W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tracking@w3.org > March 2013

Re: New text Issue 25: Aggregated data: collection and use for audience measurement research

From: Rob van Eijk <rob@blaeu.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 17:28:31 +0100
To: Kathy Joe <kathy@esomar.org>
CC: Kimon Zorbas <vp@iabeurope.eu>, "peter@peterswire.net" <peter@peterswire.net>, "public-tracking@w3.org" <public-tracking@w3.org>, "justin@cdt.org" <justin@cdt.org>
Message-ID: <c0f83bb7-88d9-46fc-b8d0-a830b0f66a56@email.android.com>
Hi Kathy,

If you already take the position that you have a legitimate business interest to process the personal data, why do you need a exception under DNT? In that case you can ingnore DNT altogether.

Rob

Kathy Joe <kathy@esomar.org> wrote:

>Hi Rob,
> 
>Many thanks for your comments and yes we agree that panel members are a
>form
>of out of band consent and outside the scope of DNT.
> 
>As you know, we have proposed a very narrow case for audience
>measurement
>research. Specific measures are described to limit access to and
>protect the
>raw data whilst it is being stored for a limited period through
>pseudonymisation and contractual measures. This case is also contingent
>on
>data and aggregated reports not being used for other purposes and there
>being no return path to particular individuals or devices.
> 
>We believe that these steps seek to be aligned with the underlying
>principles set out by the Art. 29 WP that can be summarized as a)
>pseudonymisation is an important approach to risk limitation and b)
>consent
>forms one of a number of legal grounds for processing, which includes
>legitimate interests.
> 
>We believe that audience measurement research can be regarded as a
>legitimate interest as these impartial statistical measures promote
>trust in
>the buying and selling of online advertising which is the model by
>which the
>Internet remains free and accessible for all.
> 
>As I understand it, the Global Considerations Berlin meeting will
>discuss
>how W3C DNT could work in the EU context where first and third parties
>are
>expressed in different terms and the E Privacy law is interpreted
>differently between member states. Such interpretations may even change
>eg
>the Netherlands where it has been questioned if the explicit consent
>model
>is meaningful in providing citizens with a fundamental right to
>privacy, and
>thus is likely to transition to implied consent.
> 
>Unfortunately I will not be able to attend the meeting in person but we
>also
>think it would not be useful to discuss a narrow and specific use case
>such
>as audience measurement research as a test case in an environment where
>so
>much needs to be clarified first.
> 
>Best regards
> 
>
>Kathy Joe,
>ESOMAR. 
>From:  Rob van Eijk <rob@blaeu.com>
>Date:  Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:38 PM
>To:  Kimon Zorbas <vp@iabeurope.eu>, Kathy <kathy@esomar.org>, Peter
>Swire
><peter@peterswire.net>, "justin@cdt.org" <justin@cdt.org>,
>"public-tracking@w3.org" <public-tracking@w3.org>
>Subject:  Re: Fw: New text Issue 25: Aggregated data: collection and
>use for
>audience measurement research
>
>
>Kimon,
>
>There are at least 2 approaches. Let me point out 2 of them: One that
>formalizes the concept of tracking by starting with a definition. I
>would
>call this top - down. The other is finding out which phenomena are
>problematic and relevant. I would call this bottom up. The top - down
>approach needs a shared definition of tracking. The bottom - up
>approach
>does not need this at all.
>
>RobvE 
> 
>
>Kimon Zorbas <vp@iabeurope.eu> wrote:
>> Once again, all points at agreeing on a definition of tracking.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Kimon
>> 
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "Rob van Eijk" <rob@blaeu.com>
>> To: "Kimon Zorbas" <vp@iabeurope.eu>, "Kathy Joe" <kathy@esomar.org>,
>> "peter@peterswire.net" <peter@peterswire.net>, "justin@cdt.org"
>> <justin@cdt.org>, "public-tracking@w3.org" <public-tracking@w3.org>
>> Subject: Fw: New text Issue 25: Aggregated data: collection and use
>for
>> audience measurement research
>> Date: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 2:22 pm
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Kimon,
>> 
>> Lets take audience measurement as a usecase in the Global
>Considerations
>> meeting next week, and work from there. If text comes out of that
>effort, we
>> will feed it back to Issue 25.
>> 
>> My stance for the moment is that a DNT must be a strong and
>meaningful DNT
>> that also takes into account fundamental rights to privacy, not just
>arguments
>> that are geared toward legitimizing a business model that gave way to
>the
>> expression to not wanting to be tracked in the first place.
>> 
>> RobvE
>> 
>> Kimon Zorbas <vp@iabeurope.eu> wrote:
>>> Rob,
>>> 
>>> we need audience measurement. It's THE part of internet that
>underlines
>>> everything. It's only using data in aggregate and not about
