Draft minutes: 2014 December 16 call

The draft minutes from the December 16 voice conference are available here
<http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html> and copied below
(in HTML since I wasn't sure how to get nicely formatted plaintext like Art
- let me know if HTML is a problem for some reason):

If you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send them to the
public-touchevents mail list before December 24. In the absence of any
changes, these minutes will be considered approved.

I've also done some cleanup / consolidation on the CG wiki page
<https://www.w3.org/community/touchevents/wiki/Main_Page>.  Everyone should
feel free to edit it as they see fit.

Thanks,
   Rick
- DRAFT -Touch Events CG Call16 Dec 2014

Agenda
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-touchevents/2014Dec/0020.html>

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-irc>
Attendees
PresentRick, Jacob, Tim, Mustaq, Scott, Olli, Art, Doug, Asir, Patrick
RegretsChairRickScribeJacob
Contents

   - Topics <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. Using GitHub
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#item01>
      2. Using GitHub for the spec
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#item02>
      3. what should we do for bug tracker?
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#item03>
      4. Any issues / discussion for the errata edits made to date?
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#item04>
   - Summary of Action Items
   <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------

rbyers, my you're early ;)

<rbyers> artb: hah, just trying to be prepared

:-)

<rbyers> artb: You'll be on the call today, right?

<rbyers> If so, would you mind being scribe? I'm terrible at multi-tasking.

<rbyers> I'll have a couple other Chrome folks from my team join us today,
but they're new to W3C meetings so don't want to ask them to scribe our
very first call ;-)

rbyers, I'm double booked ATM but will try to reschedule

FYI, I don't think the mins need to be too detailed

<rbyers> ArtB: Ok, no worries if you can't make it - I'm sure I can talk
someone else who's done it before into scribing

perhaps Doug can help

it can also be "shared" responsibility

<rbyers> yep, thanks

<patrick_h_lauke> ...next time i should actually read the agenda ;)

yeah, that got me too :)

<patrick_h_lauke> old habits die hard

<patrick_h_lauke> i'm in the call...is it not showing here as IP caller etc?

<jrossi> having mic probs...just a sec

<smaug> I guess I could

wfm2

<smaug> hello

<rbyers> Tim and Mustaq

<patrick_h_lauke> agenda looks good to me

<smaug> is it just me, or is the audio quality really bad?
Using GitHub

<jrossi> yes it's bad for me

<jrossi> [hold music]

<patrick_h_lauke> :)
Using GitHub for the spec

<patrick_h_lauke> no objection from me to using github

<jrossi> rbyers: any objections to using GH?

<jrossi> jrossi: +1 from me

<jrossi> rbyers: should we use smoon's repo or wait for w3c?

<scribe> *ACTION:* barstow make sure w3c staff creates
github/w3c/touch-events repo [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#action01]

<rbyers> Discussion on how to transfer GitHub from Sangwhan to W3C org

<rbyers> Scott: Search for "transfer repo to github organization"

<scottgonzalez>
https://help.github.com/articles/transferring-a-repository/#transferring-from-a-user-to-an-organization

<jrossi> jrossi: looks like I can't create repos

<jrossi>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-touchevents/2014Dec/0023.html

http://www.w3.org/TR/touch-events/

<jrossi> shepazu: I can create this repo

<jrossi> shepazu: done

<shepazu> https://github.com/w3c/touch-events

<rbyers> We have a github repo: https://github.com/w3c/touch-events

<shepazu> Mike5, I done did it!

<rbyers> Thanks Doug

<rbyers> This is the current errata link:
https://github.com/w3c/touch-events

<rbyers> damn

<rbyers> This is the current errata link:
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/v1-errata/touchevents.html

<rbyers> Do we care about these becoming stale?

<jrossi> rbyers: do we care about that getting stale?

<jrossi> jrossi: do we know what's been done in the past?

<jrossi> smaug: I think the editor's draft needs to be changed

<patrick_h_lauke> yeah think repointing "Latest editor's draft:" to github

<jrossi> jrossi: I don't think people have the v1-errata, but maybe add a
banner to point people to github

<jrossi> jrossi: do we add a link to REC?

