Re: [TalentSignal] Suggested first actions

Fritz, thanks for the fuller explanation...I get what you mean. What you
are calling a "job position" is a distinct artifact from the "job posting".
Bob Sheets (GWU Institute for Public Policy and on the JDX team) created an
interesting set of definitions describing an array of related entities
relating to a job that helped me get as good a grip as I have on the
relevant artifacts that flesh out the context around the "JobPosting". I
think what you are talking about is Bob's "Job Description". The following
is a *bit long* but hopefully useful...here are Bob's definitions:

Employer Establishment is a specific physical location where people work
(e.g., office, campus, factory or warehouse location) or are connected to
(e.g., reporting office) in performing work for the employer.  Example:
Employer has two factory locations--employer establishments—where they
employ Machining Technicians--one in Chicago and one in Cleveland.

Job a formally defined and titled role for performing a set of work tasks
or activities at one or more employer establishments.  Example: Machining
Technician.

Occupation is a family of related jobs across employers based on shared
characteristics defined by one or more taxonomies such as O*NET, SOC
(standard occupational classification), and private sector taxonomies that
may or may not be open.  Example: Machining Technician jobs classified in
SOC under the occupation-- Machinists.

Job Position is a specific instance of a job held by a person through a
type of employment relationship (regular full-time to part-time
contractual). One job will have one or more positions that share major
features of the job but may vary depending on the establishment context and
person holding the job.  Jobs and job positions will be located at or
connected to (e.g., home office) one or more employment locations called
employer establishments. Job postings refer to job position openings.

Job Analysis is a systematic study of a job [not an artifact] to identify
the important work responsibilities and tasks and what knowledge, skills,
abilities, and other qualifications are needed to successfully perform
them. This is done to develop official documentation of jobs and hiring
requirements and is used for selecting the most qualified job candidates,
identifying training needs, career planning and job classification and
compensation decisions. (See below for background information on job
analysis).

Job Description is a written statement of a job generally including the
formal job title along with duties, purpose, responsibilities, scope,
reporting relationships and working conditions of a job along with the
knowledge, skills, abilities, education, qualifications, experience and
other requirements for performing the job.  The job description is usually
based on a job analysis producing a job competency profile and other job
description resources.

Job Competency Profile  is a listing of the major work tasks and knowledge,
skills, and ability requirements for carrying out these work tasks based on
a job analysis that engages subject matter experts in defining and
validating the importance, frequency, or other types of weightings of the
competencies for a specific job (similar to the HR Open
PositionCompetencyModel). This profile describes the underlying competency
model or framework used in a job description and does not cover the
administrative, organizational, compensation, and other details associated
with the job and related job positions. This also is related to what others
call a “job specification” which defines the knowledge, skills and
abilities that are required to perform a job in an organization. Job
specification also covers aspects like education and  work-experience and
is used in the recruitment and selection and performance evaluation and
promotion. Employers may or may not have a validated job competency profile
based on a job analysis for a job description.

Job Position Opening is an unfilled job position that has been formally
approved for filling usually triggered by an authorization to a
supervisor/hiring manager to increase the number of positions or fill a
position opened by people leaving.   Government job opening projections
count total job openings as both new and replacement job openings.

Job Position Posting is an online advertisement for filling one or more job
position openings that contains information on the employer and the job
position based on a job description as well as how and to apply for the job
opening and how long the posting is valid for filling the job opening.


Example:  Employer has a Machining Technician job that has 10 total
positions.  The Machining Technician job positions shared a common job
description based on an underlying job competency profile that was
developed through a job analysis with subject matter experts. Five of these
job positions are at the Chicago office (business establishment) and the
other five are at Cleveland office (business establishment).  There are two
unfilled positions that have been authorized for filling (job position
openings) at the Cleveland office and have an active job posting for
filling within the next six months distributed through multiple recruiting
channels including three job boards. The SOC classifies this job under the
occupational classification of Machinist.




On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 11:52 AM Fritz Ray <fritley@gmail.com> wrote:

