Office for Access and Equity <https://oae.uic.edu/>and Technology > Solutions <https://it.uic.edu/> > > University of Illinois Chicago <https://www.uic.edu/> > > Email: jku@uic.edu <mailto:jku@uic.edu> > > *From: *Kim Patch <kim@scriven.com> > *Date: *Thursday, February 23, 2023 1:35 PM > *To: *Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, WAI Coordination Call > <public-wai-cc@w3.org> > *Subject: *Re: Draft issue on saving transcripts > > Punctuation, separating speakers and paragraphing are all difficult to > do automatically, and of course there will be the occasional or not so > occasional wrong word, even with systems that allow users to add a > list of acronyms and common words. > > This is one reason it takes more time than people realize to correct > automatic transcription. > > I'm still thinking that the most practical way to use automatic > transcription may just be to make it available in a way that the > scribe can easily consult and maybe cut-and-paste from during > scribing. Seems like this would make scribing easier. > > Having said all that… > > I think there is a way to improve one aspect of automatic > transcription – it would be possible to sidestep the separating > speakers issue on a zoom call, in theory anyway, because we are all > coming in on different lines. > > Cheers, > Kim > > On 2/23/2023 12:52 PM, Alastair Campbell wrote: > > I did a quick test by piping some meeting audio into Word, the > issues were: > > 1. It’s designed as a dictation tool, so although it worked, it > all comes out in one block of text. > > 1. There’s no attempt at punctuation, let alone separating > speakers. > > 2. You can’t do anything else whilst it is transcribing, if you > click onto another window it stops. > 3. You can’t move the cursor to go back and edit live as it just > starts putting the transcription there. > > Those issues rule it out as something a chair could do whilst > managing a meeting, and I don’t think it’s fair to pick on one > person to be scribe every week (or get people to install software > for this). > > The Google equivalent may be available to a paid subscriber (it > isn’t on my account), it might be somewhat better? > > As a replacement for scribing I think it would need to: > > 4. Be live editable. > 5. Differentiate speakers (at least start a new paragraph with > each speaker). > 6. Either > > 1. Be run by a chair, and then any volunteer scribe can > live-edit, or > 2. be run by anyone without an installation / license. > > Cheers, > > -Alastair > > *From: *Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com> > <mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com> > *Date: *Thursday, 23 February 2023 at 15:04 > *To: *Mary Jo Mueller <maryjom@us.ibm.com> > <mailto:maryjom@us.ibm.com>, Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com> > <mailto:wendy.reid@rakuten.com>, Katie Haritos-Shea > <ryladog@gmail.com> <mailto:ryladog@gmail.com>, kim@scriven.com > <kim@scriven.com> <mailto:kim@scriven.com> > *Cc: *Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org> <mailto:cooper@w3.org>, WAI > Coordination Call <public-wai-cc@w3.org> <mailto:public-wai-cc@w3.org> > *Subject: *Re: Draft issue on saving transcripts > > I think we’d need a tool that pipes the automated transcript into > an editable document, but I’m not sure if such a thing exists? > > I think Google docs has a “Voice typing” feature, perhaps combined > with something like Loopback > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frogueamoeba.com%2Floopback%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C6b177e7d4dbb49c3755808db15d5250a%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C638127777435201457%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bgluG7oA0oIHPQOuc4YemTGMPLq3TDnws9VZhWtGo1Y%3D&reserved=0>? > > -Alastair > > *From: *Mary Jo Mueller <maryjom@us.ibm.com> > <mailto:maryjom@us.ibm.com> > *Date: *Thursday, 23 February 2023 at 14:31 > *To: *Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com> > <mailto:wendy.reid@rakuten.com>, Katie Haritos-Shea > <ryladog@gmail.com> <mailto:ryladog@gmail.com>, kim@scriven.com > <kim@scriven.com> <mailto:kim@scriven.com> > *Cc: *Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org> <mailto:cooper@w3.org>, WAI > Coordination Call <public-wai-cc@w3.org> <mailto:public-wai-cc@w3.org> > *Subject: *Re: Draft issue on saving transcripts > > There is no on-the-fly editing capabilities in Zoom or other > meeting software. There would have to be someone that watches the > transcript and takes note of errors along the way and then the > corrections would have to be incorporated in post-meeting editing > of the transcript. > > Best regards, > > Mary Jo Mueller > > IBM Accessibility Standards Program Manager > > *From: *Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com> > <mailto:wendy.reid@rakuten.com> > *Date: *Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 9:28 AM > *To: *Katie Haritos-Shea <ryladog@gmail.com> > <mailto:ryladog@gmail.com>, kim@scriven.com <kim@scriven.com> > <mailto:kim@scriven.com> > *Cc: *Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org> <mailto:cooper@w3.org>, WAI > Coordination Call <public-wai-cc@w3.org> <mailto:public-wai-cc@w3.org> > *Subject: *[EXTERNAL] Re: Draft issue on saving transcripts > > I’ve been pondering this issue as well, since even though the auto > transcript has its drawbacks, it has reached the point where it’s > possible to either detect the patterns of issues or work around > them. I think scribing is still important, > > ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart > > *This Message Is From an External Sender * > > This message came from outside your organization. > > ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd > > I’ve been pondering this issue as well, since even though the auto > transcript has its drawbacks, it has reached the point where it’s > possible to either detect the patterns of issues or work around them. > > I think scribing is still important, it can be good to have a way > to cut out comments or things that don’t need to be in the meeting > record (chatter, etc.). I wonder if there is a way in Zoom or > another application for there to be transcript editing on the fly, > kind of a hybrid transcript-scribe situation. Someone would > “scribe” the meeting, but their job would be to correct and edit > the transcript on the fly. > > Does anyone know if that’s possible? > > -Wendy > > *From: *Katie Haritos-Shea <ryladog@gmail.com> > <mailto:ryladog@gmail.com> > *Date: *Monday, February 20, 2023 at 7:31 PM > *To: *kim@scriven.com <kim@scriven.com> <mailto:kim@scriven.com> > *Cc: *Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org> <mailto:cooper@w3.org>, WAI > Coordination Call <public-wai-cc@w3.org> <mailto:public-wai-cc@w3.org> > *Subject: *Re: Draft issue on saving transcripts > > *[EXTERNAL] *This message comes from an external organization. > > Good point Kim! > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2023, 1:06 PM Kim Patch <kim@scriven.com> wrote: > > A couple of thoughts on auto transcriptions. > I think they are useful, used wisely. > There will be mistakes, and consequential mistakes like can > for can't are still all too common (I've done a lot of testing > over the past decade) > I think the best use is to make it available during the call > to help scribing so the scribe can look back or even > cut-and-paste chunks. > It is tedious to clean up a transcription. > If a transcription is saved the audio should be saved with it. > > Cheers, > Kim > > On 2/20/2023 12:53 PM, Katie Haritos-Shea wrote: > > +1 it is a good idea. And help many users > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2023, 12:22 PM Michael Cooper > <cooper@w3.org> wrote: > > Hi - we chatted about this a bit during the WAI CC > call today. I'll give a couple days for people to > review on list, and will file the issue Wednesday if > there are no objections. Michael > > On 2023-02-20 9:25 a.m., Michael Cooper wrote: > > Following up on the discussion of saving > transcriptions: > https://www.w3.org/2023/02/13-waicc-minutes#t04 > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2023%2F02%2F13-waicc-minutes%23t04&data=05%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C6b177e7d4dbb49c3755808db15d5250a%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C638127777435201457%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=90bH9Uk3ceal%2FC28Fup4y2%2Fa9W1ZL5mWK%2BBWFSgP%2Fos%3D&reserved=0> > > I found the content in the Guide that we would > ultimately want updated: > https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/transcripts.html > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FGuide%2Fmeetings%2Ftranscripts.html&data=05%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C6b177e7d4dbb49c3755808db15d5250a%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C638127777435201457%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=s5PcPg7u3U7AxGicK4MZAiLad3K09%2B4xlTQIFYS4IrI%3D&reserved=0>. > It mentions some reasons not to allow saving that > we would need to address. For now, this draft > issue is meant to open discussion without having > the full solution. > > === > > @a11ydoer raised a question that we discussed in > the WAI coordination call, about the meeting > transcript saving policy. The Guide > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FGuide%2Fmeetings%2Ftranscripts.html&data=05%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C6b177e7d4dbb49c3755808db15d5250a%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C638127777435201457%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=s5PcPg7u3U7AxGicK4MZAiLad3K09%2B4xlTQIFYS4IrI%3D&reserved=0> > instructs staff to disallow transcript saving, for > important reasons. But we now have some experience > with the feature, and in most of my groups it has > become routine to turn on auto-transcription as an > accessibility and language support. While > transcripts have errors, they are generally > understandable. Groups have begun to wonder if > scribing should be a priority, especially given > the participation cost to the scribe in a given > meeting. Therefore, we would like to explore > incorporating current experience into the > transcript saving policy. > > I believe many of the concerns we have with saving > transcripts could be addressed with policy and > guidance. I believe it is still inappropriate to > use automated transcripts as a formal meeting > record, but I think it is appropriate to allow > them to supplement the official record. > > There are also social concerns about the use of > saved transcripts. While we can't know what would > happen in an untried experiment, our social > experience with live captioning has been > encouraging. People are used to it, and I think > the step to saving transcripts is less of a leap > than it was. > > We look forward to discussing an appropriate way > to make use of this new technology. > > -- > ______________________________________ > > Kimberly Patch > (617) 325-3966 > > patchontech.com > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpatchontech.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C6b177e7d4dbb49c3755808db15d5250a%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C638127777435201457%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gRcfs6e1nrMlzmUo3Lv3t%2BaOi9alB5BYrxPhES0wuXs%3D&reserved=0> > @patchontech > scriven.com/kimpatch > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fscriven.com%2Fkimpatch&data=05%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C6b177e7d4dbb49c3755808db15d5250a%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C638127777435201457%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=w6WfPCAmXsMmnsvLl8k%2Fi1yGiA2Am23hqHmWdMb6pAA%3D&reserved=0> > ______________________________________ > > -- > ______________________________________ > > Kimberly Patch > (617) 325-3966 > > patchontech.com > @patchontech > scriven.com/kimpatch > ______________________________________ > -- ______________________________________ Kimberly Patch (617) 325-3966 patchontech.com @patchontech scriven.com/kimpatch ______________________________________
Received on Thursday, 23 February 2023 22:54:49 UTC