- From: Cameron McCormack <cam@mcc.id.au>
- Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:03:06 +1100
- To: SVG public list <www-svg@w3.org>
Hello, please find below the minutes from last week's SVG WG telcon.
Although the minutes do not state it, Vincent also sent his regrets.
http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-svg-minutes.html
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
19 Jan 2012
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0031.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
ed, heycam, krit, Tav, ChrisL, +1.732.216.aabb
Regrets
Rik, Cyril
Chair
Cameron
Scribe
ChrisL
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]svg in border- and background-image
2. [6]svg2 requirements
3. [7]snapshot time
4. [8]the 'timelineBegin' attribute
5. [9]the 'requiredFonts' and 'requiredFormats' conditional
processing attributes
6. [10]the Progressive Rendering algorithm
7. [11]the <prefetch> element
* [12]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 19 January 2012
<scribe> scribenick: ChrisL
svg in border- and background-image
ed: raised in css images spec a long time ago
<ed>
[13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Dec/0427.html
[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Dec/0427.html
ed: asking what to do when border-image references an svg
image.slices into 9,not clear how it should work - split beforeor
after computing aspect ration
... elika says if we want it to work a particular way we should
define it, not css
heycam: does css spec give us some hooks?
ed: not sure
<ed> [14]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/
[14] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/
heycam: section 3 in there
ed: also section 5.1
<ed> [15]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#sizing
[15] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#sizing
heycam: assume the way its defined is that you put the box for the
outer svg element for the size before slicing up and nothing special
to be done for aspect ration
ed: so you then stretch the bitmap
heycam: why
ed: where you renderthe border in a different aspect ratio
ChrisL: prefer to see this as clipping regions rather than
re-scaling a raster result
heycam; like if you had an svg element in an htmldoc and set the
width and height properties
<krit> krit in th channel yes
krit: is that on the border width of the element that uses svg as
the border image?
heycam: maybe something can be done with intrinsiic aspect ratio?
krit: we have default values for width and height
heycam: the 300 150?
<krit> :)
heycam: whitespace on top and bottom makes it less useful. put PAR
none
... if you use a raster image, the middle parts get scaled?
ChrisL: you can scale them or replicate them
<krit> [16]http://www.css3.info/preview/border-image/
[16] http://www.css3.info/preview/border-image/
Tav: need an example
ChrisL: a lot of stretch, which is why its better to do as a clip
and render atthe exact size needed
<ed> [17]http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/
[17] http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/
heycam: sounds like we know what we want to put in the spec
ed: is there a test suite
ChrisL: a bit
ed: and none for this particular case? can take action to make some
<scribe> ACTION: erik to make css3 background and border tests
[recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3228 - Make css3 background and border
tests [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-01-26].
heycam: suggested text that eleika pointed to in her second mail
....
<heycam>
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Jan/0809.html
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Jan/0809.html
krit: from the second email we would not be able to use repeat,
looks the same as stretch
heycam; seems like its done after the
ChrisL: need to work out an integer number of repeats, scale
slightly so theywork out to an integer multiple
krit: yes
heycam: if you have an explicit w&h on svg,can use that to do the
repititions
... but if only an intrinsic aspect ratio
Tav: nothing to divide by
heycam: you dont have the intrinsic width
ChrisL: aim is to stretch the replicated part as little as possible
heycam: fit each of the 8 sections separately ... sounds sensible
ChrisL: we can define this and also give authoring guidelines to use
it well
heycam; so weshould propose some wording back
ed: wanted to hear what group thought of responses so far. want what
is best for authors
... so lets go for the separate sections
... getting a feel for what is most natural
heycam: good to work the same as for raster - consistency
ChrisL: while still gettingthe benefit of vector
heycam: yes
... someone should look into the repeating while preserving aspect
ratio before repeating
<scribe> ACTION: chris to look into the repeating while preserving
aspect ratio before repeating [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3229 - Look into the repeating while
preserving aspect ratio before repeating [on Chris Lilley - due
2012-01-26].
svg2 requirements
<heycam>
[21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#t
he_.27snapshotTime.27_attribute_on_the_.3Csvg.3E_element
[21]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#the_.27snapshotTime.27_attribute_on_the_.3Csvg.3E_element
heycam: we are on the tiny 1.2ones - i will edit as we go
snapshot time
heycam: i like that
... as a way to render animated documents for a static view
... easier to specify a particular time
ChrisL: it is good, but only for implementations that do animation
and need a paster image
krit: if you have multipleanimations?
ChrisL: yes, its on the whole document
krit: and events
... events that are generated?
