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{agenda} TTWG Meeting 2017-11-02

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 17:44:28 +0000
To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <D61E42FA.4D0E5%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
This meeting is scheduled for up to 120m. Please be ready for a prompt start at 10:03am Boston time.

Main focus is to agree actions to complete before next week's F2F. We are likely to use the whole 2 hours.

Our teleconference is scheduled with reference to Boston Time, the correct time of this teleconference in your locale may change.

DST has begun in Europe, but not in the US - please check the link for your local time:
Check https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20171102T10&p1=43


Thursdays 10:03am-12:00pm Boston local

Joining details:

see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2016Oct/0009.html

(members-only link – if you can't see this and wish to join please contact me)

Agenda+ Assign Roles

Chairs: Nigel Megitt

Scribe: usually Nigel – open to offers!

Regrets: Andreas, Thierry

Activity since last meeting:
See individual agenda items for recent activity on specific products

Cross-product TTWG board: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/board/
We are still using tracker for actions unrelated to issues.
Please do not add or modify issues in tracker!

IMSC: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pulse
TTML1: https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pulse
TTML2: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pulse
TTML Profile Registry: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pulse
TTML-WebVTT mapping: https://github.com/w3c/ttml-webvtt-mapping/pulse
WebVTT: https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pulse

Agenda+ Prioritise discussion for this meeting and look ahead

Check-point for order of topics – I'd suggest, subject to reordering:
1. TPAC 2017 advanced planning
2. TTML1 and TTML2 compatibility in practice
3. TTML2 Wide & Horizontal Review
4. IMSC including vNext requirements Note publication proposal
5. TTML issue assignment and progress tracking
6. TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs, editorial actions etc
7. WebVTT feedback (David Singer to Chair if present)
8. HDR in PNG (placeholder)
9. Progress on HTMLCue proposal (placeholder)
10. AOB – please notify of any other AOB now!


Reminder re future milestones and meetings:

November meetings:

Thursday 9th November: TTWG Face to Face meeting at TPAC
Friday 10th November: TTWG Face to Face meeting at TPAC
Thursday 16th November: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s) - NM unable to attend
Thursday 23rd November: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 30th November: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)

IMSC 2 and TTML2 publication events: see the timeline of upcoming work at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/Publications#Timeline_of_TTML2_and_IMSC2_work

Further ahead:

Thursday 7th December: TTWG meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 14th December: TTWG meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 21st December: No meeting?
Thursday 28th December: No meeting?
Thursday 4th January: TTWG meeting ? Hour(s)

Agenda+ TPAC 2017 Advanced planning

Review draft schedule

W3C TPAC 2017 event page: https://www.w3.org/2017/11/TPAC/Overview.html
TTWG TPAC2017 wiki page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2017

We will jointly meet the Web & TV IG on the Monday, and have invited CSS WG to attend our meeting on the Friday, times to be confirmed.

Agenda+ TTML1 and TTML2 compatibility in practice

Reference Cyril's work to analyse the actual practical differences – is this complete? If it is, can we address the specifics to understand the alignment/mis-alignment? Are there any resulting actions?

<https://docs..google.com/document/d/1Ri7RBBsbIK9SRxA1KsHRejXbYBuL4CRRrbmEZRbwZpg/edit?usp=sharing>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ri7RBBsbIK9SRxA1KsHRejXbYBuL4CRRrbmEZRbwZpg/edit?usp=sharing


Agenda+ TTML2 Wide and Horizontal Review

ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-508<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/508>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/508/edit>     open    Check if there are editorial/substantive labels for ttml2 issues and add if not.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/508>  Thierry Michel  2017-10-12      TTML2<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/4>

Can the above action be closed?

CSS WG review

Minutes from CSS WG Paris F2F that Nigel attended remotely on Friday 4th August: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2017Sep/0000.html
This is at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/CSSRequirements

The CSS WG has been invited to meet us at TPAC on the Friday.
We also need to explain what the use case is for the features, rather than just each styling feature itself.

TAG design review issue: https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/138

CSS Review of TTML2, threads: FW: TTML2 horizontal review with CSS<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0013.html> and Fwd: Subtitle/caption styling + TTML + CSS<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0019.html>

Internationalisation review by r12a has generated several issues on TTML2 and comments on existing issues (see below), this week mainly about alignment with relatively recent CSS developments.

CSS 2.2 request for reviews from TTWG et al: Pre-announcement of CR for CSS 2.2 & request for reviews<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0017.html> When can we schedule a review and gather feedback?


