W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-swd-wg@w3.org > September 2007

[RDFa] Meeting record: 2007-09-06 RDFa Task Force telecon

From: Hausenblas, Michael <michael.hausenblas@joanneum.at>
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 20:32:19 +0200
Message-ID: <768DACDC356ED04EA1F1130F97D29852012A4F53@RZJC2EX.jr1.local>
To: "RDFa" <public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org>
Cc: "SWD Working Group" <public-swd-wg@w3.org>


All,

The minutes of yesterday's RDFa Task Force telecon
are ready for review at:

 http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html


Topics 
 1. Action Items 
 2. New Test Cases 
 3. Documents - Thoughts, Reviews 
 4. Schedule over the next 2 weeks 

Summary of Action Items:

[NEW] ACTION: Ben to write up @instanceof referring to other subjects
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for
tests 42-45 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking that
the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben add an isbn: resource example to the Primer to
illustrate @resource overriding @href [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben send mail to the TF list when the Primer editors'
draft is ready for the TF to read [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr
[and Fabien] and post their implementations to
http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to work test cases 31 and 32 into primer [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/16-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add
xml:lang support [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right --
unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 omitting @about
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 with @rev in
place of @rel [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to write versions of tests 34-36
including all of @src, @href, and @resource [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
[DONE] ACTION: Ralph ask Eric Prud'hommeaux if there's a clever way to
write a variant of tests 34-36 without @rel [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[DONE] ACTION: Shane send email to the TF list when the editor's draft
is ready for the TF to read [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

A full text copy follows below.

Cheers,
	Michael
__________________________________________________________

W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF - Telecon

6 Sep 2007

Agenda [1]

See also: IRC log [2], previous 2007-08-30 [3]

[1]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0037.
html
[2] http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-irc
[3] http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html

Attendees
 Present 
  Ben Adida, Ralph Swick, Manu Sporny (Digital Bazaar, Guest), Steven
Pemberton,
  Shane McCarron, Mark Birbeck, Michael Hausenblas 
 Regrets 
 Chair 
  Ben 
 Scribe 
  Michael, Ralph 

Contents
 Topics 
  1. Action Items 
  2. New Test Cases 
  3. Documents - Thoughts, Reviews 
  4. Schedule over the next 2 weeks 
 Summary of Action Items 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

<mhausenblas> previous 2007-08-30

<mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas

Action Items
-> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben add an isbn: resource example to the Primer
to illustrate @resource overriding @href [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 omitting
@about [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] [DONE]

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 with
@rev in place of @rel [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] [DONE]

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben ask Michael to write versions of tests 34-36
including all of @src, @href, and @resource [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [DONE]

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben send mail to the TF list when the Primer
editors' draft is ready for the TF to read [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ralph ask Eric Prud'hommeaux if there's a clever
way to write a variant of tests 34-36 without @rel [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [DONE]

<RalphS> Ralph: Eric's solution would require us to be able to identify
some tests as returning '0' for a Pass result

<RalphS> ... all the current tests expect '1' to be the Pass result

<RalphS> Michael: with 'ASK' we're checking that the triple exists

<RalphS> ... the expected answer is 'Yes'

-> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#ask

<RalphS> Michael: in the test suite document we could define whether
'Yes' means Pass or Fail

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/Overview.html RDF
Testsuite

<RalphS> Michael: my proposal is to leave the current test cases as they
are and define how we interpret the 'Yes' response

<RalphS> Mark: for some tests we say 'Yes' means Fail

<RalphS> Michael: yes, I have to confirm that this is feasible

<RalphS> ... to date we have assume that 'Yes' means Pass

<scribe> ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking that
the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Shane send email to the TF list when the editor's
draft is ready for the TF to read [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action13] [DONE]

-- really done

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to look into Science Commons use case
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB,
triplr [and Fabien] and post their implementations to
http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to work test cases 31 and 32 into primer
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/16-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to
add xml:lang support [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Michael to create "Microformats done right --
unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]

New Test Cases
->
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0040.
html

<RalphS> scribenick: ralphs

<mhausenblas> 

Michael: I updated the foaf:img property names

Test case 37

->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0037
test 37

RESOLUTION: test 37 approved

Michael: tests 38-41 all stem from the same action item; they're the
same as 34-37 using @rev instead of @rel
... uses foaf:depicts as that's the inverse of foaf:depiction
... I tested this with Ivan Herman's implementation and it produced the
proposed result

RESOLUTION: test 38 approved

Ben: typo in test 39; still uses @rel
... let's hold approval for this until it's fixed
... same typo problem in test 40

test case 41

->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0041
test 41

RESOLUTION: test 41 approved

Michael: tests 42-45 are same ase 34-37 without @about

->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0042
test 42

Ralph: syntactically correct, but are these semantically correct?

Michael: foaf:img is a relationship between a person and an image
... these may be semantically questionable

Mark: could have a screen shot that is an image of the page
... is foaf:img really restricted to Domain foaf:Person?

<mhausenblas> 

Michael: yes, foaf:img has rdfs:Domain foaf:Person

<Steven> It contradicts itself

<Steven> the description says "An image that can be used to represent
some thing"

<Steven> (not some person)

Ralph: we ought to be able to find some semantically reasonable
relationship between the page and the image

Ben: let's approve these tests based on syntax and assign Michael an
action to look for a better property

<scribe> ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate
for tests 42-45 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

RESOLUTION: test 42 on hold, modulo predicate

->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0043
test 43

Michael: showing @href overriding @src

RESOLUTION: test 43 on hold, modulo predicate

Mark: how will we confirm the corrected versions of these tests?

