- From: Guus Schreiber <schreiber@cs.vu.nl>
- Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:57:35 +0200
- To: Natasha Noy <noy@stanford.edu>
- CC: swbp <public-swbp-wg@w3.org>
Natasha Noy wrote: > Guus, > > Thanks a lot again for your review. At the OEP teleconference today, we > had a long discussion about the points you made in your review that > were not addressed by the new draft published last week [1] > > The feeling of the task force is that it is ok to leave the note as it > is. It really seem to be in the eye of the beholder what is a "real" > n-ary relation and what is not. And there was a general agreement that > RDF reification doesn't really address the issue brought out in the > examples in the note. Thus, the treatment that the note already gives > RDF reification (explaining that it addresses a different issue) seems > sufficient. > > Would you be comfortable moving forward with the note in the state it > is now? Natasha, In general OK. This weekend I will reply to the points you raised in your response to my comments. I expect that will lead to some smaller changes. Guus > > Thanks a lot, > > Natasha > > [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Sep/0019.html > > > On Aug 8, 2005, at 4:39 AM, Guus Schreiber wrote: > >> Natasha, Alan, >> >> Her is my review. Sorry for the delay. The reviews is a bit biased by >> my use of this note in a ontology-engineering course, which mainly >> focused on issues wrt real-world modeling (and not on RDF/ OWL details). >> >> Guus >> >> PS. My spelling checker wanted me to replace "reification" with >> "deification" :-). >> >> >> Defining N-ary Relations on the Semantic Web >> Editor's Draft 20 June 2005 >> http://smi-web.stanford.edu/people/noy/nAryRelations/n- >> aryRelations-2nd-WD.html >> >> [[ >> Issue 1: If property instances can link only two individuals, how do >> we deal with cases where we need to describe the instances of >> relations, such as its certainty, strength, etc? >> >> Issue 2: If instances of properties can link only two individuals, >> how do we represent relations among more than two individuals? >> ("n-ary relations") >> >> Issue 3: If properties can link only two individuals, how do we >> represent relations in which one of the participants is an ordered >> list of individuals rather than a single individual? >> ]] >> >> One could say this is not really a n-ary relation problem, but the >> "how to make statements about statements" problem, , i.e an >> alternative for RDF reification. I propose to make this explicit in >> the text, and move the issue to be the second issue. >> >> Vocabulary (issue 1 & 2): some readers might not grasp "property >> instances" >> directly. Suggest to either add in parentheses "cf. tuples" or drop >> "instances" (as done in the description of issue 3). >> >> [[ >> Use case examples >> ]] >> >> Again, examples 3 is the prototypical n-ary relation, so maybe this >> should be the first example. The point is that for people from >> relational databases the first two examples are not "real" n-ary >> relations: e.g. in example 1 the probability value is functionally >> dependent on the person and the disease. In example 3 there is no such >> dependency (the primary key is the combination of all three >> arguments). So, reification would work with examples 1 and 2, but not >> with example 3 (because the instances are not unique). >> >> [[ >> 4. United Airlines flight 3177 visits the following airports: LAX, >> DFW, and JFK. There is a relation between the individual flight and >> the three cities that it visits, LAX, DFW, JFK. Note that the order >> of the airports is important and indicates the order in which the >> flight visits these airports. >> ]] >> >> UML users may not recognize this as an n-ary relation. UML has the >> notion of "ordered" associations, which would handle this >> situation. It is in fact a binary relation where one of the arguments >> is not a simple individual but an ordered list of individuals. I >> suggest to add a UML note. >> >> Reflecting on this, we might just want to say: >> - issue 2 / example 3 describe the "real" n-ary relation issue >> - issue 1 and 3 / example 1+2 and 4 describe related but different >> problems that can be modeled using the same patterns. >> But maybe I'm making it too complicated now. >> >> [[ >> Sec. Representation patterns >> >> ... Examples 1, 2, and 3 above correspond to this pattern. For >> instance, >> in