ChrisL: yes, you run the whole animation intil the clock is the
snapshot time, then you render that state
heycam: in batik i did a set current time
... so you get all the syncbase stuff. not sure if hyperlinking
dispatches the start and end events
... better to do like that rather thsn have two ways to seek through
the document
ChrisL: suggest we accept the requirement and tighten up the spec on
how you seek
ed: spec does not say the snapshotTime image must be rendered for
anything in the svg spec itself, it's suggested it may be used for
still images, but doesn't require it to be used by the UA
heycam: printingis a case, for html when would it
ChrisL: (the use case was a set of animated icons, whose animation
was disabled, but re-enabled on user interaction like mouseover) :)
heycam: the snapshot time could be the base values before you run
the animation
ChrisL: need to stop it being displayed at the start of the
animation though
heycam: happy to bring this over - would still be metadata
ChrisL: would be good to add a fragment like the view ones, to say
render at the snapshot time
ed: strange that its optional on 1.2T - we could tighten it up
resolution: svg2 will add snapshot time for animated documents and
may specify how to get at the rendered image
the 'timelineBegin' attribute
[22]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/index.php?title=SVG2_Requ
irements_Input
[22]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/index.php?title=SVG2_Requirements_Input
[23]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#t
he_.27timelineBegin.27_attribute_on_the_.3Csvg.3E_element
[23]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#the_.27timelineBegin.27_attribute_on_the_.3Csvg.3E_element
heycam; wanted to get brian's input on the nextr few animation ones
<ed> here's an example of timelineBegin:
[24]http://dahlström.net/svg/smil/lennon-google-smil.svg
[24] http://dahlstr/
<heycam>
[25]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/struct.html#SVGElementTimelineBeg
in
[25]
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/struct.html#SVGElementTimelineBegin
heycam: ties into alignment with css animations, which do not wait
for document load
... want to mail brian and ask before we decide on these
ChrisL: makes sense
ed: useful functionality, waiting for document load is poor for
large files
<scribe> ACTION: cameron to mail brian about thesvgt 1.2 animation
items [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3230 - Mail brian about thesvgt 1.2
animation items [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-01-26].
<heycam>
[27]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#t
he_.27requiredFonts.27_and_.27requiredFormats.27_conditional_process
ing_attributes
[27]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#the_.27requiredFonts.27_and_.27requiredFormats.27_conditional_processing_attributes
the 'requiredFonts' and 'requiredFormats' conditional processing
attributes
ChrisL: formats was to allow for audio and video where there is
variable support
heycam: html5 does it differently without a switch
... is it useful for content outside of video
ed: for raster image formats and other special image formats; also
for audio
heycam; should use same mechanism as video
ed: not so useful for image formats
heycam; handling fallback for raster images is not well specified,
but how often do people use other formats
ChrisL: bitonal tiff is common for cad
krit: so on video and audio, html5 does not use requiredFormats
heycam; right you use the track and the first supported one is used
scribe: you cant have other svg displayed conditional on the format
support tough
heycam: media types do not specify the codec
... what about codec registries
ChrisL; yes the intent is to add a parameter to the media type,to
specify the codec
heycam; registry is for avi and wav containers
scribe: not clear its up to date
heycam: neutral on requiredFormats in general
krit; we don't need requiredFormats because html5 video and audio
don't use it
ed: with downloadable fonts, requiredFonts is less useful
ChrisL: does add value if the font is 404, and it allows tro depend
on a set of fonts being available. css does not have that although
it has been requested
heycam; agree it is not otherwise available
ed: opera implements them both, not seen that much use. ok either
way
ChrisL: with dl fonts its actually more useful to be able to do
conditional based on a set of fonts
heycam; reqFonts is simpler than reqFornmats (no codec worries) so
more in favor
scribe: still unsure about the switch-heavy approach in general
krit: neutral on requiredFonts
<ed> you can use the required* attributes without switch too
<ed> even if it's more useful with probably :)
heycam: accept requirement for requiredFonts
resolution: SVG2 wil adopt the requiredFonts attribute
... SVG2 will not adopt the requiredFormats attribute
the Progressive Rendering algorithm
[28]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#t
he_Progressive_Rendering_algorithm
[28]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#the_Progressive_Rendering_algorithm
ChrisL: this is good clarification
heycam; agree we should be more precise than with 1.1. Need to tie
in with HTML5 document processing.
scribe: start with the text here and modify it wrt html5
resolution: SVG2 will add more precise text on progressive
rendering, drawing on svgt 1.2 and html5
the <prefetch> element
<heycam>
[29]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#t
he_.3Cprefetch.3E_element
[29]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#the_.3Cprefetch.3E_element
[30]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/struct.html#PrefetchElement
[30] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/struct.html#PrefetchElement
ChrisL: its for explicit prefetch rather than relying on @w or @h
zero
heycam; in scripting this can be done with new image - but this
works for non scripted
scribe: has a bunch of attrs that are relevant for media, like how
many seconds to prefetch and how much bandwidth to use(!)
... not sure about the media-specific things
ChrisL: why
heycam; conflict with html5, and not sure thay are super useful
krit; spec says ua can ignore the prefetch hint
heycam: can have an image with visibility: hidden which causes
prefetch - but would not want the audio to start
ed: opera did not implement this for media, just for images
ChrisL: remember we resolved to have a audio voume property so
itcould be prefetched and muted
heycam: since we can prefetch anyway, not sure how useful the
optional prefetch hint is
... first para says svg 1.1does not define when referenced resources
start downloading. we should define thst, to make vis: hidden
prefetching reliable
... then we would not need prefetch element
krit: agree
ed: not that useful
ChrisL; ok
resolution: svg2 will not have the prefetch element but will clarify
when resources start doanloading
<ed> i would like us to state whether resources start downloading as
soon as you set the href, even if it's not appended to the document
<ed> similar to Image in html, e.g var img = new Image(); img.src =
"foo"
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: cameron to mail brian about thesvgt 1.2 animation
items [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: chris to look into the repeating while preserving
aspect ratio before repeating [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: erik to make css3 background and border tests
[recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
Received on Sunday, 22 January 2012 23:03:50 UTC