- From: Erik Dahlström <ed@opera.com>
- Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 16:13:25 +0200
- To: "www-svg@w3.org" <www-svg@w3.org>
Minutes:
http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html
as text below:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
22 May 2014
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0039.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
cabanier, krit, Tav, ed, stakagi, nikos, Rich
Regrets
Chair
ed
Scribe
ed, nikos, krit
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Cleaning up SVG2
2. [6]text-decoration-color
3. [7]textLength and <tspan>
4. [8]vertical-align, baseline-shift, alignment-baseline,
dominant-baseline
* [9]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 22 May 2014
<krit> need a minute
<ed> scribeNick: ed
Cleaning up SVG2
[10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0022.ht
ml
[10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0022.html
krit: we discussed on ML, want to remove sections...
... first part ...(missed)
... second part, we should make css always convert to svg (???)
<nikos> scribenick: nikos
Tav: 2 issues here
... you want all css stuff in one place. I don't think that's a
good idea
... text stuff should be in the text section
... I want to see what css modules apply in the text section,
not hidden elsewhere in the spec
... second issue is that if someone is looking at the spec,
it's good to see what the css modules are being used for
... e.g. filter chapter should have small section with
explanation of what filter is and one or two examples and then
refer to css spec
... this way someone looking at the chapter can get a quick
idea of what it's about
... you also asked that text sections be moved. e.g.
text-decoration
... text-decoration has problems interacting with svg
... would be great if that's solved in the spec but I still
think we should have examples
... what parts of css modules apply to what versions of svg?
... to answer that we have to have something in the svg spec
stating what parts of css are used
... I don't think you can just remove stuff that is defined by
svg
... I think text-indent could be removed, but there's details
to be discussed. does it apply to svg 1.1 style text or just
when you have a region for layout?
krit: I don't want to get into detail for each section
... in general I don't think we should preserve svg 1.1. style
... we should remove anything that is duplicated
... e.g. filters has no content
... all the sections with no content can be removed in my eyes
... of course there are links that need to be defined
... how certain things apply to svg needs to be defined
... but it doesn't make sense to have text for everything
... going back to filter effects example, I think examples can
be in the filter effects spec
... it's not a handbook, it's a specification for implementers
... even examples can be out-dated
... why not just say you can apply filter effects and link to
the spec
... we have nothing about blending in the svg spec yet blending
applies to svg
Tav: I think we should have short sections for each. I hate
having to click through multiple specifications
krit: that's always going to be the case, whether examples are
given or not
... we need an interactions module that explains how parts of
other specs are used
... we need normative text if there is svg specific behaviour
Tav: I think when you look at what can be cut it will be quite
limited
krit: well I definitely don't want to cut everything
Tav: when I look through the css specs, fonts 3 is a good
example, it has lots of examples and I find it easy to
understand
krit: every other css spec should be the same
... svg should concentrate on svg itself
... we agree we need a section that explains the interaction
with the css modules
Tav: yes
krit: can we agree sections with no content but just links to
other specs. e.g. text-align
Tav: I agree that when the spec is done we can clean that up.
but dont agree that we can remove right away
... we need to look at each section as a whole and work out
what is valuable to keep
<krit> scribenick: krit
krit: Can we agree that each section needs a review as well as
the CSS counter part and that we need to check the whole CSS
module if and how it applies to SVG before we remove anything?
Tav: Yes, absolutely
<scribe> ACTION: Tav to review CSS Text decoration and CSS3
Text and compare it with SVG [recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3626 - Review css text decoration and
css3 text and compare it with svg [on Tavmjong Bah - due
2014-05-29].
<scribe> ACTION: krit to review CSS Text decoration and CSS3
Text and compare it with SVG [recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3627 - Review css text decoration and
css3 text and compare it with svg [on Dirk Schulze - due
2014-05-29].
text-decoration-color
Tav: problem is that the property allows a single color to be
defined to a text decoration
... SVG on the other hand allows fill and stroke for the text
decoration
... how could we make these apply with text-decoration-color
... it would desireable to define a pattern or gradient on the
text decoration
ed: so the fill of text on the stroke of text decoration?