the example 1 the instance of a new class Diagnosis_Relation >> would represent the fact that Christine has been diagnosed with a >> breast tumor with high probability. >> ]] >> >> "correspond to" is too strong. Suggest to rephrase as: "Examples 1, 2, >> and 3 above can be modeled with this pattern.". >> >> Maybe it is a good place here to indicate that example 1 and 2 >> could alternatively have been represented with RDF reification. >> >> I suggest to include example 3 here, also because a name such >> as "Purchase" would seem to come less out of the blue than >> "Diagnosis_Relation". >> >> I suggest to include a UML note, indicating that pattern 1 is >> close to what is called an "association class" in UML. >> >> [[ >> Pattern 1 >> ]] >> >> In line with the previous comments, I suggest to change the order of >> the use cases. The current use case 3 should be the first one. >> >> [[ >> Use Case 1: additional attributes describing a relation >> ]] >> >> I've tried to explain the modeling solution in my >> ontology-engineering" class and observed the following: >> >> - it requires "breast tumor" to be treated as an instance, where it >> will usually be a class (one could see it as a use case for the >> "classes as values" note). >> >> I suggest to consider using an instance of BreastTumor as the >> value. This also has the advantages described in the value-partition >> note (easy to add later the statement that MyBreastTumor is an >> instance >> of a subclass of "BreastTumor"). >> >> - there are two other solutions which are worth discussing as >> alternatives: >> >> 1. Person -> hasDiagnosis -> Disease -> hasProbability -> Number >> This would work if the instance of disease is not BreastTumor" but >> a unique instance of BreastTumor. By the way, I do not think this >> solution would work in practice, as a statement about a diagnosis >> with a certain probability is always time dependent (which we cannot >> easily add). >> >> 2. Representing Diagnosis in a similar way as Purchase. >> My students found this solution easier to understand (for whatever >> it is worth). They found the juxtaposition of BreastTumor and >> Probability weird, as the second is clearly despondent on the >> first. The only real difference of course is the direction of the >> hasDiagnosis property. >> >> [[ >> Use Case 2: different aspects of the same relation >> ]] >> >> This use case is a better example than use case 1 of how to use the >> pattern for avoiding the use of RDF reification. >> >> A drastic solution could be to drop use case 1 altogether and keep this >> one in. Adding time information to this example would make it more >> realistic. >> >> "TemperatureObservation" would be a good name for this relation. I think >> this use case is close to the Observation pattern in Fowler's book on >> Analysis Patterns (I tried to verify this, but I cannot find my >> copy of the book). >> >> [[ >> Use Case 3: N-ary relation with no distinguished participant >> ]] >> >> I think it is worthwhile to point out that in use case 3 the >> domain actually provides a natural name for the relation as a whole, >> namely "Purchase". There are many of these nouns that represent static >> aspects of an activity and thus are candidates for this pattern: >> "transaction", "enrollment", "subscription". This makes it different >> from use cases 1 and 2 (but see also my remarks there). >> >> [[ >> Pattern 2: Using lists for arguments in a relation >> ]] >> >> Alternatives which avoid the use of RDF list would be worth >> mentioning: >> >> 1. A Flight is linked to a number of FlightPorts. Each FlightPort is a >> class, representing the relation between a port and its sequence number >> in the Flight. I find this rather ugly, but it is in a sense close to >> the way use case 1 is represented. >> >> 2. A Flight is linked to a number of FlightMovement instances. Each >> Flight movement represents a relation between from/to >> airports. This would probably be my preferred solution. >> >> -- >> Free University Amsterdam, Computer Science >> De Boelelaan 1081a, 1081 HV Amsterdam, The Netherlands >> Tel: +31 20 598 7739/7718; E-mail: schreiber@cs.vu.nl >> Home page: http://www.cs.vu.nl/~guus/ >> > -- Free University Amsterdam, Computer Science De Boelelaan 1081a, 1081 HV Amsterdam, The Netherlands Tel: +31 20 598 7739/7718; E-mail: schreiber@cs.vu.nl Home page: http://www.cs.vu.nl/~guus/
Received on Thursday, 15 September 2005 11:57:51 UTC