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Re: {minutes} TTWG Meeting 29/5/2014

From: Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com>
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 20:59:26 -0700
Message-ID: <CAF_7JxBAr-nwGHZQRQzYKAdXRnSKsCbYh19hpMSQ0Z_aUXM8uw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com>
Cc: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>, Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
>  forcedDisplay could be defined in an IMSC specific extension namespace though;

Sounds good! Thanks.

-- Pierre



On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com> wrote:
> couple of comments inline
>
>
> On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 11:01 PM, Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
> wrote:
>>
>> Minutes available at: http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html
>>
>>
>>    [1]W3C
>>
>>       [1] http://www.w3.org/
>>
>>                                - DRAFT -
>>
>>                 Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
>>
>> 29 May 2014
>>
>>    See also: [2]IRC log
>>
>>       [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-irc
>>
>> Attendees
>>
>>    Present
>>           pal, mike, nigel, jdsmith
>>
>>    Regrets
>>           Frans, de, Jong
>>
>>    Chair
>>           nigel
>>
>>    Scribe
>>           nigel
>>
>> Contents
>>
>>      * [3]Topics
>>          1. [4]IMSC Issues raised
>>          2. [5]F2F In Geneva
>>      * [6]Summary of Action Items
>>      __________________________________________________________
>>
>>    <trackbot> Date: 29 May 2014
>>
>>    <scribe> scribeNick: nigel
>>
>> IMSC Issues raised
>>
>>    issue-320?
>>
>>    <trackbot> issue-320 -- Is normative SMPTE 2052 reference okay?
>>    -- raised
>>
>>    <trackbot>
>>    [7]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/320
>>
>>       [7] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/320
>>
>>    nigel: 3 main concerns: licensing, quality of specification and
>>    structural references.
>>
>>    pal: SMPTE has requested that we add backgroundImage to TTML2
>>    so we can move to that definition in IMSC2
>>
>>    nigel: We can define backgroundImage in IMSC1 and then port it
>>    into TTML2 and make the namespace change now rather than in
>>    IMSC2.
>>
>>    pal: Rather than guessing what the TTML2 solution will be now
>>    we would be able to move more quickly if we reference the
>>    SMPTE-TT definition and then update IMSC 2 when the TTML 2
>>    feature has been agreed.
>>    ... We could guess wrong and end up with 3 approaches instead
>>    of 2!
>>
>>    nigel: That leaves the second concern of precision in terms of
>>    2052-1 feature definition.
>>
>>    mike: If there is a gap then we can simply add the gaps to
>>    IMSC1.
>>    ... If there are any areas that are unclear in 2052-1 we should
>>    a) communicate them to SMPTE and b) clarify it for our
>>    purposes.
>>
>>    pal: I don't have a concern with smpte:backgroundImage but
>>    we'll address it when we find one.
>>
>>    nigel: I've set this issue to Pending Review and added a note
>>    for the approach we plan to take.
>>
>>    issue-312?
>>
>>    <trackbot> issue-312 -- forcedDisplay attribute is metadata so
>>    should be in ttm not tts namespace -- open
>>
>>    <trackbot>
>>    [8]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/312
>>
>>       [8] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/312
>>
>>    nigel: I raised this due to the wording in the current draft of
>>    IMSC 1
>>
>>    pal: Forced subtitles are those which are displayed regardless
>>    of the user's preference to display or hide subtitles. An
>>    example is translated subtitles in the Avatar film.
>>    ... The idea is to deliver a single document that will work for
>>    both the standard subtitle use case and the forced case, and
>>    for the presentation to be dependent on the user preference.
>>
>>    mike: In the context of a media file it's not simple to select
>>    multiple TTML documents simultaneously so what's forced or not
>>    forced needs to be in the same document.
>>    ... Even when the subtitle track is not selected to be visible
>>    then the decoder should present the forced subtitles on the
>>    screen. The use case also includes translations of signs
>>    visible in video in foreign languages.
>>    ... Clearly we need more definition of the semantics of this
>>    attribute.
>>
>>    nigel: We have two change proposals that can provide for this
>>    feature, which would result in changes in TTML2
>>
>>    pal: My proposal would be to adopt the current mechanism and
>>    then switch in IMSC 2 dependent on TTML2.
>>