Tav: something like that
<ed> I meant: text-decoration-fill and text-decoration-stroke
krit: don't we have context-stroke and context fill on svg
fonts?
Tav: yes
... but a values
krit: right, could text-decor-color take these keywords?
... you can not define stroke and fill separately for
decoration
Tav: but does it apply to the stroke or fill of the text
decoration itself
... it would be interesting to know if fill and stroke will
apply to text in cSS as well
krit: 1) yes fill and stroke will apply to html text in the
future
Tav: in a way compatible to SVG
krit: we should make sure that this is the case for the CSS WG
Tav: concerned that this will not be the case
krit: filla nd stroke will apply to text in CSS as it applies
to SVG elements today
... would the SVG WG accept to change initial value for fill to
currentColor
... that could solve the problem with color and fill on text
for HTML and SVG
ed: what is the value of color if not defined?
krit: it is an inheriting property
... ancestor sets color
... it no ancestor does, it is black
<ed> scribeNick: ed
ed: are the benefits worth it? what problems would it solve?
nikos: I think dirk meant that you could then specify the fill
and stroke separately
... currentColor seems a bit weird
<nikos> nikos: I think Dirk was meaning that you could set
text-decoration-fill without setting text-decoration-stroke and
if stroke was enabled then it would get a sensible value from
somewhere
ed: another question is: how important is it to be able to
control fill and stroke separately for text-decoration
tav: you can already do it using another tspan
... simple thing to fix if we have CSSWG on board
ed: so this is option 3 in your writeup, correct?
tav: yes, combined with option 2, setting
'text-decoration-color' set text 'fill'
ed: ok, let's see what feedback the css editors give us on that
proposal
textLength and <tspan>
[13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0011.ht
ml
[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0011.html
ed: there's variety of behavior for textLength combined with
tspan, I'm thinking that the spec might be too vague
... tav what do you think?
... it gets a little tricky when you have textLength both on
parent <text> and on a child <tspan>
... not sure the spec covers that in enough detail
tav: you'd use the textlenght from the tspan, and then use that
to go back to the parent
nikos: yes, that's the way i read it too
ed: we have no tests for this in the testsuite yet
tav: suggest that thomas proposes some clarified spec text, and
a test
<scribe> ACTION: thomas to propose clarifications for
textLength and <tspan>, and to submit some tests to the svg2
testsuite for this [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3628 - Propose clarifications for
textlength and <tspan>, and to submit some tests to the svg2
testsuite for this [on Thomas Smailus - due 2014-05-29].
vertical-align, baseline-shift, alignment-baseline, dominant-baseline
tav: inkscape has baseline-shift for sub and super scripts
ed: what about alignment-baseline / dominant-baseline?
tav: don't think so
ed: CL sent a mail with the conclusion from csswg on letting
svg2 define these properties for now
tav: fine with me
trackbot, end telcon
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: krit to review CSS Text decoration and CSS3 Text
and compare it with SVG [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Tav to review CSS Text decoration and CSS3 Text
and compare it with SVG [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: thomas to propose clarifications for textLength
and <tspan>, and to submit some tests to the svg2 testsuite for
this [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [18]scribe.perl version
1.138 ([19]CVS log)
$Date: 2014-05-22 13:56:38 $
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[18] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[19] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
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Found ScribeNick: ed
Found ScribeNick: nikos
Found ScribeNick: krit
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Inferring Scribes: ed, nikos, krit
Scribes: ed, nikos, krit
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Default Present: cabanier, krit, Tav, ed, stakagi, nikos, Rich
Present: cabanier krit Tav ed stakagi nikos Rich
Agenda: [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0039.htm
l
Found Date: 22 May 2014
Guessing minutes URL: [22]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: krit tav thomas
[21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0039.html
[22] http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html
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[23] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
--
Erik Dahlstrom, Web Technology Developer, Opera Software
Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
Received on Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:14:17 UTC