{agenda} TTWG Meeting 2017-10-19 from Nigel Megitt on 2017-10-17 (public-tt@w3.org from October 2017)

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 16:48:47 +0000
To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <D60C0105.4C133%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
This meeting is scheduled for up to 120m. Please be ready for a prompt start at 10:03am Boston time.

We have a lot to cover, including IMSCvNext requirements, TTML2 wide review comments and WebVTT wide review comments so we are likely to use the whole 2 hours.

Our teleconference is scheduled with reference to Boston Time, the correct time of this teleconference in your locale may change.

Check https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20171019T10&p1=43

Thursdays 10:03am-12:00pm Boston local

Joining details:

see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2016Oct/0009.html
(members-only link – if you can't see this and wish to join please contact me)

Agenda+ Assign Roles

Chairs: Nigel Megitt

Scribe: usually Nigel – open to offers!

Regrets: None

Activity since last meeting:
See individual agenda items for recent activity on specific products

Cross-product TTWG board: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/board/
We are still using tracker for actions unrelated to issues.
Please do not add or modify issues in tracker!

IMSC: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pulse
TTML1: https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pulse
TTML2: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pulse
TTML Profile Registry: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pulse
TTML-WebVTT mapping: https://github.com/w3c/ttml-webvtt-mapping/pulse
WebVTT: https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pulse

Agenda+ Prioritise discussion for this meeting and look ahead

Check-point for order of topics – I'd suggest, subject to reordering:
1. TPAC 2017 advanced planning
2. TTML1 and TTML2 compatibility in practice
3. TTML2 Wide & Horizontal Review
4. IMSC including vNext requirements Note publication proposal
5. TTML issue assignment and progress tracking
6. TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs, editorial actions etc
7. WebVTT feedback (David Singer to Chair if present)
8. HDR in PNG (placeholder)
9. Progress on HTMLCue proposal (placeholder)
10. AOB – please notify of any other AOB now!


Reminder re future milestones and meetings:

October meetings:

Thursday 26th October: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)

IMSC 2 and TTML2 publication events: see the timeline of upcoming work at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/Publications#Timeline_of_TTML2_and_IMSC2_work

Further ahead:

Thursday 2nd November TTWG phone meeting 2 Hours (finalise TPAC agenda) <- DST mismatch between USA and Europe
Thursday 9th November: TTWG Face to Face meeting at TPAC
Friday 10th November: TTWG Face to Face meeting at TPAC
Thursday 16th November: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 23rd November: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 30th November: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)

Agenda+ TPAC 2017 Advanced planning

Please be ready to discuss TPAC scheduling of agenda items

W3C TPAC 2017 event page: https://www.w3.org/2017/11/TPAC/Overview.html
TTWG TPAC2017 wiki page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2017

I have requested a Polycom phone and flipchart.

We will jointly meet the Web & TV IG on the Monday, and have invited CSS WG to attend our meeting on the Friday, times to be confirmed.

Agenda+ TTML1 and TTML2 compatibility in practice

Reference Cyril's work to analyse the actual practical differences – is this complete? If it is, can we address the specifics to understand the alignment/mis-alignment? Are there any resulting actions?

<https://docs..google.com/document/d/1Ri7RBBsbIK9SRxA1KsHRejXbYBuL4CRRrbmEZRbwZpg/edit?usp=sharing>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ri7RBBsbIK9SRxA1KsHRejXbYBuL4CRRrbmEZRbwZpg/edit?usp=sharing

(note that there was an error in the underlying URL of the link that Cyril sent, which had an extra . between docs and google – the above link should be correct!)

Agenda+ TTML2 Wide and Horizontal Review

ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-508<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/508>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/508/edit>     open    Check if there are editorial/substantive labels for ttml2 issues and add if not.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/508>  Thierry Michel  2017-10-12      TTML2<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/4>

Can the above action be closed?

CSS WG review

Minutes from CSS WG Paris F2F that Nigel attended remotely on Friday 4th August: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2017Sep/0000.html
This is at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/CSSRequirements
The CSS WG has been invited to meet us at TPAC on the Friday.
We also need to explain what the use case is for the features, rather than just each styling feature itself.

TAG design review issue: https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/138

CSS Review of TTML2, threads: FW: TTML2 horizontal review with CSS<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0013.html> and Fwd: Subtitle/caption styling + TTML + CSS<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0019.html>

Internationalisation review by r12a has generated several issues on TTML2 and comments on existing issues (see below), this week mainly about alignment with relatively recent CSS developments.

