Re: Circa. dates

There are, at issue#242 <https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/242> ,
some use cases... I think the main use case is a kind of "bibliographic
use",

* the http://schema.org/datePublished  captures this use case;

* more properties can be, perhaps, justified, if schemaOrg will be improved
by a new type (sub-vocabulary) for archaeological or geological specialized
use cases.

... I understand that there are here two discussions or discussion
approaches,

1)  *datePublished* property is satisfatory for "bibliographic use cases"
(?)
      when used in a context like YEAR tag in
http://jats.nlm.nih.gov/publishing/tag-library/1.0/n-4cw2.html#pub-tag-cite-dates

2) schemaOrg need a specialization for archaeological or geological
specialized use cases?


krauss


2015-03-01 9:59 GMT-03:00 Dan Scott <dan@coffeecode.net>:

> Jeff, the problem is that adding a new property only handles one part of a
> range of necessary date. That is, it is primarily CreativeWork
> publication/release oriented, and even then handles only one of dateCreated
> / dateModified / datePublished. You could use schema:circa in place of
> schema:birthDate, maybe, but it would be hard to reuse it for
> schema:deathDate if defined as "emerging". Maybe you could apply
> schema:circa in combination with a second date-oriented property to suggest
> that the date is "-ish" but that would require a schema.org-specific
> interpretation.
>
> I think the original 2012 discussion had the right suggested approach in
> terms of LoC's draft level 1 extension to ISO8601. Rather than doing
> anything schema.org-specific I would be much more comfortable adopting &
> encouraging an extension that has practical applications in a much broader
> domain.
> On 28 Feb 2015 21:07, "Young,Jeff (OR)" <jyoung@oclc.org> wrote:
>
>> I would be happy with something like this:
>>
>> schema:circa
>>     a rdf:Property;
>>     rdfs:comment "A rough approximation of the temporal period when the
>> thing emerged";
>>     rdfs:domainIncludes schema:Thing;
>>     rdfs:rangeIncludes schema:Date, schema:Duration, schema:Event.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 28, 2015, at 5:27 PM, Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Also note that some of the "circa dates" attempt to narrow down the
>> date to a century or a decade. In library data this is done with "19uu" or
>> "196u" with "u" standing for unknown, of course. In one system we indexed
>> these as ranges, e.g. 1900-1999, 1960-1969, which worked for our date
>> search algorithm but is of course is ambiguous (is it really a range? or is
>> it an approximation?). Another interesting date that appears in archives is
>> the "flourished" date -- this gets used for writers and artists for whom
>> the time period of their work is known but their bio information has not be
>> recorded for the ages.
>> >
>> > That said, I'm wondering what the use case is for defining these dates
>> as "circa" or "flourished" in schema.org. One of the really useful
>> things about schema.org is that you keep the display form, in this case
>> "c. 1765", for human consumption, but can also include a coded form that is
>> actionable. Question is, what is that action, and is "circa" something that
>> the action with act on?
>> >
>> > kc
>> >
>> >> On 2/28/15 9:51 AM, Wallis,Richard wrote:
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> With colleagues I have been looking at how we might handle historical
>> >> approximate dates in Schema.org <http://Schema.org>.  The initial
>> >> requirement being to be able to describe an old book or manuscript
>> >> published say in approximately 1765.  A common need in the
>> bibliographic
>> >> world, with the normal string based solution being “circa. 1765”, or
>> “c.
>> >> 1765” - Wikipedia providing some examples
>> >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circa>.
>> >>
>> >> The knee-jerk reaction was to suggest some sort of
>> >> approximateDateCreated property for CreativeWork which would not only
>> >> help us bibliographic folks but also those in museums and galleries
>> with
>> >> similar date approximation needs.
>> >>
>> >> Broadening the analysis it became clear that this need could be
>> >> applicable in most any case where you would expect a Date
>> >> <http://schema.org/Date> in the range of a property.  birthDate,
>> >> deathDate, dateCreated, datePublished, foundingDate, all being all
>> >> potential candidates for Circa style dates.  Rolling things into the
>> >> future you could imagine other examples such as wanting to describe the
>> >> last serviced date of a vehicle being circa 2013.
>> >>
>> >> So how to solve this in a simple, yet generic, way?
>> >>
>> >> We could take advantage of the default "if you haven’t got a specified
>> >> type for a property, a Text is acceptable” pattern in Schema, and just
>> >> put in a text string with a defined format: “c.1765”.
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps a more appropriate solution would be to define a new data type,
>> >> to be added to the range of suitable properties.
>> >>
>> >> My pragmatic (KISS and don’t break stuff) view of this leads me to
>> >> suggest a new data type named ‘circaData’, or maybe 'approximateDate'
>> as
>> >> a subType of Date.  With descriptive information in the Type definition
>> >> explaining why/how you would use it in the use cases I describe above.
>> >>
>> >> This approach would add this important functionality, for those
>> >> describing old stuff, without the need for major upheaval across the
>> >> vocabulary, and would at least default to a date for those that do not
>> >> care or look for such approximation aspect of dates.
>> >>
>> >> ~Richard
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Karen Coyle
>> > kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
>> > m: 1-510-435-8234
>> > skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600
>> >
>>
>>
>>