Minutes and summary of 3 February 2014 Chapter 7 Revision Task Force teleconference

Hi all,

The minutes and summary of the 3 February 2014 Chapter 7 Revision Task  
Force teleconference are at:
   http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-w3process-minutes.html

No meeting next week 10-Feb (AB teleconference), next meeting likely  
17-Feb.

Text snapshot:
--------------

           Revising W3C Process Community Group Teleconference
                               03 Feb 2014

    [2]Agenda
       [2]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Feb/0000.html
    See also: [3]IRC log
       [3] http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-w3process-irc

Attendees
    Present
           Steve Zilles, Mike Champion, Coralie Mercier (scribe),
           Charles McCathie Nevile
    Regrets
           Ralph Swick, Jeff Jaffe
    Chair
           Steve Zilles
    Scribe
           Coralie Mercier

Contents and summary

      * [4]Topics

          1. [5]Complete closure of issues 56-58, 67, 70, 72, 81
                o All issues closed subsequent to draft dated 2
                  February.

          2. [6]Discuss Issues 6, 69, 79, 80, 83 and 84

                o [7]ISSUE-83: Explicitly allow WGs to customize
                  process steps in their charters -- PENDING
                  REVIEW, will be addressed in the next editor's
                  draft.

                o [8]ISSUE-84: Reinstate Proposed Recommendation --
                  PENDING REVIEW, part of issue-77, see below.

                o [9]ISSUE-6: Producing Recommendations when we
                  know they need to be refined -- POSTPONED, issue
                  is beyond the scope of the current Chapter 7
                  revisions.

                o [10]ISSUE-69: Chapter 7: get Wide Review of
                  Chapter 7 from other SDOs -- CLOSED. Independent
                  SDOs do not review their proposed Process changes
                  with other SDOs and the Chapter 7 changes do not
                  reduce Review opportunities. Since our status as
                  a PAS submitter depends on our process, we should
                  get a review by ISO/IEC JTC 1 when we have a
                  complete revised Process Document.

                o [11]ISSUE-79: Don't require republication after 6
                  months of no publication -- CLOSED with no change
                  to this document. It is proposed (by the Team)
                  that if the only change to a document is to
                  update its status, indicating why there has been
                  no update in 6 months, then Pubrules would allow
                  that to be done in place without generating a new
                  TR.

                o [12]ISSUE-80: Publishing Note to end unfinished
                  REC should only be SHOULD -- from RAISED to OPEN.
                  The Task Force noted that the current text in the
                  2 February editor's draft covered the cases that
                  were actually likely to occur in practice. For
                  example, we have never had the Director tell a WG
                  to stop work on a given piece of work so how this
                  needs to be handled is not very important.

                o [13]ISSUE-77: Clarify the process of moving from
                  CR to REC -- (includes issue-59, 84 and 76) The
                  Task Force discussion noted:
                     # change "repeat the full process of
                       publication" to "re-issue the publication"
                       and define a process for "re-issue"
                     # Require the approval of the Team Contact to
                       do the re-issue (and that is the only
                       approval required)
                     # Begin a new "Patent Exclusion Period" on the
                       new delta

                      https://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/83
                      https://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/84
                      https://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/6
                      https://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/69
                      https://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/79
                      https://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/80
                      http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/77

      * [14]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 03 February 2014

    <koaliie> [15]Previous (2014-01-27)

      [15]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Jan/0026.html

    <koalie> scribe: Coralie

    <koalie> scribenick: koalie

Complete closure of issues 56-58, 67, 70, 72, 81

    issue-56?

    <trackbot> issue-56 -- How are groups outside the W3C, but with
    dependencies on a specification notified of a pending LCCR? --
    closed

    <trackbot>
    [16]http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/56

      [16] http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/56

    SteveZ: I closed 56
    ... I closed issues after our last meeting

    SteveZ: 56-58, 67, are closed

    chaals: 72, 74, 78 are "pending review"

    chaals: 83 and 84 are also pending review
    ... Want me to talk through what I did?

    SteveZ: Yes.

    issue 72?

    issue-72?

    <trackbot> issue-72 -- Rationalising the definition of
    different types of change -- pending review

    <trackbot>
    [17]http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/72

      [17] http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/72

    chaals: 72: I moved the section defining changes to the earlier
    definitions section, as agreed

    issue-74?