CSS 2.2 request for reviews from TTWG et al: Pre-announcement of CR for CSS 2.2 & request for reviews<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0017.html> When can we schedule a review and gather feedback?


Agenda+ IMSC (now incorporates Unicode ticket)

ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-509<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/509>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/509/edit>     open    Propose liaison text for the imsc 1.1 fpwd<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/509>        Pierre-Anthony Lemieux  2017-10-12      TTML IMSC 2.0<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/10>

IMSC Tests released as v1.0.0 at https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests/releases/tag/v1.0.0 .

IMSC 1.0.1
IMSC 1.0.1 CR published at https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/CR-ttml-imsc1.0.1-20170713/
IMSC 1.0.1 Implementation report at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/IMSC1_0_1_Implementation_Report
IMSC 1 Rec available at https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/REC-ttml-imsc1-20160421/
Patent policy call for exclusions sent 2017-02-03, archived at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2017Feb/0006.html

Editor's draft is directly viewable at http://w3c.github.io/imsc/imsc1/spec/ttml-ww-profiles.html
IMSC Implementation Page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/IMSC1_implementation_page.
IMSC Tests repository: https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests

vNext Requirements

IMSCvNext Requirements editor's draft: https://w3c.github.io/imsc-vnext-reqs/
IMSCvNext Requirements repository: https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs

IMSC 1.1 FPWD: https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-ttml-imsc1.1-20171017/

PROPOSAL: Publish IMSC v1.1 Requirements as a WG Note

Glenn provided some feedback, to discuss.

Unicode CLDR discussion
Unicode ticket is at http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915
Pierre's response to the recent update is at http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915#comment:9
Email response from Shervin at Unicode https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0018.html

Merged IMSC pull requests: None
Open IMSC pull requests:
Clarify relationship with imsc1.0.1<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/264>
New or discussed IMSC issues:
Extensions should be easier to identify<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/260>
IMSCvNext profile signaling and version<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/261>
Region constraints are the same as in IMSCvNext<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/262>
itts:fillLineGap is unclear about what it is filling between exactly<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/263>
Should UTF-8 'as specified in' point to the Encoding spec?<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/253>
What fillLineGap does/ affects<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/254>
Closed IMSC issues: None

Merged IMSC Tests pull requests: None
Open IMSC Tests pull requests: None
New or discussed IMSC Tests issues:
EBU-TT-D tests<https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests/issues/38>
Closed IMSC Tests issues: None

Merged IMSCvNext Requirements pull requests: None
Open IMSCvNext Requirements pull requests: None
New or discussed IMSCvNext Requirements issues: None
Closed IMSCvNext Requirements issues: None

Agenda+ TTML issue assignment and progress tracking (20 minutes maximum)

We have now published the WD for WR however there are still many issues open, and we intend also to apply multiple fixes as already agreed for TTML1.

At the moment of writing this agenda, there are:

TTML1 issues:

  *   5 open issues with no milestone, none marked as discussed and agreed
  *   37 open issues in "3rd Ed" milestone, 15 marked as discussed and agreed
  *   11 open issues in "3rd Ed Test Suite" milestone, none marked as discussed and agreed

TTML2 issues:

  *   2 open issues on the Editor's CR Work List milestone, none of which has a PR and both of which are horizontal review comments marked WR-pending;
  *   101 open issues with no milestone, none of which has a PR open label.

Agenda+ TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs, editorial actions etc

Actions:
ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-443<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443/edit>     open    Prepare a document showing mapping arib ruby extension features to ttml2 for use as a liaison document to arib.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443>   Glenn Adams     2016-08-26      TTML2<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/4>
ACTION-462<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/462>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/462/edit>     open    Create issue on ttml2 to add "mapping from other versions and profiles of ttml"<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/462>   Glenn Adams     2016-04-28      TTML2<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/4>

Most recent WD published at https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-ttml2-20170630/

