Re: Proposal: Promote 'citation' property up to CreativeWork

Maori,

Thank you for such a complete analysis of this.

On 5/22/13 8:16 PM, Maori Ito wrote:
> Karen, Mizuki (Morita) and all,
>
> Thank you for your mail and I'm sorry for late reply.
>
> I really struggled which choice is better to mark up.
> I'd like to discuss:
>
> 1.Strongly recommend using ID.


I agree that IDs should be used where available. IDs exist only for some 
articles and books, however. Article IDs have been in use only for a 
short while, and are more common in the sciences than in other fields. 
Can you do an example where there is no ID?


> 2.Difference between 'citation' and 'reference'
 > 3.Take advantage of itemid

I think we need to look at some other citation styles. The example you 
show at kanzaki.com uses this style:

   [Sereno 1991]

and that links to the full citation.

Some document styles use a superscript number, and that can link to a 
partial citation:

 7. Ibid., 39 - 43.

This style will be harder to present in microdata. But we should try to 
code some different citation styles before making decisions here.

Here are some links to different styles:

http://library.williams.edu/citing/styles/chicago1.php
http://bcs.bedfordstmartins.com/resdoc5e/RES5e_ch09_o.html
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/books/turabian/turabian_citationguide.html
http://wiki.lexisnexis.com/academic/index.php?title=Legal_Citation_Formats