>>    mike: concurs with pal.
>>
>>    nigel: The forcedDisplay mode is currently in the ttml
>>    namespace, yes?
>>
>>    pal: It is, because I could not reference the DECE namespace.
>>    One approach would be to define an IMSC1 specific namespaces,
>>    or to keep in ttml namespaces and when we get to TTML2
>>    deprecate it or indicate 'don't use this'.
>>
>>    mike: We can't extend the ttml namespace can we, without
>>    modifying TTML1?
>
> we can only modify the ttml namespace(s) in TTML2 at this juncture; we can't
> add new features/extensions to TTML1; forcedDisplay could be defined in an
> IMSC specific extension namespace though;
>
> also, I would suggest that if a forcedDisplay signal is present in a
> document, there should also be a top-level metadata attribute (on tt
> element), such as usesForcedDisplay, that signals that forcedDisplay is used
> somewhere in the document.
>
>>
>>    <scribe> ACTION: pal Add wording to describe semantics of
>>    forcedDisplay in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312 [recorded in
>>    [9]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action01]
>>
>>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-292 - Add wording to describe
>>    semantics of forceddisplay in imsc 1 for issue-312 [on
>>    Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2014-06-05].
>>
>>    <scribe> ACTION: pal Research appropriate namespace for
>>    forcedDisplay feature in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312 [recorded in
>>    [10]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action02]
>>
>>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-293 - Research appropriate namespace
>>    for forceddisplay feature in imsc 1 for issue-312 [on
>>    Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2014-06-05].
>>
>> F2F In Geneva
>>
>>    <Dsinger_> 70 for 2 days
>>
>>    <Dsinger_> I would say use canteen myself
>>
>>    nigel: There will be a fee for food which needs to be agreed in
>>    advance, 70 CHF for 2 days for a proper lunch.
>>    ... we can choose to use this or use the canteen which is
>>    cheaper and more basic, and doesn't offer a proper 'sit down
>>    lunch'.
>>    ... It's in the same place either way, but there's no advanced
>>    planning needed to buy food in the canteen. The sit-down option
>>    is more 'civilised' but takes longer.
>>
>>    mike: Subject to it being in the same place on the top floor at
>>    EBU I think we should go for the non-prepaid option.
>>
>>    [11]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014
>>
>>      [11] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014
>>
>>    <scribe> ACTION: nigel Create a sign-up wbs survey for Geneva.
>>    [recorded in
>>    [12]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action03]
>>
>>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-294 - Create a sign-up wbs survey for
>>    geneva. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-06-05].
>>
>>    nigel: we need some WebVTT folk too.
>>
>>    <scribe> ACTION: dsinger Socialise the Geneva F2F meeting
>>    amongst the WebVTT community [recorded in
>>    [13]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action04]
>>
>>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-295 - Socialise the geneva f2f
>>    meeting amongst the webvtt community [on David Singer - due
>>    2014-06-05].
>>
>>    <Dsinger_> Bye
>>
>> Summary of Action Items
>>
>>    [NEW] ACTION: dsinger Socialise the Geneva F2F meeting amongst
>>    the WebVTT community [recorded in
>>    [14]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action04]
>>    [NEW] ACTION: nigel Create a sign-up wbs survey for Geneva.
>>    [recorded in
>>    [15]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action03]
>>    [NEW] ACTION: pal Add wording to describe semantics of
>>    forcedDisplay in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312 [recorded in
>>    [16]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action01]
>>    [NEW] ACTION: pal Research appropriate namespace for
>>    forcedDisplay feature in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312 [recorded in
>>    [17]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action02]
>>
>>    [End of minutes]
>>      __________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [18]scribe.perl version
>>     1.138 ([19]CVS log)
>>     $Date: 2014-05-29 14:59:15 $
>>      __________________________________________________________
>>
>>      [18] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>>      [19] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
>>
>
Received on Friday, 30 May 2014 04:00:16 UTC

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