Agenda+ IMSC (now incorporates Unicode ticket)

ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-509<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/509>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/509/edit>     open    Propose liaison text for the imsc 1.1 fpwd<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/509>        Pierre-Anthony Lemieux  2017-10-12      TTML IMSC 2.0<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/10>

IMSC Tests released as v1.0.0 at https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests/releases/tag/v1.0.0 .

IMSC 1.0.1
IMSC 1.0.1 CR published at https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/CR-ttml-imsc1.0.1-20170713/

IMSC 1.0.1 Implementation report at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/IMSC1_0_1_Implementation_Report

IMSC 1 Rec available at https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/REC-ttml-imsc1-20160421/

Patent policy call for exclusions sent 2017-02-03, archived at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2017Feb/0006.html


Editor's draft is directly viewable at http://w3c.github.io/imsc/imsc1/spec/ttml-ww-profiles.html

IMSC Implementation Page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/IMSC1_implementation_page.
IMSC Tests repository: https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests

vNext Requirements

IMSCvNext Requirements editor's draft: https://w3c.github.io/imsc-vnext-reqs/
IMSCvNext Requirements repository: https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs

IMSC 1.1 FPWD: https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-ttml-imsc1.1-20171017/

PROPOSAL: Publish IMSC v1.1 Requirements as a WG Note

Glenn provided some feedback, to discuss.

Unicode CLDR discussion
Unicode ticket is at http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915

Pierre's response to the recent update is at http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915#comment:9

Email response from Shervin at Unicode https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0018.html


Merged IMSC pull requests:
Clarify relationship with imsc1.0.1<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/264>
Open IMSC pull requests:
Clarify fillLineGap semantics when applied to successive p elements<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/269>
Updated profile signaling and resolution to match TTML2 semantics<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/267>
Clarify relationship to TTML2 and deprecation model<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/266>
New or discussed IMSC issues: None
Closed IMSC issues:
Region constraints are the same as in IMSCvNext<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/262>
Extensions should be easier to identify<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/260>

Merged IMSC Tests pull requests: None
Open IMSC Tests pull requests: None
New or discussed IMSC Tests issues: None
Closed IMSC Tests issues: None

Merged IMSCvNext Requirements pull requests: None
Open IMSCvNext Requirements pull requests: None
New or discussed IMSCvNext Requirements issues: None
Closed IMSCvNext Requirements issues: None

Agenda+ TTML issue assignment and progress tracking (20 minutes maximum)

We have now published the WD for WR however there are still many issues open, and we intend also to apply multiple fixes as already agreed for TTML1.

At the moment of writing this agenda, there are:

TTML1 issues:

  *   5 open issues with no milestone, none marked as discussed and agreed
  *   37 open issues in "3rd Ed" milestone, 15 marked as discussed and agreed
  *   11 open issues in "3rd Ed Test Suite" milestone, none marked as discussed and agreed

TTML2 issues:

  *   2 open issues on the Editor's CR Work List milestone, none of which has a PR and both of which are horizontal review comments marked WR-pending;
  *   101 open issues with no milestone, none of which has a PR open label.

Agenda+ TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs, editorial actions etc

Actions:
ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-443<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443/edit>     open    Prepare a document showing mapping arib ruby extension features to ttml2 for use as a liaison document to arib.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443>   Glenn Adams     2016-08-26      TTML2<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/4>
ACTION-462<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/462>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/462/edit>     open    Create issue on ttml2 to add "mapping from other versions and profiles of ttml"<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/462>   Glenn Adams     2016-04-28      TTML2<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/4>

Most recent WD published at https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-ttml2-20170630/


Merged TTML1 Pull Requests: None
Merged TTML2 Pull Requests: None
Open TTML1 Pull Requests: None
Open TTML2 Pull Requests:
Issue 0406 style semantics <https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/470>
Add document proceessing context override semantics for effective con…<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/468>
New TTML1 Issues: None
New TTML2 Issues: None
Closed TTML1 Issues: None
Closed TTML2 Issues:
Question for region visibility with `whenActive`<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/475>
Discussed TTML1 Issues: None
Discussed TTML2 Issues:
Processor backwards compatibility.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/458>
contentProfiles and processorProfiles delimiters possibly ambiguous<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/474>
Allow detection of the EBU-TT-D content profile.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/467>
Create CSS mapping for tts:fontShear based on CSS skew<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/471>
Add equivalent CSS properties to style attributes<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/406>
Definition of tts:fillLineGap does not match itts:fillLineGap as specified in IMSC 1.0.1.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/429>

Focus topic(s) for this week

Issues

Iterate through open issues with no PR – decide action to take on each, e.g. defer to CR, defer to TTML.next, close etc.

