- From: James Graham <jgraham@opera.com>
- Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 21:46:05 +0100 (CET)
- To: Robin Berjon <robin@w3.org>
- cc: Tobie Langel <tobie@w3.org>, public-test-infra <public-test-infra@w3.org>
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013, Robin Berjon wrote: >> I proposed that we drop this requirement and explicitly state so in >> the new review process, i.e. something along the lines of: >> >> "Contributions must be reviewed by a peer. The reviewer can be a >> colleague of the contributor as long as the proceedings are public." > > I'm getting a sense of violent agreement on this. Then I should probably challenge it :p I think that if we believe organisation-internal review to be sufficient we should be able to back this up e.g. with evidence that existing submissions where it is claimed that some internal review happened did not suffer defects at the same rate as submissions where no such claim is made. My feeling (not data) is that this isn't always the case; at least I recall significant submissions, which I presume underwent internal review, that nevertheless contained some major defects, often arising from a misunderstanding of the specification that went unchecked in a closed environment. I would particularly worry about cases where the tests were reviewed as part of a patch to implement the feature; in such a case it would be extremely easy for the reviewer to concentrate on the implementation and blindly approve the tests on the basis that they pass when run with the accompanying code. Of course this isn't to say that encouraging releasing records of internal review along with the test shouldn't be encouraged. However they should be an aid to other users of the testsuite looking to do review, not a replacement. Which brings me to my main point; the tests going unreviewed is a symptom of a much more serious underlying problem, namely that implemntors are not actually running the tests from the W3C repository. If people were actually running the tests they would be inclined to provide review when implementing a feature with submitted tests, both to get the submission accepted and to discover the limitations of the existing testsuite. They would also be highly likely to pick up errors in the testsuite, which often manifest themselves as differences between implementations (that is, a wrong test will correctly fail in a second implementation). This would solve all the problems with review slowness without damaging review quality, without eroding all the benefits of having multiple, diverse, contributers understand the structure and coverage of a particular testsuite, and without leading to a scenario where a single organisation can unilaterally declare the testsuite for a feature to be "complete" (at least for Process purposes). I should note that in webapps at least this latter situation is more or less arising today, so it isn't theoretical. It is my opinion that we should be putting considerably more effort into working with all implementors to ensure that they are actually running the tests that we are collecting. Once we do that we won't have to put so much effort into fiddling with the details of procedures in order to get testing momentum going, because it will be naturally beneficial for all the parties involved to provide the momentum out of their own best interests.
Received on Wednesday, 20 March 2013 20:46:35 UTC