Michael: I have an action, and we'll check when I finish that action

Mark: we should put these on hold, then, rather than accept them now

RESOVLED: tests 42-45 put on hold pending identification of a
semantically correct predicate

<mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas

Documents - Thoughts, Reviews
Ben: Where to start?

Steven: Everywhere

Mark: Ivan gave great feedback

Ralph: Which section will be subject to greates change?

Mark: The 'Processing Model' (rules) section is new
... we are now matching all the other sections with this new rules
section
... the blue boxes detailed out
... eg @xml:lang in rules it just says it is used
... then in the detailed sections it exaplains how to use it, examples

Ben: Regarding review
... can we start right now, where to start?

Mark: Final changes on next Monday
... all sections may be reviewed, but they'll get ready bit by bit

<Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to ask about/suggest a 'latest version'
mechanism

Ben: We agreed are while ago that it will be titled "XHTML 1 + RDFa"

Mark: There used to be more generic things in there, but it is getting
more specific
... sitll not sure how to name it

<RalphS> [I see div.issue rendered as light green]

Mark: I focused on the rules, till now
... though we need to discuss it, here
... the idea is that the 'blue boxes' are host language specific

Ralph: Like the approach, but change the subtitle

Ben: RDFa in XHTML 1.1 Syntax as title

<RalphS> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-rdfa-primer/

<ShaneM> we need a short name for the syntax document. It should be
xhtml-syntax-rdfa

<ShaneM> note that currently we are using the shorthame rdfa-syntax

<ShaneM> but I am sure that is unofficial

<RalphS> [I suggest xhtml-rdfa-syntax ]

Ralph: To get a short name, the WG needs to trigger it by making a First
Public Working Draft publication request

<RalphS> primer

Ben: I restructured the Primer

<RalphS> currently $Id: 06-rdfa-irc.txt,v 1.43 2007/09/06 16:26:15 swick
Exp $

Ben: the mini-syntax section has been removed
... I am about to change the subtitle
... Manu, I'll take your comments and work them in

<RalphS> regrets for 13 Sep telecon :(

Ben: Mark promised the Syntax is ready for Tuesday morning
... Let's tentatively say next Friday at 15:00 UTC
... 14 Sep 2007

Schedule over the next 2 weeks
Ben: Get documents out for review
... everyone in the TF comments on it
... will inform SWD, then and propose to review

Mark: Regarding CURIE []

Michael: Don't know, but if you find it please add it to
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa/Resolutions

Mark: It has gone from @href
... but an extended form is worth having it in there

Ben: [] is just used for disambiguation

<RalphS> issue 4 (Local) blank node identifiers

<RalphS> [note that issue 4 is marked as resolved]

<benadida> <div about="#ben" property="foaf:name" content="Ben Adida"
rel="foaf:homepage" href="http://ben.adida.net"
instanceof="foaf:Person">oy</div>

<benadida> does this yield:

<benadida> <#ben> a foaf:Person

<benadida> or

<benadida> <http://ben.adida.net> a foaf:Person

<RalphS> [I've brought this "what is subject of @instanceof?" up
previously and was overruled]

<RalphS> note that as this is a question we've revisited several time,
whatever our conclusion is we should document it in a section of the
Primer

Ralph: Need an action to resolve it
... Ben to outline it in the Primer

Ben: Too advanced for the Primer

Ralph: In the Syntax, then?

Ben: I'll have a look at it

<scribe> ACTION: Ben to write up @instanceof referring to other subjects
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

Ben: Mission this week is WRITE or REVIEW

Michael: or both ;)

Ben: Thanks everyone - till Friday next week
... and look out for the documents on Tuesday morning!

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Ben to write up @instanceof referring to other subjects
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for
tests 42-45 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking that
the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben add an isbn: resource example to the Primer to
illustrate @resource overriding @href [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben send mail to the TF list when the Primer editors'
draft is ready for the TF to read [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr
[and Fabien] and post their implementations to
http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to work test cases 31 and 32 into primer [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/16-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add
xml:lang support [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right --
unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 omitting @about
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 with @rev in
place of @rel [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben ask Michael to write versions of tests 34-36
including all of @src, @href, and @resource [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
[DONE] ACTION: Ralph ask Eric Prud'hommeaux if there's a clever way to
write a variant of tests 34-36 without @rel [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[DONE] ACTION: Shane send email to the TF list when the editor's draft
is ready for the TF to read [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
 
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________


----------------------------------------------------------
 Michael Hausenblas, MSc.
 Institute of Information Systems & Information Management
 JOANNEUM RESEARCH Forschungsgesellschaft mbH
 Steyrergasse 17, A-8010 Graz, AUSTRIA

 <office>
    phone: +43-316-876-1193 (fax:-1191)   
   e-mail: michael.hausenblas@joanneum.at
      web: http://www.joanneum.at/iis/ 

 <private>
   mobile: +43-660-7621761
      web: http://www.sw-app.org/
----------------------------------------------------------
Received on Friday, 7 September 2007 18:32:29 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 17:31:45 UTC