If there are any issues that we decide need to be resolved before WR a proposal for the fix is needed ASAP (basically, it's too late already unless it can easily be agreed by the group).


Current open issues: https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues and https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues
See spreadsheet of editorial actions at https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/blob/master/spec/ednotes.xlsx

Edit/build instructions now in README in ttml2/spec/ at https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/blob/master/spec/README.md



Agenda+ WebVTT review feedback

ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-396<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396/edit>     open    Produce evidence of request for wide review for webvtt, for the archive<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396>   David Singer    2015-04-17      WebVTT 1.0<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/8>
ACTION-502<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/502>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/502/edit>     open    Explain to david that we need a more consistent disposition of comments for webvtt.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/502>       Thierry Michel  2017-08-10      WebVTT 1.0<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/8>



Discussion on WebVTT review feedback and next steps.

What are the WG's views on the dispositions generated by the CG?

Resolve to publish a new WD? (not strictly necessary)

WebVTT Wide review wiki page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebVTT_Wide_Review

Open Pull requests:
Fix #270: Add classes to specify text color<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/279>
Clarify the "WebVTT cue settings list" definition.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/388>
Add a "User agents that do not support CSS" conformance class.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/389>
Add default color and background color names for applicable classes.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/395>
Add some explanatory text about the different types of VTT files.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/394>
Region clarification issue376<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/400>
Clarify line cue setting specification.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/399>
Break up section 6 a bit more to make it more readable.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/398>
Fix up algorithm markup and improve a bikeshed style.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/396>
Merged Pull requests:
Move definition of chapter title text<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/390>
New issues:
Break down processing model in §6.1<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/397>
voice attribute is either voice, title or a "value" attribute<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/401>
5.4 9 token loop, current becomes its parent<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/402>
Cue identifier can't be matched by standard css rules<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/403>
::cue and ::cue-region pseudo selectors shouldn't allow selectors<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/404>
Throw exception when setting region id "-->" ?<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/405>
Closed issues:
Wide Review Comment 2017: Chapter location for defining WebVTT chapter title text<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/362>
Recently discussed issues:
Clarify the "WebVTT cue settings list" definition.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/388>
Add default color and background color names for applicable classes.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/395>
Add some explanatory text about the different types of VTT files.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/394>
Add a "User agents that do not support CSS" conformance class.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/389>
Wide Review Comment 2017: serialisation and parsing<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/367>
Wide Review Comment 2017: positioning with cue box vs region<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/376>
Wide Review Comment 2017: Positioning - are region height and width used?<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/377>
Wide Review Comment 2017: Use of lines as positioning constructs<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/378>
Wide Review Comment 2017: default font size and line heights<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/371>
Wide Review Comment 2017: Metadata delimiters<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/380>
Wide Review Comment 2017: line cue setting direction<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/382>
Wide Review Comment 2017: hard to understand because of terminology<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/381>
Wide Review Comment 2017: Algorithmic specification<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/384>
Wide Review Comment 2017: formatting issues<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/385>
Wide Review Comment 2017: unspecified edge margins make accurate positioning impossible<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/379>

Agenda+ HDR in PNG [placeholder agenda item]

We published this Note at https://www.w3.org/TR/png-hdr-pq/ (republished 25th July incorporating fix for typo)

Repo for PQ HDR in PNG: https://github.com/w3c/png-hdr-pq
Draft WG Note: https://w3c.github.io/png-hdr-pq/

Merged pull requests: None
Open pull requests: None
New or discussed issues: None
Closed issues: None

Agenda+ HTMLCue proposal progress update. [placeholder agenda item]


ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-441<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441/edit>     open    Kick off the analysis work on the vttcue carrying html idea.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441>      Andreas Tai     2015-11-05


See https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Apr/0012.html for further information on this, this week.

Also HTML import and HTMLCue?<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Sep/0003.html> email from 2016-09-06.

See also the notes from the TAG meeting (see agenda item above) at which the inability to instantiate TextTrackCue objects in most browsers was mentioned.



Agenda+ AOB

References

Wiki http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText






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