<patrick_h_lauke> do we also need something to point from github from
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/ ?

I'll defer to Doug

but we can get PLH on the call?

<jrossi> rbyers: I think we add it once there's some more stable errata
with some consensus

<jrossi> shepazu: should we publish on specs.webplatform.org?

<jrossi> jrossi: I think those are github repos, so could be done as
additional step?

<rbyers> Current errata link from REC spec:
http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-touch-events-20131010/REC-touch-events-20131010-errata.html

<jrossi> [back on question about link from REC to errata]

<jrossi> rbyers: I think it's ok to punt on this, add it once we have more
changes and care

<jrossi> jrossi: I agree

<jrossi> shepazu: I agree. once published we try not to mess with it, but
the errata is meant to be updated. i'll proceed from a policy perspective
internally to confirm right mechanism to do that.

<jrossi> *ACTION:* shepazu to investigate policy on updating REC with link
to errata and bug tracker [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#action02]

<jrossi> shepazu: do we want specs.webplatform.org?

<jrossi> jrossi: sure

<jrossi> rbyers: sure

<patrick_h_lauke> +1

-> http://www.w3.org/TR/touch-events-extensions/ TE Extensions Note

<patrick_h_lauke> radius stuff is a substantial change, so not an errata

<jrossi> rbyers: I think we should focus on errata stuff and not feature
stuff for now

<jrossi> jrossi: agree

<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: right, can't change the REC to change the
conforming status of existing implementations

<jrossi> rbyers: [gives example of changing spec normatively but to match
implementations]
what should we do for bug tracker?

<jrossi> rbyers: I think smaug suggested W3C bugzilla

<jrossi> rbyers: are there reasons for this other than GitHub issues?

<jrossi> smaug: where do we get notifications of new stuff?

<jrossi> rbyers: you can star it

<jrossi> rbyers: may not be mailing list integration

<jrossi> smaug: we could create an account to have it get notified

<jrossi> jrossi: you'll lose rssbot/tracker support if we use GH issues,
but I don't have a preference.

<patrick_h_lauke> jrossi: if we do use W3C bugzilla then disable issues on
github so we don't have fragmented bugs

<jrossi> shepazu: more people have github accounts, so I'd prefer that

<jrossi> shepazu: there's a script dom wrote that can send notifications to
the list

<jrossi> shepazu: not yet integration with irc, but there may be bots out
there

<jrossi> asir: you can create a github system account that tracks and sends
to a list

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps-github/ WebApps'
github list

<jrossi> scottgonzalez: if we're only talking about 1-way communication,
there's existing support. If you want to create an issue from IRC/etc, then
you need something special.

<jrossi> shepazu: I think such bots exist, but nobody has used at W3C

<jrossi> rbyers: sounds like their consensus, smaug what do you think?

<jrossi> smaug: I think I can live with that

<jrossi> Resolution: move the spec to GitHub and use GH issues for bugs

<jrossi> shepazu: can we get consensus for jrossi is awesome?

<jrossi> wg: yes! :-p

<jrossi> rbyers: do we need tracker?

<jrossi> jrossi: I like tracker for action tracking

<jrossi> rbyers: think we need some formal thing to get it set up

<jrossi> shepazu: I can look into that
Any issues / discussion for the errata edits made to date?

<rbyers> Update co-ordinate types from long to double:
https://github.com/cynthia/touch-events/commit/5afd36fafcb998227c2fff30f9fedfee2cf654cc

<rbyers>
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_ufW8xbb0hNzPlvuuxrpeQ6bkHxQ_MfDic7jxnwTr4A/edit

<jrossi> rbyers: haven't had a single bug with using fractional components
on TE coords

<rbyers> scratch that

<rbyers> Update touchmove behavior on preventDefault:
https://github.com/cynthia/touch-events/commit/41fdc4879563477bf3ff69463611fa8865f847ec,
https://github.com/cynthia/touch-events/commit/35ee14ed53705f66497743692c38853abd244f0b

