Minutes for VCWG telecon 4 December 2018

available at:
  https://www.w3.org/2018/12/04-vcwg-minutes.html

also as text below.

Thanks a lot for taking these minutes, David Chadwick!

Kazuyuki

---

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                    Verifiable Claims Working Group

04 Dec 2018

   [2]Agenda

      [2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-wg/2018Dec/0000.html

Attendees

   Present
          Dan_Burnett, Markus_Sabadello, Benjamin_Young,
          Tim_Tibbals, Dave_Longley, David_Chadwick, Kaliya_Young,
          Ken_Ebert, Manu_Sporny, Matt_Stone, Ted_Thibodeau,
          Tzviya_Siegman, Ganesh_Annan, David_Ezell,
          Dmitri_Zagidulin, Joe_Andrieu, Kaz_Ashimura,
          Mike_Lodder, Brent_Zundel, Oliver_Terbu, Yancy_Ribbens

   Regrets

   Chair
          Dan_Burnett, Matt_Stone

   Scribe
          DavidC

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Agenda review, Introductions, Re-introductions
         2. [5]Unassigned issues
         3. [6]Get to CR Schedule Review
         4. [7]Initial Consensus vote by WG
         5. [8]draft concensus vote
         6. [9]Initial Consensus vote by WG
         7. [10]Next week's call
     * [11]Summary of Action Items
     * [12]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <burn> scribenick: DavidC

Agenda review, Introductions, Re-introductions

Unassigned issues

   Matt does not believe there are any

   <Zakim> manu, you wanted to note ongoing bikeshed vote!

   <manu> Link to the ongoing bikeshed poll on "Identifier
   Registry": [13]https://www.opavote.com/en/vote/4635712146112512

     [13] https://www.opavote.com/en/vote/4635712146112512

   Manu gave an update on the poll for terminology of the ID
   registry

   26 (?) people already participated in the poll

   <burn>
   [14]https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&
   q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+no%3Aassignee

     [14] https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues?utf8=✓&q=is:issue+is:open+no:assignee

   Noone assigned to #253

Get to CR Schedule Review

   Noone volunteered, but since it is not important, defer
   assignment for now

Initial Consensus vote by WG

   At TPAC advised to be early rather than late

   and not to ask for an extension if no CR already published

   We need to publish by 15 Jan 2019

   Can only publish on Tuesdays and Thursdays (providing it is not
   a blue moon :-)

   We have already had informal reviews from many groups (ex.
   security)

   People do not like giving them a review document just before
   holidays

   But two weeks plus holidays is a good strategy to adopt

   which makes it next Tuesday, Dec 11

   <stonematt> publishing date milestone calculator:
   [15]https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/

     [15] https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/

   This explains the pressure for finishing issues and PRs ASAP

   If we can document changes after publication, then this is
   acceptable practice

   All above said by stonematt

   stonematt: if the format changes due to edits after initial
   publication, then a new CR will need to be published

   <stonematt> what's expected in the "explainer"

   <JoeAndrieu>
   [16]https://github.com/w3ctag/w3ctag.github.io/blob/master/expl
   ainers.md

     [16] https://github.com/w3ctag/w3ctag.github.io/blob/master/explainers.md

   <Zakim> JoeAndrieu, you wanted to mention requirements update

   JoeAndrieu: use cases team have been going through their doc
   since the TPAC
   ... how does the use case and requirements docs fit into the
   timeframe

   <tzviya> wide review [17]https://www.w3.org/wiki/DocumentReview

     [17] https://www.w3.org/wiki/DocumentReview

   JoeAndrieu: use cases doc will make changes to data model due
   to more requirements on DM

   stonematt: the DM CR needs to show that we have met the
   requirements
   ... we need to know how well current DM doc matches use case
   requirements
   ... will talk to JoeAndrieu after this meeting to get details

   kaz: need to check implementability of all the mandatory
   features in the DM

   burn: we have a test suite already

   Manu: usually implementations follow the publication of CR and
   do not preceed it

   kaz: CR entering criteria is generating a list of features as
   an implementation plan document, and CR exit criteria is
   filling that out as an implementation report with 2 or more
   implementations for each feature

   burn: we need an implementation doc after the CR is published

   <TallTed> [18]https://www.w3.org/TR/prov-overview/

     [18] https://www.w3.org/TR/prov-overview/

   TallTed: is struggling to see how current DM fits the initial
   WG requirements

   <Zakim> manu, you wanted to note that given all of these items,
   and given our velocity, next week isn't happening (especially
   given the workshop)

   TallTed: a lot of work has gone into the the current DM, but I
   believe there is still a lot of work to do
   ... too much to go to CR this week or even next week

