- From: Cameron McCormack <cam@mcc.id.au>
- Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:10:37 +1000
- To: SVG public list <www-svg@w3.org>
Minutes from today's SVG WG telcon:
http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
26 Apr 2012
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0019.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
Erik, Dirk, Nikos, Cameron, Tav, Chris, Jen
Regrets
Doug, Rik
Chair
ed
Scribe
Cameron
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]progress update for SVG2
2. [6]canvas in SVG
3. [7]replacing SVGException with new Web IDL exceptions
4. [8]Hamburg F2F agenda
5. [9]masks and filters being children of what they apply
to
6. [10]July F2F dates
7. [11]transforms on svg:svg elements
8. [12]text decorations and rotated glyphs
9. [13]mail from EXI regarding path syntax
* [14]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 26 April 2012
<scribe> Scribe: Cameron
<scribe> ScribeNick: heycam
progress update for SVG2
<ed>
[15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Co
mmitments
[15]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Commitments
ED: there have been a couple of placeholders added
… I was wondering about how to deal with proposals
… everything in the table that needs a proposal, is it fine to
put something in the spec, or should we go through the mailing
list first?
CM: could just add it to the spec
… bring it up on the list before, if you think it will be
controversial
DS: I couldn't find the canvas topic on the list of
requirements
<krit> Tav:
[16]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Co
mmitments
[16]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Commitments
TB: I've taken where people have made committments, where it's
easy to do so, I've added a note/annotation in the spec
… I've listed the requirement, resolution, when the resolution
was made, why, and who is committed to doing it
… there are some things I don't know where they're supposed to
go
ED: the next step is just to start editing those sections
canvas in SVG
<ed>
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2011Jul/0081.ht
ml
[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2011Jul/0081.html
DS: I think it's necessary that we support this
… this will be an SVG canvas element and not an HTML one
TB: would it work just like any other image?
DS: I don't think there's anything special to handle
… in HTML, it has width/height attributes and properties
… referencing the HTML spec might be a tricky part
CM: alex's mail suggests other features for canvas that aren't
in the HTML one, automatically calling a function to repaint
for example
DS: I am happy to take on that requirement if nobody else wants
to
<ChrisL> +1
RESOLUTION: SVG2 will have a canvas element, the exact details
TBD.
<ChrisL> good to resolve this, thought we already did but I
don't have a link
<scribe> ACTION: Dirk to add an entry to the requirements and
commitments page for canvas in SVG [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3263 - Add an entry to the
requirements and commitments page for canvas in SVG [on Dirk
Schulze - due 2012-05-03].
replacing SVGException with new Web IDL exceptions
CL: no objections, sounds like a good thing to do
ED: I think that's fine
CM: I think it's unlikely people are relying on the exact
details of SVGException
RESOLUTION: SVG2 will use Web IDL style exceptions in place of
SVGException
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to make SVG2 use Web IDL exceptions
instead of SVGException [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3264 - Make SVG2 use Web IDL
exceptions instead of SVGException [on Cameron McCormack - due
2012-05-03].
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to rewrite SVG2's IDL to use Web IDL
[recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3265 - Rewrite SVG2's IDL to use Web
IDL [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-05-03].
Hamburg F2F agenda
<ed>
[21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Hamburg_2012/age
nda_proposals
[21]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Hamburg_2012/agenda_proposals
ED: a reminder to put agenda proposals on the page
CL: we decided to meet in zurich already I think
CM: yes
masks and filters being children of what they apply to
[22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJu
n/0020.html
[22]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0020.html
ED: Brian is asking to add this to the requirements list
CM: is the idea to have <mask>, <filter>, etc. to apply to
their parents?
CL: it's not clear
… in existing SVG, how would you tell the difference between a
mask masking its parent, a <g> or an <svg>, and this new way?
CM: I think automatically having them apply to their parent
would break content
CL: we would need a switch to turn that behaviour on
… does mask point to something?
ED: the mask property points to the mask element
… I don't think the mask element points to anything
CL: can we use the absence of this url() value to indicate this
new behaviour?
NA: I think the pointer is around the way
ED: one way is to introduce a keyword the mask property,
mask="child" for example
… we already have url() or none
<ChrisL> ok so the filter property value is FuncIRI | none |
parent
DS: we should take into account that an FX spec will want to
specify the mask property
CL: all properties can be expressed as presentation attributes
… are you worried about the webkit mask property?
DS: yes
CL: there, they want to point to an image
… they can still use url() to point to a raster image, we'd
just need to relax the wording of the property definition to
say it can point to images as well as a mask element
[discussion of whether to allow "child" as a value for the
property, vs just the presentation attribute, vs on the mask
element itself]
CM: so you would rather an attribute on the <mask> element that
says "apply to parent"
<ChrisL> yes
ED: it might be more intuitive that way
<ChrisL> like animation elements do
CL: current implementations would ignore any new <mask
applytoparent> elements
ED: one advantage of having it on the property, the element
that uses the mask you know directly there that it is going to
be masked
… otherwise you need to traverse the subtree and find the mask
element
CM: same for animation though
DS: clip path, gradient, patterns
… would the pattern apply to fill or stroke?
CL: same question for gradients
DS: what about two mask elements?
<ChrisL> mask and clip are unambiguous when applying to the
parent. gradient and pattern could apply to the stroke or the
fill ...
