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{minutes} TTWG Meeting 29/5/2014

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 15:01:53 +0000
To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <CFAD0A0E.1E7DA%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Minutes available at: http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

29 May 2014

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-irc

Attendees

   Present
          pal, mike, nigel, jdsmith

   Regrets
          Frans, de, Jong

   Chair
          nigel

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]IMSC Issues raised
         2. [5]F2F In Geneva
     * [6]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 29 May 2014

   <scribe> scribeNick: nigel

IMSC Issues raised

   issue-320?

   <trackbot> issue-320 -- Is normative SMPTE 2052 reference okay?
   -- raised

   <trackbot>
   [7]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/320

      [7] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/320

   nigel: 3 main concerns: licensing, quality of specification and
   structural references.

   pal: SMPTE has requested that we add backgroundImage to TTML2
   so we can move to that definition in IMSC2

   nigel: We can define backgroundImage in IMSC1 and then port it
   into TTML2 and make the namespace change now rather than in
   IMSC2.

   pal: Rather than guessing what the TTML2 solution will be now
   we would be able to move more quickly if we reference the
   SMPTE-TT definition and then update IMSC 2 when the TTML 2
   feature has been agreed.
   ... We could guess wrong and end up with 3 approaches instead
   of 2!

   nigel: That leaves the second concern of precision in terms of
   2052-1 feature definition.

   mike: If there is a gap then we can simply add the gaps to
   IMSC1.
   ... If there are any areas that are unclear in 2052-1 we should
   a) communicate them to SMPTE and b) clarify it for our
   purposes.

   pal: I don't have a concern with smpte:backgroundImage but
   we'll address it when we find one.

   nigel: I've set this issue to Pending Review and added a note
   for the approach we plan to take.

   issue-312?

   <trackbot> issue-312 -- forcedDisplay attribute is metadata so
   should be in ttm not tts namespace -- open

   <trackbot>
   [8]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/312

      [8] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/312

   nigel: I raised this due to the wording in the current draft of
   IMSC 1

   pal: Forced subtitles are those which are displayed regardless
   of the user's preference to display or hide subtitles. An
   example is translated subtitles in the Avatar film.
   ... The idea is to deliver a single document that will work for
   both the standard subtitle use case and the forced case, and
   for the presentation to be dependent on the user preference.

   mike: In the context of a media file it's not simple to select
   multiple TTML documents simultaneously so what's forced or not
   forced needs to be in the same document.
   ... Even when the subtitle track is not selected to be visible
   then the decoder should present the forced subtitles on the
   screen. The use case also includes translations of signs
   visible in video in foreign languages.
   ... Clearly we need more definition of the semantics of this
   attribute.

   nigel: We have two change proposals that can provide for this
   feature, which would result in changes in TTML2

   pal: My proposal would be to adopt the current mechanism and
   then switch in IMSC 2 dependent on TTML2.

   mike: concurs with pal.

   nigel: The forcedDisplay mode is currently in the ttml
   namespace, yes?

   pal: It is, because I could not reference the DECE namespace.
   One approach would be to define an IMSC1 specific namespaces,
   or to keep in ttml namespaces and when we get to TTML2
   deprecate it or indicate 'don't use this'.

   mike: We can't extend the ttml namespace can we, without
   modifying TTML1?

   <scribe> ACTION: pal Add wording to describe semantics of
   forcedDisplay in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312 [recorded in
   [9]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-292 - Add wording to describe
   semantics of forceddisplay in imsc 1 for issue-312 [on
   Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2014-06-05].

   <scribe> ACTION: pal Research appropriate namespace for
   forcedDisplay feature in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312 [recorded in
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-293 - Research appropriate namespace
   for forceddisplay feature in imsc 1 for issue-312 [on
   Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2014-06-05].

F2F In Geneva

   <Dsinger_> 70 for 2 days

   <Dsinger_> I would say use canteen myself

   nigel: There will be a fee for food which needs to be agreed in
   advance, 70 CHF for 2 days for a proper lunch.
   ... we can choose to use this or use the canteen which is
   cheaper and more basic, and doesn't offer a proper 'sit down
   lunch'.
   ... It's in the same place either way, but there's no advanced
   planning needed to buy food in the canteen. The sit-down option
   is more 'civilised' but takes longer.

   mike: Subject to it being in the same place on the top floor at
   EBU I think we should go for the non-prepaid option.

   [11]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014

     [11] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014

   <scribe> ACTION: nigel Create a sign-up wbs survey for Geneva.
   [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-294 - Create a sign-up wbs survey for
   geneva. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-06-05].

   nigel: we need some WebVTT folk too.

   <scribe> ACTION: dsinger Socialise the Geneva F2F meeting
   amongst the WebVTT community [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-295 - Socialise the geneva f2f
   meeting amongst the webvtt community [on David Singer - due
   2014-06-05].

   <Dsinger_> Bye

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: dsinger Socialise the Geneva F2F meeting amongst
   the WebVTT community [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: nigel Create a sign-up wbs survey for Geneva.
   [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: pal Add wording to describe semantics of
   forcedDisplay in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312 [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: pal Research appropriate namespace for
   forcedDisplay feature in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312 [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-tt-minutes.html#action02]

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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