<jrossi> rbyers: [blink] hasn't had a single bug, that is

<jrossi> jrossi: I think the change is good, though may need to note a
specific coordinate delta between touchstart and first touchmove as we've
seen for compat/interop on the web today

<jrossi> rbyers: really no good way in safari to gaurantee

<jrossi> jrossi: maybe there's just a minimum

<rbyers> Related bug filed against Safari:
https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138151

<jrossi> rbyers: I tried to determine that, but it seems it's not always a
gaurantee

<jrossi> rbyers: could consider adding a note to say "most implementations
will see a movement of ___"

<jrossi> rbyer: going to be fuzzy, because it's hard to be precise

<jrossi> rbyers: on Chrome for Android, the value comes from the OS

<rbyers> Clarify effect of cancelling touchend event:
https://github.com/cynthia/touch-events/commit/4fd174ab1694fc96dc3fc6a43bad40c70b4594fd

<jrossi> rbyers: we should consider this a separate issue, and if we can't
solve it then consider a new API for reliably doing this

<jrossi> [last rbyers scribe comment was about previous touchmove issue]

<jrossi> rbyers: the touchend edit clarifies pD() on touchend supresses
mouse events

<jrossi> rbyers: android browser didn't do this, but that's a bug and it's
been fixed

<jrossi> rbyers: patrick, how would you summarize your changes?

<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: these are clarifications that don't change
behavior

<jrossi> rbyers: took a lot of learnings from PE and tried to harmonize
them in TE

<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: like adding example sequences to the spec

<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: using terminology like "compatibility mouse
events"

<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: other stylistic things

<jrossi> rbyers: I suggest patrick puts up PRs for each of the suggested
changes

<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: yes, I can do that

<jrossi> *ACTION:* patrick_h_lauke to submit PRs for suggested changes once
repo is set up [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#action03]

<jrossi> rbyers: that's all I had on errata edits for now

<jrossi> rbyers: anything else?

<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: I think we're waiting on PFWG to provide their
document on device mapping

<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: would be good to get a better understanding of
what they want to talk about

<jrossi> rbyers: should we discuss "Identifying mouse events derived from
touch" now?

<jrossi> jrossi: I think we can have more list discussion first

<patrick_h_lauke> the idea of indicating a derived event should be an
extension type thing / new API

<jrossi> rbyers: and some of the proposals might go into DOM/UI Events

<patrick_h_lauke> but in principle i agree having ... some kind of flag in
the event

<jrossi> *ACTION:* jrossi to share proposal on this topic [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#action04]

yes agree!

thanks Rick

<jrossi> rbyers: excited to have this call, even if we don't add features,
cleaning this up is valuable

<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: I agree, this will really help

<jrossi> jrossi: agree, we've had a tough time getting interop in IE here
and clarifications will go a long way for us and future implementors

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/community/touchevents/

<shepazu> https://github.com/w3c/touch-events

<shepazu>
http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-touch-events-20131010/REC-touch-events-20131010-errata.html

<patrick_h_lauke> shepazu: i would add a link to the community group and
the github repo to the above errata page

<jrossi> shepazu: will update REC errata page to point to CG, GitHub spec,
etc

<patrick_h_lauke> SGTM

<jrossi> jrossi: SGTM

<shepazu> mbrubeck, we assigned you all the actions

<mbrubeck> \o/

<rbyers> mbrubeck No worries, just ramping up on administratvia mostly
today, should get more interesting in the new year :-)

<smaug> mbrubeck: I've been setting up calendar and email for few hours now

<smaug> but seems to work now, sort of

<shepazu>
http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-touch-events-20131010/REC-touch-events-20131010-errata.html

<scribe> scribenick: ArtB

<scribe> Scribe: Jacob
Summary of Action Items*[NEW]* *ACTION:* barstow make sure w3c staff
creates github/w3c/touch-events repo [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#action01]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jrossi to share proposal on this topic [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#action04]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* patrick_h_lauke to submit PRs for suggested changes once
repo is set up [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#action03]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* shepazu to investigate policy on updating REC with link
to errata and bug tracker [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#action02]

[End of minutes]