CM: I wonder if it's more useful for clip path, mask, filters
than gradients/patterns
<ChrisL> who proposed the requirement?
Brian Birtles
<ChrisL> ACTION: brian to propose in detail how mask and clip
work on parents [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3266 - Propose in detail how mask and
clip work on parents [on Brian Birtles - due 2012-05-03].
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to follow up with Brian about
ACTION-3266 [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3267 - Follow up with Brian about
ACTION-3266 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-05-03].
July F2F dates
<ed>
[25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJu
n/0023.html
[25]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0023.html
CM: if we could move it to the start of the week, that would be
convenient to have at the start of the week
krit, [26]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings
[26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings
CL: we need to find out if the Seattle site and the Paris site
can do it
… I also proposed in the email that the Seattle side start a
couple of hours earlier, 7am-3pm say, that would make it
4pm-midnight in France
<krit> Seattle F2F 23 to 25 of July
<ChrisL> Ok so its Mon 23 to Weds 25 July
transforms on svg:svg elements
DS: we already have viewBox on <svg:svg>, when does transform
apply?
… I propose, transform then viewBox then preserveAspectRatio
then width/height/etc.
CM: so like wrapping the <svg> element with a <g transform>
… I think that makes sense
<krit> <g transform=""><svg></svg><g> == <svg transform ...>
ED: is this only for nested elements?
DS: also for top level
CL: I think it's important for the behaviour of referencing
this top level element, and just rendering it, to be the same
… so it should also apply to the top level
… people who are doing mapping, where you want to zoom in and
move around, it's easier to have a transform and modify it on
the root
DS: and keep the viewBox
CM: where does the currentTranslate, currentScale fit in?
ED: I think they would come in first
CL: we did define this precisely in TIny 1.2
… we decided to copy that across to SVG2
<ed>
[27]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/svgudom.html#svg__SVGSVGElem
ent
[27] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/svgudom.html#svg__SVGSVGElement
DS: would we want to integrate the currentTranslate,
currentScale into the transform?
<ChrisL> no, I was thinking more of
[28]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/coords.html#transform-usersp
ace
[28] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/coords.html#transform-userspace
<ed>
[29]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/struct.html#__svg__SVGSVGElement
__currentScale
[29]
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/struct.html#__svg__SVGSVGElement__currentScale
ED: the UA translations/scales might be modified by browser
chrome, menu items
… I think it makes sense to keep separate
CM: I'm happy to keep them separate
DS: does this also mean we make SVGSVGElement be
SVGTransformable?
CL: yes I think we would
<scribe> ACTION: Dirk to investigate currentTranslate etc. and
how they fit with <svg:svg transform=""> [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3268 - Investigate currentTranslate
etc. and how they fit with <svg:svg transform=""> [on Dirk
Schulze - due 2012-05-03].
text decorations and rotated glyphs
[31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2012Mar/0056.ht
ml
[31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2012Mar/0056.html
CM: do text decorations rotate along with rotated glyphs?
CL: what the content author expects is "it depends"
… if they're rotating a few glyphs 10 degrees left and right,
they probably want the underline to be continuous underneath
… if they're doing shifts and things, they probably want the
decoration to shift with the glyphs
… that argues to me to have both behaviours, and a way to
switch between them
CL: sometimes the underline is just drawn as a stroke, but
sometimes it's a feature of the font
… also CSS has some odd rules for colouring of decorations
CM: I hope we can have the same behaviour as CSS for decoration
colours
CL: I think we made a good effort to align with CSS
ED: CSS doesn't have paints for fill/stroke
<ChrisL> css color property is effectively text-fill-color
CL: would this be a separate property or a new value for
text-decoration?
CM: I think a separate property would be better
<ChrisL> text-decoration-transform : track | ignore
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to propose a property for making text
decorations rotate or not [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3269 - Propose a property for making
text decorations rotate or not [on Cameron McCormack - due
2012-05-03].
mail from EXI regarding path syntax
<ed>
[33]http://www.w3.org/mid/23204FACB677D84EBD57175AB7B5A71C01176
D05F061@FMSAMAIL.fmsa.local
[33]
http://www.w3.org/mid/23204FACB677D84EBD57175AB7B5A71C01176D05F061@FMSAMAIL.fmsa.local
CL: I thought we had decided anyway to have an element syntax
for paths
… and an API that works on both syntaxes
… an EXI pre-processor could also use the API to decompose the
path out into the verbose notation
<ed>
[34]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Ma
iling_List_Feedback#Introduce_element-based_path_syntax
[34]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing_List_Feedback#Introduce_element-based_path_syntax
<scribe> ACTION: Chris to the mail from EXI WG on the current
status of the verbose path notation [recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3270 - The mail from EXI WG on the
current status of the verbose path notation [on Chris Lilley -
due 2012-05-03].
<scribe> Chair: Erik
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: brian to propose in detail how mask and clip work
on parents [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to follow up with Brian about ACTION-3266
[recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to make SVG2 use Web IDL exceptions
instead of SVGException [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to propose a property for making text
decorations rotate or not [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to rewrite SVG2's IDL to use Web IDL
[recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Chris to the mail from EXI WG on the current
status of the verbose path notation [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: Dirk to add an entry to the requirements and
commitments page for canvas in SVG [recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Dirk to investigate currentTranslate etc. and how
they fit with <svg:svg transform=""> [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-svg-minutes.html#action06]
[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 26 April 2012 22:11:12 UTC