Merged TTML1 Pull Requests: None
Merged TTML2 Pull Requests: None
Open TTML1 Pull Requests: None
Open TTML2 Pull Requests:
Add document proceessing context override semantics for effective con…<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/468>
New TTML1 Issues:
Examples in section O use an unusual tts:displayAlign setting<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/254>
Clarify #backgroundColor regarding inclusion of block, inline, region semantics.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/255>
New TTML2 Issues:
Review references.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/457>
Processor backwards compatibility.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/458>
Examples in section S use an unusual tts:displayAlign setting <https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/459>
SMPTE backgroundImage annotation<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/460>
Missing section 11.2.1 in table of content<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/466>
Allow detection of the EBU-TT-D content profile.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/467>
Closed TTML1 Issues: None
Closed TTML2 Issues:
[XML 1.1] reference citations should be added.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/464>
[WEBAUDIO] reference should be informative.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/463>
[SSML] reference should be informative.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/462>
[HTML5] reference should be informative.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/461>
Typo in tts:opacity<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/465>
Discussed TTML1 Issues: None
Discussed TTML2 Issues:
Add equivalent CSS properties to style attributes<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/406>
Change styling to use CSS.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/444>
Question about #background-color vs #backgroundColor.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/455>
Reference CSS color semantic<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/413>
Is ttp:version="2" required if ttp:contentProfiles is present? <https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/435>

Focus topic(s) for this week

Issues

Iterate through open issues with no PR – decide action to take on each, e.g. defer to CR, defer to TTML.next, close etc.

If there are any issues that we decide need to be resolved before WR a proposal for the fix is needed ASAP (basically, it's too late already unless it can easily be agreed by the group).


Current open issues: https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues and https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues
See spreadsheet of editorial actions at https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/blob/master/spec/ednotes.xlsx
Edit/build instructions now in README in ttml2/spec/ at https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/blob/master/spec/README.md


Agenda+ WebVTT review feedback

ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-396<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396/edit>     open    Produce evidence of request for wide review for webvtt, for the archive<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396>   David Singer    2015-04-17      WebVTT 1.0<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/8>
ACTION-502<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/502>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/502/edit>     open    Explain to david that we need a more consistent disposition of comments for webvtt.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/502>       Thierry Michel  2017-08-10      WebVTT 1.0<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/8>



Discussion on WebVTT review feedback and next steps.

What are the WG's views on the dispositions generated by the CG?

Resolve to publish a new WD? (not strictly necessary)

WebVTT Wide review wiki page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebVTT_Wide_Review

Open Pull requests:
Fix #270: Add classes to specify text color<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/279>
Clarify the "WebVTT cue settings list" definition.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/388>
Add a "User agents that do not support CSS" conformance class.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/389>
Move definition of chapter title text<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/390>
Add default color and background color names for applicable classes.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/395>
Add some explanatory text about the different types of VTT files.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/394>
Merged Pull requests: None
New issues: None
Closed issues: None
Recently discussed issues:
Move definition of chapter title text<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/390>
Need tests for :cue-region(id) pseudo-class<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/355>
Wide Review Comment 2017: Distinction between cue payload types<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/363>
Wide Review Comment 2017: Chapter location for defining WebVTT chapter title text<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/362>
Wide Review Comment 2017: Text color must be mandatory<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/365>
Wide Review Comment 2017: serialisation and parsing<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/367>
Wide Review Comment 2017: Term definition with empty content<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/364>
Clarify the "WebVTT cue settings list" definition.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/388>
Wide Review Comment 2017: Term "WebVTT cue settings list" defined twice<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/360>
Wide Review Comment 2017: Conformance Classes not complete<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/361>
Add a "User agents that do not support CSS" conformance class.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/389>

Agenda+ HDR in PNG [placeholder agenda item]

We published this Note at https://www.w3.org/TR/png-hdr-pq/ (republished 25th July incorporating fix for typo)

Repo for PQ HDR in PNG: https://github.com/w3c/png-hdr-pq
Draft WG Note: https://w3c.github.io/png-hdr-pq/

Merged pull requests: None
Open pull requests: None
New or discussed issues: None
Closed issues: None

Agenda+ HTMLCue proposal progress update. [placeholder agenda item]


ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-441<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441/edit>     open    Kick off the analysis work on the vttcue carrying html idea.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441>      Andreas Tai     2015-11-05


See https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Apr/0012.html for further information on this, this week.

Also HTML import and HTMLCue?<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Sep/0003.html> email from 2016-09-06.

See also the notes from the TAG meeting (see agenda item above) at which the inability to instantiate TextTrackCue objects in most browsers was mentioned.



Agenda+ AOB

References

Wiki http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText
Received on Tuesday, 17 October 2017 16:49:19 UTC