> There are a collection of requirements, responsibilities, skills, titles,
> etc that are associated with a job position that are fields in a JobPosting
> object that would be of use in describing roles in a project and roles in
> an organization independent of hiring. A person doesn't hold a JobPosting
> (maybe in the military they do) in an organization or project, so it
> doesn't semantically fit at the moment.
>
> Creating JobPosition, which takes the fields for describing requirements,
> responsibilities, skills, titles, etc, from JobPosting and then having
> JobPosting extend JobPosition would allow something that isn't possible at
> the moment without misusing JobPosting:
>
> Job Positions to be described in organizations or projects independent of
> a specific job opening that is described on a recruitment board.
>
> ex: The Job Position of Ambulance Driver requires X credential and Y
> skills and confers Z title.
> ex2: The Job Posting for Ambulance Driver is a copy of (or links to) the
> Job Position object, and also includes salary expectations, the hiring
> organization, etc.
>
> Perhaps the better route is to extend EmployeeRole with this
> information... which seems to be an orphan object. But as it stands, a
> Person is hired, and that has a JobPosting, and then they exist in an
> Organization, but there isn't any effective way to describe what they do or
> could do within an organization without using JobPosting.
>
> <Organization> role <JobPosting>
> <JobPosition> name "Ambulance Driver"
> <JobPosition> skill <Ambulance Drive Competency>
> <JobPosting> extends or is about <JobPosition>
> <JobPosting> baseSalary 40,000
> <JobPosting> datePosted 2019-04-17
>
> Something like that. There's another gap where it is currently difficult
> to describe that a person is performing a role as an employee in an
> organization, but lets start here.
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 8:50 AM Stuart Sutton <stuartasutton@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Fritz, can you be a bit more specific about bullet 2? I don't understand
>> the scenario or your suggested solution.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 8:45 AM Fritz Ray <fritley@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Scoping questions -- let me know if you've already discussed them, as I
>>> just joined the group and haven't been very involved in the JDX:
>>>
>>>    - Uber, Taskrabbit, classified ads, and other areas of work have
>>>    popped up that are "single-task jobs" -- Gigs. Gigs appear to be getting
>>>    more popular over time and have some differences: They also tend to be more
>>>    like a service with a fixed payment. Should we attempt to scope those into
>>>    this work, either as an object or just as a usage profile?
>>>    - Similarly, Positions in a company, nonprofit, club, project, or
>>>    other work-oriented roles also exist that represent working in an
>>>    organization distinct from compensation.. Pushing down some of the fields
>>>    of JobPosting (responsibilities, skills, title, relevant occupation, etc)
>>>    into a JobPosition base class will yield benefits through reuse here, and
>>>    could help define roles or positions (filled or unfilled) in Organizations
>>>    that then serve as a base for generating JobPosting objects.
>>>
>>> Those are the itches I've had when I've used JobPosting and other
>>> objects to represent in schema.org how work is done.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 7:45 AM Merrilea Mayo <merrileamayo@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just got off a videoconference with some folks at ESCO, the European
>>>> skills & occupation taxonomy effort.  I think bullet number 1 is going to
>>>> be important to address, and the other bullet seems like an obvious nee as
>>>> well.  I'm in agreement.
>>>> On 4/17/2019 10:16 AM, Stuart Sutton wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Phil, I think the two immediate actions to try and hit the next release
>>>> are a good place to start.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:36 AM Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have set up a wiki for the Talent Signal community group
>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/community/talent-signal/wiki/Main_Page>. You
>>>>> should all have edit access when logged in to your W3C account.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have copied to the wiki most of the content from the Google doc on possible
>>>>> requirements for job descriptions
>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SfB2d-CkxrbfOJJPcBjb_etGJJ0_Rk9ELpqsQx5QwKA/edit#heading=h.52xm8fh2jw5g>
>>>>> that I circulated last month. That content is now here:
>>>>> https://www.w3.org/community/talent-signal/wiki/Issues,_use_cases_and_requirements
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest that we pick a few of the issues on that page and try to
>>>>> address them in time for the next release of schema.org (due May 1).
>>>>> We should chose some which seem relatively significant but easy. I think
>>>>> these are good candidates:
>>>>>
>>>>>    - occupationalCategory definition requires O*Net-SOC taxonomy,
>>>>>    which is too prescriptive & US-centric. See also issue 2192 and PR 2207
>>>>>    which adds CategoryCode to range of occupationalCategory.
>>>>>    - Should be able to provide start date for job (see issue 1829
>>>>>    point 10)
>>>>>
>>>>>     (see wiki for relevant links)
>>>>>
>>>>> *Please indicate *(by reply to this email) whether you think these
>>>>> are a reasonable choice and whether you would add any others. After Easter
>>>>> we can look at suggested changes to propose to schema.org.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also please suggest any changes to the wiki by way of new use cases,
>>>>> refinements to the existing text, clarifications etc. either by email if
>>>>> there needs to be discussion or by fixing what is on the wiki if there is a
>>>>> clear error.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards, Phil
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>>>>> CETIS LLP <https://www.cetis.org.uk>: a cooperative consultancy for
>>>>> innovation in education technology.
>>>>> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance
>>>>> learning; information systems for education.
>>>>>
>>>>> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in
>>>>> England number OC399090
>>>>> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company,
>>>>> number SC569282.
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Merrilea J. Mayo, Ph.D.
>>>> Mayo Enterprises, LLC
>>>> 12101 Sheets Farm Rd.
>>>> North Potomac, MD 20878
>>>>
>>>> merrileamayo@gmail..com <merrileamayo@gmail.com>
>>>> https://merrileamayo.com/
>>>> 240-304-0439 (cell)
>>>> 301-977-2599 (landline)
>>>>
>>>