    <trackbot> issue-74 -- Must specs describe next steps? --
    pending review

    <trackbot>
    [18]http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/74

      [18] http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/74

    chaals: 74: Changed the "should document expectations of next
    steps" to a must
    ... Current draft's date is 2 February

    <koaliie> [19]Current draft

      [19] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/AB/raw-file/default/tr.html

    chaals: 7.2.5 Classes of Changes

    SteveZ: I closed issue-74

    issue-78?

    <trackbot> issue-78 -- Requirements for public discussion and
    wide review of rescindment request are redundant -- pending
    review

    <trackbot>
    [20]http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/78

      [20] http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/78

    chaals: I removed the redundant requirement

Discuss Issues 6, 69, 79, 80, 83 and 84

    issue-83?

    <trackbot> issue-83 -- Explicitly allow WGs to customize
    process steps in their charters -- pending review

    <trackbot>
    [21]http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/83

      [21] http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/83

    chaals: I wrote email explaining that I would address the part
    of issue-83 relevant to this chapter in the next editor's draft

    <koaliie>[22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3proce
    ss/2014Feb/0003.html

      [22]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Feb/0003.html

    SteveZ: We'll leave that one pending.

    issue-84?

    <trackbot> issue-84 -- Reinstate Proposed Recommendation --
    pending review

    <trackbot>
    [23]http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/84

      [23] http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/84

    chaals: part of issue-77
    ... and related to e-mail I sent

    <koaliie>[24]Clarifying the steps from CR to Rec

      [24]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Feb/0002.html

    SteveZ: OK, we'll leave it pending.

    <SteveZ> Item: 2. Discuss Issues 6, 69, 79, 80, 83 and 84

    SteveZ: suggested ways to resolve outstanding issues
    ... I'd like to postpone 6

    issue-6?

    <trackbot> issue-6 -- Producing Recommendations when we know
    they need to be refined -- raised

    <trackbot>
    [25]http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/6

      [25] http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/6

    chaals: I can live with postponing 6
    ... I think we need to deal with it, but maybe not immediately

    SteveZ: We can bring it up next Monday's phone call

    chaals: I can live with postponing.

    SteveZ: OK

    Mike: I'm not unhappy about it.

    RESOLUTION: Issue-6: POSTPONED. This topic is beyond the scope
    of the current Chapter 7 updates and revisions.

    issue-69?

    <trackbot> issue-69 -- Chapter 7: get Wide Review of Chapter 7
    from other SDOs -- raised

    <trackbot>
    [26]http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/69

      [26] http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/69

    SteveZ: I think it's moot
    ... my proposed resolution for that was we notify SDOs of the
    updated Process when we have a full draft

    chaals: I think we should ensure ISO in particular is aware

    Mike: Let's run it with the AB

    SteveZ: Can I close it or do we want "pending review" on this
    one?

    Mike: We need to make sure the AB thinks about this

    SteveZ: Chaals, OK with closing?

    chaals: Yes, sure.

    RESOLUTION: issue-69: CLOSE: Independent SDOs do not review
    their proposed Process changes with other SDOs and the Chapter
    7 changes do not reduce Review opportunities. Since our status
    as a PAS submitter depends on our process, we should get a
    review by ISO/IEC JTC 1 when we have a complete revised Process
    Document.

    issue-79?

    <trackbot> issue-79 -- Don't require republication after 6
    months of no publication -- raised

    <trackbot>
    [27]http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/79

      [27] http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/79

    SteveZ: The message trail has Ian writing it would be OK to not
    require republication after 6 months

    chaals: I would like an Updated status for a document on TR to
    publishing a document on TR

    SteveZ: If I accept your definition of publishing, I
    understand. I'm not sure anybody reading this document would
    catch on to that.

    chaals: Propose something?

    SteveZ: I don't want to overspecify "pubrules"
    ... if the only change is an update to status section, that can
    be done in place.

    chaals: We don't say what publishing or making changes in place
    means

    SteveZ: I can live with your interpretation
    ... Closed.

    RESOLUTION: issue-79: CLOSED with no change to this document.
    It is proposed (by the Team) that if the only change to a
    document is to update its status, indicating why there has been
    no update in 6 months, then Pubrules would allow that to be
    done in place without generating a new TR.

    issue-80?