   Manu: everyone is under pressure, so meeting the suggested
   schedule will be very difficult
   ... we could publish on 15 Jan and give 45 days notice now
   ... this gives everyone advance notice of our intention, and we
   do not anticipate any major changes between now and then
   ... multiple people are implementing the current DM, so I do
   not believe (unlike TallTed) that the current DM is not
   implementable
   ... the working group is working well, the process is something
   of a ball and chain
   ... the current DM is not the final DM, but is it good enough
   for v1?
   ... will the current DM cause any major difficulties to users?
   If not, then we should be able to accept the current DM as the
   initial version

   <Zakim> burn, you wanted to talk about timing and to talk about
   process confusion and to question the 15 Jan date and to say no
   new features

   burn: the major issues are ZKP and JWT
   ... unfortunately these topics were started late in the cycle
   ... we will not publish a CR in January if we cannot do a full
   review immediately
   ... up to 6 month extension is relatively easy to get providing
   you have already published a CR
   ... the fact that we already have implementations does not mean
   that the current CR is stable
   ... no new features after CR is published
   ... so ToU needs to be either resolved ASAP or removed now

   <Zakim> TallTed, you wanted to say that revisiting/revising
   demands backward-compatibility, so it really has to be more
   than "good enough"

   TallTed: I do not propose to formally object, but I am
   objecting to some of the current spec details
   ... v1 should be the minimum required to make VCs usable
   ... it might be 3 to 5 years before the next version is
   chartered
   ... and it might mean that v2 is incompatible with v1
   ... so v1 will need to fail elegantly with a v2 system

   dezell: I chaired schema WG. Getting CR published was
   challenging
   ... as far as I know producing a ruby when a diamond was
   promised is OK
   ... so if the spec if not finished but is going in the right
   direction, then AC should approve this

   <Zakim> burn, you wanted to ask Ted for the specific pieces he
   thinks might need to be left out and to remind people about W3C
   Notes

   burn: if a feature is not solidly agreed, it can still be
   written up in a non-standard WG Note

   <TallTed> +1 WG Notes are good things

   burn: so if we cannot fully work out an advanced feature, then
   putting it in a non-normative Note is one way forward
   ... TallTed can you say which features you think should be
   pulled out?
   ... ToU is one obvious one to me

   Sorry. .... > TallTed

   <manu> yeah, +1 to that, TallTed

   <manu> ... and was what was intended.

   <Zakim> kaz, you wanted to ask if you want me to start
   discussion with w3m about possible charter extension (given the
   current charter expires at the end of March 2019)

   kaz: should I start to talk with the W3C Management about
   requresting an extension?

   burn: let's talk about that during the VC Chairs call

   <Zakim> manu, you wanted to note that we also have wider review
   than we think... that we can share with W3M.

   burn: requesting an extension is not so we can relax now, but
   rather so that we can finish what we are doing

   manu: we have requested very wide ranging reviews, which is
   more than a lot of other WGs
   ... US Federal government has said it plans to use VCs

   <burn> agree with Manu. I mentioned at the beginning that I
   believe we alreaxdy have very wide review

   <burn> And am happy to defend that in a transition call

   manu: everything is going well for us, except the W3C timeline
   process :-(

draft concensus vote

Initial Consensus vote by WG

   burn: who in the working group would object to us publising
   what we have today apart from editorial changes?

   <oliver_terbu> :)

   manu: does this include the pending PRs?

   <stonematt> +1 after ZKP, JWT, ToU disposition

   <dlongley> +1 after the PRs are in

   <manu> +1 after PRs are in

   <JoeAndrieu> as long as the PR goes in, I won't object. I would
   today. (Btw, David Chadwick approved the PR, so we're just
   waiting for Manu)

   <oliver_terbu> +1 after ZKP, JWT

   <dmitriz> +1

   +1 after PRs are in

   <JoeAndrieu> -1 without PRs

   <ken> +1 after ZKP, JWT, (remove or fix) TOU

   <TallTed> -0 because I wasn't prepared for this question as
   such. I have concerns, but a reread after PR application may
   resolve them.

   burn: +1 means I approve publication, -1 I do not

   <dezell> +1 with PRs

   <manu> ... and we don't have any crazy PRs at this point, IIRC.

   <Tim_Tibbals> +1 especially with Added first few examples and
   text to data model that highlights zkp #265 PR.

   <brentz> +1 after ZKP

Next week's call

   burn: who cannot attend next week?

   <brentz> cannot attend

   <ken> cannot attend

   <burn> Lots of cannot attends next week, some unminuted

   <oliver_terbu> what about rescheduling?

   <Tim_Tibbals> move call?

   burn: should we cancel next week?
   ... if we do not have the current PR editors available next
   week then we should cancel

   sorry burn-> stonematt

   <oliver_terbu> i could also attend the meeting but if the spec
   editor is not available, it won't be productive

   burn: next week's meeting is cancelled. This gives you an extra
   hour to work on the PRs :-)
   ... the next call will be 18 Dec and this will be the last one
   this year

   <stonematt> thanks all!

   <kaz> [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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Received on Thursday, 6 December 2018 02:30:11 UTC