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Re: {minutes} TTWG Meeting 29/5/2014

From: Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com>
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 09:07:45 +0800
Message-ID: <CACQ=j+eXo46PVmuZZVrm7RN4Lq08-aGH0+=uzx3WyjhR9RgeJg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Cc: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
couple of comments inline


On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 11:01 PM, Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
wrote:

>  Minutes available at: http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html
>
>
>    [1]W3C
>
>       [1] http://www.w3.org/
>
>                                - DRAFT -
>
>                 Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
>
> 29 May 2014
>
>    See also: [2]IRC log
>
>       [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-irc
>
> Attendees
>
>    Present
>           pal, mike, nigel, jdsmith
>
>    Regrets
>           Frans, de, Jong
>
>    Chair
>           nigel
>
>    Scribe
>           nigel
>
> Contents
>
>      * [3]Topics
>          1. [4]IMSC Issues raised
>          2. [5]F2F In Geneva
>      * [6]Summary of Action Items
>      __________________________________________________________
>
>    <trackbot> Date: 29 May 2014
>
>    <scribe> scribeNick: nigel
>
> IMSC Issues raised
>
>    issue-320?
>
>    <trackbot> issue-320 -- Is normative SMPTE 2052 reference okay?
>    -- raised
>
>    <trackbot>
>    [7]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/320
>
>       [7] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/320
>
>    nigel: 3 main concerns: licensing, quality of specification and
>    structural references.
>
>    pal: SMPTE has requested that we add backgroundImage to TTML2
>    so we can move to that definition in IMSC2
>
>    nigel: We can define backgroundImage in IMSC1 and then port it
>    into TTML2 and make the namespace change now rather than in
>    IMSC2.
>
>    pal: Rather than guessing what the TTML2 solution will be now
>    we would be able to move more quickly if we reference the
>    SMPTE-TT definition and then update IMSC 2 when the TTML 2
>    feature has been agreed.
>    ... We could guess wrong and end up with 3 approaches instead
>    of 2!
>
>    nigel: That leaves the second concern of precision in terms of
>    2052-1 feature definition.
>
>    mike: If there is a gap then we can simply add the gaps to
>    IMSC1.
>    ... If there are any areas that are unclear in 2052-1 we should
>    a) communicate them to SMPTE and b) clarify it for our
>    purposes.
>
>    pal: I don't have a concern with smpte:backgroundImage but
>    we'll address it when we find one.
>
>    nigel: I've set this issue to Pending Review and added a note
>    for the approach we plan to take.
>
>    issue-312?
>
>    <trackbot> issue-312 -- forcedDisplay attribute is metadata so
>    should be in ttm not tts namespace -- open
>
>    <trackbot>
>    [8]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/312
>
>       [8] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/312
>
>    nigel: I raised this due to the wording in the current draft of
>    IMSC 1
>
>    pal: Forced subtitles are those which are displayed regardless
>    of the user's preference to display or hide subtitles. An
>    example is translated subtitles in the Avatar film.
>    ... The idea is to deliver a single document that will work for
>    both the standard subtitle use case and the forced case, and
>    for the presentation to be dependent on the user preference.
>
>    mike: In the context of a media file it's not simple to select
>    multiple TTML documents simultaneously so what's forced or not
>    forced needs to be in the same document.
>    ... Even when the subtitle track is not selected to be visible
>    then the decoder should present the forced subtitles on the
>    screen. The use case also includes translations of signs
>    visible in video in foreign languages.
>    ... Clearly we need more definition of the semantics of this
>    attribute.
>
>    nigel: We have two change proposals that can provide for this
>    feature, which would result in changes in TTML2
>
>    pal: My proposal would be to adopt the current mechanism and
>    then switch in IMSC 2 dependent on TTML2.
>
>    mike: concurs with pal.
>
>    nigel: The forcedDisplay mode is currently in the ttml
>    namespace, yes?
>
>    pal: It is, because I could not reference the DECE namespace.
>    One approach would be to define an IMSC1 specific namespaces,
>    or to keep in ttml namespaces and when we get to TTML2
>    deprecate it or indicate 'don't use this'.
>
>    mike: We can't extend the ttml namespace can we, without
>    modifying TTML1?
>
> we can only modify the ttml namespace(s) in TTML2 at this juncture; we
can't add new features/extensions to TTML1; forcedDisplay could be defined
in an IMSC specific extension namespace though;

also, I would suggest that if a forcedDisplay signal is present in a
document, there should also be a top-level metadata attribute (on tt
element), such as usesForcedDisplay, that signals that forcedDisplay is
used somewhere in the document.


>
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: pal Add wording to describe semantics of
>    forcedDisplay in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312 [recorded in
>    [9]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action01]
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-292 - Add wording to describe
>    semantics of forceddisplay in imsc 1 for issue-312 [on
>    Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2014-06-05].
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: pal Research appropriate namespace for
>    forcedDisplay feature in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312 [recorded in
>    [10]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action02]
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-293 - Research appropriate namespace
>    for forceddisplay feature in imsc 1 for issue-312 [on
>    Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2014-06-05].
>
> F2F In Geneva
>
>    <Dsinger_> 70 for 2 days
>
>    <Dsinger_> I would say use canteen myself
>
>    nigel: There will be a fee for food which needs to be agreed in
>    advance, 70 CHF for 2 days for a proper lunch.
>    ... we can choose to use this or use the canteen which is
>    cheaper and more basic, and doesn't offer a proper 'sit down
>    lunch'.
>    ... It's in the same place either way, but there's no advanced
>    planning needed to buy food in the canteen. The sit-down option
>    is more 'civilised' but takes longer.
>
>    mike: Subject to it being in the same place on the top floor at
>    EBU I think we should go for the non-prepaid option.
>
>    [11]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014
>
>      [11] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: nigel Create a sign-up wbs survey for Geneva.
>    [recorded in
>    [12]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action03]
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-294 - Create a sign-up wbs survey for
>    geneva. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-06-05].
>
>    nigel: we need some WebVTT folk too.
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: dsinger Socialise the Geneva F2F meeting
>    amongst the WebVTT community [recorded in
>    [13]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action04]
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-295 - Socialise the geneva f2f
>    meeting amongst the webvtt community [on David Singer - due
>    2014-06-05].
>
>    <Dsinger_> Bye
>
> Summary of Action Items
>
>    [NEW] ACTION: dsinger Socialise the Geneva F2F meeting amongst
>    the WebVTT community [recorded in
>    [14]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action04]
>    [NEW] ACTION: nigel Create a sign-up wbs survey for Geneva.
>    [recorded in
>    [15]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action03]
>    [NEW] ACTION: pal Add wording to describe semantics of
>    forcedDisplay in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312 [recorded in
>    [16]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action01]
>    [NEW] ACTION: pal Research appropriate namespace for
>    forcedDisplay feature in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312 [recorded in
>    [17]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action02]
>
>    [End of minutes]
>      __________________________________________________________
>
>
>     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [18]scribe.perl version
>     1.138 ([19]CVS log)
>     $Date: 2014-05-29 14:59:15 $
>      __________________________________________________________
>
>      [18] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
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>
>
Received on Friday, 30 May 2014 01:08:33 UTC

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