    <trackbot> issue-80 -- Publishing Note to end unfinished REC
    should only be SHOULD -- raised

    <trackbot>
    [28]http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/80

      [28] http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/80

    SteveZ: Must turn work into a note. Chaals said you can't put
    that on a WG because the likely cause is that the WG
    disappeared
    ... I suggested that someone has to declare the work unfinished
    ... There is nothing in 7.3.2
    ... How about we say "The Working Group, or the W3C Team, MUST
    publish the document as a Working Group Note" with appropriate
    status?

    Mike: So after a certain amount of time the MUST must be clear

    chaals: the WG has a SHOULD, while active

    Mike: any kind of timeline when the group is active?

    chaals: Before next transition

    Mike: So it's a MUST on the Team
    ... does the current process say anything about it?

    chaals: I don't think the current process says anything at all
    about it.

    Mike: The proposal is to make it a MUST on the Team and a
    SHOULD on the WG?

    SteveZ: Yes

    Mike: OK.

    SteveZ: "The Working Group SHOULD, or the Team MUST" is my
    current wording

    chaals: If the Director wants a WG to stop, he closes the WG
    and accepts the responsibility of publishing unfinished work on
    behalf of the team.

    SteveZ: In the case not covered, I wanted to add "W3C team MUST
    publish the document as a WG Note"

    chaals: Someone should, otherwise someone has to.
    ... If you add "W3C MUST" then you can take out "Working Group
    SHOULD". But I don't think that is a good idea
    ... the responsibility is a SHOULD, and we should leave it with
    the Working Group.

    SteveZ: My problem is that the way I read Ian's note, he's not
    complaining about the Team having the responsibility, but the
    difference between a WG that closes and the Director requiring
    a WG to discontinue.
    ... We can leave this for discussion next Monday.

    chaals: I don't know many cases when the Director has required
    a WG to stop a particular work item while continuing. I don't
    think there is a real problem to be solved and don't think the
    nice symmetry in process is worthwhile for this issue

    Mike: [yeah]

    SteveZ: Changing issue-80 from RAISED to OPEN

    issue-77?

    <trackbot> issue-77 -- Clarify the process of moving from CR to
    REC -- open

    <trackbot>
    [29]http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/77

      [29] http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/77

    chaals: issue-77 includes issue-59, 84 and 76
    ... I'd like to see feeback on my proposal

    <koaliie> [30]Clarifying the steps from CR to Rec

      [30]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Feb/0002.html

    chaals: My recommendation is to require Team approval
    ... delegated to the Team contact

    SteveZ: Do we agree that substantive changes require a new
    patent exclusion period?

    Mike: It requires wide review certainly

    chaals: section 7.4
    ... the PP isn't clear about what the exclusion opportunity
    covers
    ... We should let it sit and request some sense from the PSIG -
    not because it would change what we will do here since it makes
    no real difference to what goes in the process here, but
    because clarity would be helpful
    ... It would certainly most always trigger a new exclusion
    opportunity

    <scribe> scribenick: SteveZ

    SteveZ: Changes are:
    ... 1. change "repeat the full process of publication" to
    "re-issue the publication" and define a process for "re-issue"
    ... 2. Require the approval of the Team Contact to do the
    re-issue (and that is the only approval required)
    ... 3. Begin a new "Patent Exclusion Period" on the new delta

    <koalie> scribenick: koalie

    chaals: I think we require the Director's approval but this is
    largely delegated
    ... Requiring the Team contact approval, a) it doesn't happen
    anywhere else

    SteveZ: I'm fine with that

    chaals: We should not prescribe a new patent exclusion period,
    but provide a pointer to the Patent Document and note that an
    exclusion may arise as a result of new publication

    SteveZ: We're overtime.
    ... Out of politeness, we should do a disposition of comment
    document
    ... Those are best done in Text files in the CSS WG

    chaals: Issue tracker tracks the comments

    SteveZ: ... notifying those who raised issues to see if they
    accept the resolution

    <chaals> koalie++ #scribing a rambling conversation like this
    on dodgy connections

Summary of Action Items

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________


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-- 
  Coralie Mercier  -  W3C Communications Team  -  http://www.w3.org
mailto:coralie@w3.org +336 4322 0001 http://www.w3.org/People/CMercier/

Received on Tuesday, 4 February 2014 08:55:05 UTC