>communicating
>>> back to users.
>>> 
>>> Why don't you tell us how you would like to change the text and we
>can work
>>> on wording, see if there can be a meaningful compromise?
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Kimon
>>> 
>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>> From: "Rob van Eijk" <rob@blaeu.com>
>>> To: "Kathy Joe" <kathy@esomar.org>, "peter@peterswire.net"
>>> <peter@peterswire.net>, "justin@cdt.org" <justin@cdt.org>,
>>> "public-tracking@w3.org" <public-tracking@w3.org>
>>> Subject: Fw: New text Issue 25: Aggregated data: collection and use
>for
>>> audience measurement research
>>> Date: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 2:02 pm
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks Kathy,
>>> 
>>> I want to add to the discussion that panel members are a form of out
>of band
>>> consent and can therefore be left out of scope for DNT.
>>> For users who have not opted-in to audience measurement, my position
>is that
>>> DNT must be meaningful. A wide interpretation of audience
>measurement under a
>>> generic exception for aggregated reporting should not be the way
>forward.
>>> 
>>> Talking shortly to David Stark on this, he suggested to increase
>transparence
>>> by using a visible element on a page, instead of a hidden pixel. I
>think it
>>> is a great idea. It enables transparency, and is an important step
>towards
>>> convincing users to give consent to audience measurement.
>>> 
>>> I will add to that, in the discussion here, that the pixel is not
>the right
>>> technology under DNT to fulfull the audience measurement need. My
>position is
>>> that if the technology is not capable of triggering an exception as
>suggested
>>> in the technical spec, the way forward should not be to allow for
>that
>>> limitation in technology throug an exception in the compliance spec.
>>> 
>>> In short, I raise severe concerns against the proposed text.
>>> 
>>> RobvE
>>> 
>>> Kathy Joe <kathy@esomar.org> wrote:
>>>> Here below is the revised text for issue 25 discussed with Justin
>and others
>>>> in the group with some modifications to take Justin's comments into
>account.
>>>> 
>>>> Information may be collected to create statistical measures of the
>reach in
>>>> relation to the total population, and frequency of exposure of the
>content
>>>> to the online audience, including paid components of web pages. One
>such
>>>> method is through using a panel of users who have affirmatively
>agreed to
>>>> have their media consumption and web surfing behavior measured
>across sites.
>>>> 
>>>> The panel output is calibrated by counting actual hits on tagged
>content and
>>>> re-adjusting the results in order to ensure data produced from the
>panel
>>>> accurately represents the whole audience. The counts must be
>pseudonomised.
>>>> Counts are retained for sample, quality control, and auditing
>purposes
>>>> during which time contractual measures mus!
>>>>  t be in
>>>> place to limit access to, and protect the data from other uses. A
>53 week
>>>> retention period is necessary so that month over month reports for
>a one
>>>> year period may be re-run for quality checking purposes, after
>which the
>>>> data must be de-identified. The counted data is largely collected
>on a first
>>>> party basis, but to ensure complete representation, some will be
>third party
>>>> placement. This collection tracks the content rather than involving
>the
>>>> collection of a user's browser history.
>>>> 
>>>> The purposes must be limited to:
>>>> 
>>>> facilitating online media valuation, planning and buying via
>accurate and
>>>> reliable audience measurement.
>>>> 
>>>> optimizing content and placement on an individual site.
>>>> 
>>>> Audience measurement data must be reported as aggregated
>information such
>>>> that no recipient is able to build commercial profiles about
>particular
>>>> individuals or devices.
>>>> 
>>>> To clarify a comment from Justin about auditing, note that 
>audience
>>>> measurement sys!
>>>>  tems
>>>> (whether TV, radio, print or online) are usually managed or
>monitored by an
>>>> independent body as
>>>> guarantee of accuracy with various stakeholders in a joint industry
>body
>>>> defining what is needed to provide a robust and impartial system.
>>>> 
>>>> MRC handles this in the US whilst the JICWEBs reporting standards
>of ABC
>>>> handles this in the UK and AGMA  is the German audit body. Here is
>>>> a longer list  
>>>>
>http://www.i-jic.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=55143f172846ed39c7958cbeb837a85a
>>>> and here is ABC
>>>>
>http://www.abc.org.uk/PageFiles/50/Web%20Traffic%20Audit%20Rules%20and%20Gui
>>>> dance%20Notes%20version2%20March%202013%20master.pdf
>>>> 
>>>> Regards
>>>> 
>>>> Kathy Joe
>>>> ESOMAR
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> ! 
Received on Friday, 8 March 2013 16:29:44 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Friday, 3 November 2017 21:45:07 UTC