kc


>
> 1. Strongly recommend using ID.
>
> If you want to quote publication and if you want to finish it in 3
> minutes, do you want to use microdata?
> What a mess!
> I'd like to say, "No fuss, no mess!"
> So I strongly recommend using ID.
> There are many who are interested in fun (and/or) benefit.
> I'd like to say it's easy and you can feel benefit by using microdata.
>
> The method that I would recommend you is using entryID.
> Minimal mark up is using ID "certainly".
> If the contents have not ID, please use URL.
> If the web developers have a understanding, recommend to use the other
> properties.
> If you are busy or beginners, only using ID.
> I hope many people use microdata with citation or reference.
> Don't you think that this way would make many metadata?
>
> Here is the example.
>
> <ul itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/ScholarlyArticle">
> <li>
> Sereno PD (1991) Basal archosaurs: phylogenetic relationships and
> functional implications Society of Vertebrate Paleontology
> <meta itemprop="entryID"
> content="doi:10.2307/3889336">10.2307/3889336</meta>
> </li>
> <li>
> Langer MC (2004) The Dinosauria
> <meta itemprop="entryID"
> content="isbn13:9780520242098">9780520242098</meta>
> </li>
> <li>
> Morita M (2012) Sagace: a web-based search engine for biomedical
> databases in Japan
> <meta itemprop='entryID' content='pmid:23110816'>23110816</meta>
> </li>
> </ul>
>
> Simple!
>
> I made a useful tool to make publication list with microdata.
> http://sagace.nibio.go.jp/publication/proposal.html
>
> If you enter pubmed id, this tool will make publication list with
> microdata tag.
> Beginners might feel confuse complicate codes.
> How about using ID is minimum?
>
> 2.Difference between 'citation' and 'reference'
>
> I'm Japanese so I'm not sure the rigid distinction.
> However when I read the following links by Mizuki (Morita),
> I felt it had better to distinguish between them.
>
> http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/services/library/help/guidespublications/bib_cit/
> http://drdianehamilton.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/what-is-the-difference-between-a-citation-and-a-reference/
>
>
> In case of developers quote text, promote to use 'citation' property and
> in case of developers want to make references (list),
> promote to use 'reference' property.
>
> Example markup image of mine is the same as Mizuki (Morita).
>
> 3.Take advantage of itemid
>
> I'd like to know what do you think about microdata as a graph?
> If microdata can be a graph, what is the node? Page or Data?
> If we think data as a node, I recommend to use itemid.
>
> I read several pages about external enumerations and its discussions.
> I really struggled about them and talk about it Masahide Kanzaki.
> He suggested me links as shown below.
> If you mark up like this, you can treat a reference as a data and it
> will become clear
> the relationships between citation and reference.
>
> http://www.kanzaki.com/works/2013/misc/0518-citation.html
>
> When I think about Linked data deeply, it will become useful mark up.
> We can connect references as individual data with meanings in many pages.
> However the mark up is a bit complicated.
>
> If the developers can mark up finely, I think we had better to use
> itemid too.
> I wonder why itemid had to declare with itemtype.
>
> We have to think about how to encourage the developers to apply microdata.
> At the same time, we have to have a perspective of using data effectively.
>
> What do you think about these?
>
> ＃I'm sad that I couldn't get reply about BiologicalDatabaseEntry and
> BiologicalDatabase proposals.
> How to officially join these proposals to schema.org?
>
> #I'm not good at English, if you ok, please reply easily understandable
> English.
>
>
> Maori
>
>
>
>
> (13/05/16 0:16), Karen Coyle wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 5/14/13 10:50 PM, MORITA Mizuki wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Karen has pointed out the difference between a citation and a
>>> reference. Is it right?
>>
>> Morita - that's an interesting distinction, but I believe that
>> schema.org/citation does not make this distinction, and unfortunately
>> doesn't include an example that would clarify this. In its definition
>> it appears to be closer to what you refer to as a "reference":
>>
>> citation     CreativeWork or Text     A citation or reference to
>> another creative work, such as another publication, web page,
>> scholarly article, etc. NOTE: Candidate for promotion to
>> ScholarlyArticle.
>>
>> So it is a work referred to from another work, and there is no further
>> definition. My assumption would be that the intra-text links, such as:
>>
>> [2]
>> (Smith, 2013)
>>
>> would not be terribly useful for markup. Instead,markup would be given
>> to the text that is presumably sufficient to actually identify the
>> thing being cited. This could be a simple string (as most cited works
>> are today):
>>
>> <span itemprop="citation">Matthews, Joe. "The Value of Information in
>> Library Catalogs." Information Outlook (July, 2000) 18-24.
>> </span>
>>
>> The other option is that the citation could be coded as a
>> schema/CreativeWork. This would approximate your "reference", below,
>> using "citation" instead of "reference" as its itemprop.
>>
>> I'm afraid that regular English usage doesn't have a clear separation
>> between "citation" and "reference": "He cited the article" "There is a
>> citation for the article" "This book has a reference to the article"
>> -- it perhaps should be more clear, but it isn't. (As is the case for
>> so much of English usage -- sorry about that!)
>>
>> kc
>>
>>>
>>>> Richard
>>>
>>> +1.
>>>
>>> I've quickly tried to modify the example on the ‘Citation’ Wiki page.
>>> Please discard it if it doesn't make sense. It's just a quick thought
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> ==============================
>>> <article itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/ScholarlyArticle">
>>>    <p itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/ScholarlyArticle">
>>>      In each of the successively more derived clades Ornithodira,
>>> Dinosauria, and Saurischia, the primitive state was an increasingly
>>> long neck (<a itemprop="citation" href="#ref-1">Sereno, 1991a</a>; <a
>>> itemprop="citation" href="#ref-2">Langer, 2004</a>).
>>>    </p>
>>>
>>>    <ul id="references">
>>>      <li itemprop="reference" itemscope
>>> itemtype="http://schema.org/ScholarlyArticle" id="ref-1">
>>>        <span itemprop="author" itemscope
>>> itemtype="http://schema.org/Person">
>>>          <span itemprop="familyName">Sereno</span> PD
>>>        </span>
>>>        (<span itemprop="datePublished">1991</span>)
>>>        <cite itemprop="name"><a itemprop="url"
>>> href="http://dx.doi.org/10.2307/3889336">Basal archosaurs:
>>> phylogenetic relationships and functional implications</a></cite>
>>>        <span>
>>>          <cite class="source">Society of Vertebrate Paleontology
>>> Memoir</cite> <span class="volume">2</span>:<span
>>> class="fpage">1</span>
>>>        </span>
>>>        <meta itemprop="referenceID"
>>> content="doi:10.2307/3889336">10.2307/3889336</meta>
>>>      </li>
>>>
>>>      <li itemprop="reference" itemscope
>>> itemtype="http://schema.org/Book" id="ref-2">
>>>        <span itemprop="author" itemscope
>>> itemtype="http://schema.org/Person">
>>>          <span itemprop="familyName">Langer</span> MC
>>>        </span>
>>>        (<span itemprop="datePublished">2004</span>)
>>>        <cite itemprop="name"><a itemprop="url"
>>> href="http://books.google.co.uk/books?vid=ISBN9780520242098">The
>>> Dinosauria</a></cite>
>>>        <meta itemprop="referenceID"
>>> content="isbn13:9780520242098">9780520242098</meta>
>>>      </li>
>>>    </ul>
>>> </article>
>>> ==============================
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Mizuki
>>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Karen Coyle
kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
ph: 1-510-540-7596
m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet

Received on Thursday, 23 May 2013 16:17:08 UTC