Re: Today's call: summary on user agent compliance

I'm sort of surprised we're having this discussion this far into the proceedings. 

Jonathan, if your main point is that their are businesses in existence today that may be in favor of msft's decision, then I'm happy to concede that point.

Conversely, I believe there are business units within msft that may feel differently than the browser division when it comes to defaults. I believe msft advertising had indicated support for opt-out recently. 

My apologies if anyone here feels I haven't driven home my thoughts on this previously. Oftentimes, Shane, Roy, Ian (and others) are communicating these points very eloquently. And since we've agreed not to pile on here, I've often let Shane et al make these points here...

So for the record, I am in the yahoo / adobe camp here. 



Cheers,


Alan Chapell
917 318 8440

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Bier <jbier@dotomi.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:30:31 
To: Shane Wiley<wileys@yahoo-inc.com>
Cc: Jonathan Mayer<jmayer@stanford.edu>; Rigo Wenning<rigo@w3.org>; public-tracking@w3.org<public-tracking@w3.org>; Roy T. Fielding<fielding@gbiv.com>; Tamir Israel<tisrael@cippic.ca>
Subject: Re: Today's call: summary on user agent compliance

Shane,

ValueClick, as an Observer of this W3C TPWG, is in the same camp as Google, Yahoo, and Adobe.

Best regards,
Jason Bier

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 13, 2012, at 10:23 PM, "Shane Wiley" <wileys@yahoo-inc.com<mailto:wileys@yahoo-inc.com>> wrote:

Fair – ad networks please chime in.  Those ad networks that generate net positive revenue from advertising activities (they have a reason to care - MSFT is excluded) and have some degree of scale and legitimacy (AdTruth is excluded) please add your voice to this debate.

- Shane

From: Jonathan Mayer [mailto:jmayer@stanford.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:17 PM
To: Shane Wiley
Cc: Rigo Wenning; public-tracking@w3.org<mailto:public-tracking@w3.org>; Roy T. Fielding; Tamir Israel
Subject: Re: Today's call: summary on user agent compliance

Shane,

The online advertising industry participants in the working group have not spoken with one voice on the issue of browser defaults.  AdTruth and Microsoft appear willing to honor Do Not Track by default.  Representatives from Adobe, Google, and Yahoo have indicated that they'd prefer not to.  It certainly would be helpful to hear the perspectives of other working group members who operate advertising businesses.

Best,
Jonathan

On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Shane Wiley wrote:

Jonathan,



Are you referring to the one ad targeting company that relies on digital fingerprinting and desperately needs DNT to provide some level of user control over their current business practices?  There may be a few outliers but please understand they represent less than 1% of traffic on the Internet.  If that’s your goal, so be it.



- Shane



From: Jonathan Mayer [mailto:jmayer@stanford.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 10:11 PM
To: Shane Wiley
Cc: Rigo Wenning; public-tracking@w3.org<mailto:public-tracking@w3.org>; Roy T. Fielding; Tamir Israel
Subject: Re: Today's call: summary on user agent compliance



Shane,



I'm not quite sure what you mean by "a standard no one in industry will implement."  Earlier today a working group member from an ad targeting company suggested they would implement the W3C Do Not Track standard if it included honoring Internet Explorer's default implementation.



Jonathan

On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Shane Wiley wrote:

We already are by discussing elements of a standard no one in industry will implement. You're taking us down that road again...



- Shane



-----Original Message-----

From: Rigo Wenning [mailto:rigo@w3.org]

Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 7:59 PM

To: public-tracking@w3.org<mailto:public-tracking@w3.org>

Cc: Roy T. Fielding; Tamir Israel

Subject: Re: Today's call: summary on user agent compliance



On Tuesday 12 June 2012 16:30:21 Roy T. Fielding wrote:

DNT is not the only consent mechanism. Right now it doesn't

even qualify as one. Inside the tracking status resource you

will see a link to a control resource. That resource is a

consent mechanism. It doesn't depend on DNT. It doesn't

disappear even if the DNT field is ignored. And that's just

one of many possible consent mechanisms other than DNT that

a site might use in order to comply with regional laws.



You could implement P3P that had already that opt-out URI 10 years

ago... Roy, are you suggesting we repeat history?



Rigo