- From: Erik Dahlstrom <ed@opera.com>
- Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:17:12 +0200
- To: "public-svg-wg@w3.org" <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
Minutes here:
http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html
and for trackbot:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
30 Mar 2009
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0323.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
ChrisL, Doug_Schepers, jwatt, ed_, anthony, heycam
Regrets
Chair
Cameron
Scribe
erik
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]CSS/SVG coordination list
2. [6]Trait accessors for animation
3. [7]SVG integration module
4. [8]SVG in HTML
5. [9]Thoughts on cleaning up SVG 1.1 for Second Edition
6. [10]Raising the issue of multi-threading
7. [11]ICC color
8. [12]telcon times
9. [13]f2f meeting dates
* [14]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 30 March 2009
<shepazu> ChrisL: remember, we set it an hour back?
<ChrisL> huh?
<shepazu> it's not for another hour
<shepazu> has the EU DST kicked in?
<ChrisL> I thought we were waiting for australia to change, next
week
<ChrisL> yes, it kicked in on Sunday
<shepazu> that explains it
<ChrisL> zakim believes its now
<shepazu> here, it's still just 2:40, the telcon is scheduled for
3:30 boston time
<shepazu> yes, zakim has been confused for weeks
<shepazu> I put in the request a while back, but it doesn't seem to
have taken
<shepazu> er
<shepazu> freudian slip?
<shepazu> well, I got a response, but it didn't seem to work
<shepazu> sure, you know my #?
<shepazu> 1-919-932-9872
<shepazu> btw, I've rethought the new telcon times
<shepazu> I can try to get up at 6:30 for a 7:00 call, if it works
better for you
<shepazu> trackbot, start telcon
<trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 30 March 2009
<ChrisL> zakim +00 is me
<scribe> scribe: erik
<scribe> scribeNick: ed_
CSS/SVG coordination list
DS: we've got this list now, for future transforms specs we should
point to this list
<shepazu> public-fx@w3.org
Trait accessors for animation
<heycam>
[15]http://www.w3.org/mid/A13D0B44629697468E9C6AE200CFD39A61A231FB1C
@mailkeeper.mdigitalm.com
[15]
http://www.w3.org/mid/A13D0B44629697468E9C6AE200CFD39A61A231FB1C@mailkeeper.mdigitalm.com
[16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/032
7.html
[16]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0327.html
CM: yeah, it should be the fill for the animation elements, not the
<animation> element only
... create an erratum for this?
<scribe> ACTION: AG to create an erratum for SVGT12, clarifying
'fill' in traitaccess, see
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/032
7.html [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[17]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0327.html
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2505 - Create an erratum for SVGT12,
clarifying 'fill' in traitaccess, see
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/032
7.html [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-04-06].
[19]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0327.html
SVG integration module
DS: we could make a spec that would be the lists of all elements in
all svg specs
... it would have method names, attribute names, and it would be
normative
... and point to definitions of the relevant specs
... and also how svg integrates with other web techs, e.g svg in
html:img... need not be html, could be docbook, odf etc
... have different usage scenarios
... that way the html5 spec wouldn't have to a list of
elements/attributes
... for svg
CL: right, we could produce such a list
CM: you mention this table, and security issues etc
... it'd be good to have somewhere to write it down
... i think it warrants a spec, this is a common theme
DS: yes, these are all integration issues
... this would be good for ODF, if they decide to use svg as a
native image format
CM: we could bring it back into svg 2.0 when it's ready
DS: should we do this?
CL: don't see a down side for doing this
DS: how hard would it be to change the scripts to generate tables of
elements/attributes?
CM: probably not that hard
... the tiny12 has an rng, and that would be easy
... hsivonen is using a slightly modified version of the full 1.1
RNG, so it can't be that far off
... it'd be easier if 1.1 had an RNG, there's one
<ChrisL> look into trang
CM: we'd like to have all elements from 1.1 and 1.2T, right?
CL/DS: yes
DS: it'd still be a good idea to rewrite the RNG into functional
modules
CL: maybe start with the SVG 1.2 and then delete stuff
DS: we could get rberjon to help us
... our rng was flawed in a few places for 1.2T
RESOLUTION: we will make an SVG integration module
DS: it would be nice because we could get a diff between 1.1 and
1.2T, for elements etc
CM: probably one reason to get a such a table would be to get HTML5
to reference it
CL: producing it will still help other people/specs
<scribe> ACTION: heycam to create an SVG integration module and
setup scripts for it [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2506 - Create an SVG integration module
and setup scripts for it [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-04-06].
<scribe> ACTION: DS to contact robin berjon to ask for help with
converting the 1.1 DTD to RNG and related issues [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2507 - Contact robin berjon to ask for
help with converting the 1.1 DTD to RNG and related issues [on Doug
Schepers - due 2009-04-06].
SVG in HTML
CM: we sent off our proposal document, which didn't address all of
the points
... little of which actually resulted in changes in the html5 spec
<ChrisL> So this document was produced as an action in the HTML WG,
then rejected out of hand?
CM: it seems ian doesn't really want to get proposed working, so
wording on that document itself seems a waste of time
<ChrisL> Suggest contacting the chair to ensure our document is
reviewed
CL: suggest to talk to the HTMLWG chair and put it on their agenda
CM: there discussions ongoing on www-svg, and public-html
<heycam> CM: perhaps for now the best venue for these discussions is
on those mailing lists, then
<shepazu> y'all calling back?
<jwatt> gah!
<jwatt> conf restricted
<heycam> jwatt, use 26631 as the code
<jwatt> when?
<heycam> when you dial back in?
<jwatt> thought you meant as a passcode :/
<jwatt> ta
CM: I have an action to collate the remaining issues we hadn't got
consensus on yet
... and to integrate them into the document
... but maybe it would be better to crosspost them to the
mailinglist instead?
DS: can we change the SVG 1.1 so radically (to convert the 1.1 DTD
to RNG)?
CL: we should talk to philippe about that
<scribe> ACTION: CL to check if we can replace the SVG 1.1 DTD with
an RNG [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2508 - Check if we can replace the SVG 1.1
DTD with an RNG [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-04-06].
CM: so, what about discussing the HTML issues on the lists?
CL: sounds good
DS: yeah
CM: there are some constructive discussions going on there
... ok, I'll post the things we don't have consensus on
... and suggest that everyone join in on the discussions
Thoughts on cleaning up SVG 1.1 for Second Edition
CM: i'm looking at remaking the build scripts
... and also how to make 1.1 look a bit better
... to build the 1.1 spec and get the second edition published
... in the old cvs there's no master copy, so the source is rather
bad
<heycam> [23]http://mcc.id.au/temp/struct.html
[23] http://mcc.id.au/temp/struct.html
<ChrisL> the code seems to have autogenerated markup but we don't
have the sources or the scripts from which it was built
CM: here's an example of how it could look, main change is replacing
the DTD fragments with something more readable
DS: an author reading the spec will understand this more easily
CM: the IDL will get generated definitions also
... I've written an IDL parser, and use that for generating the
interface definitions
<heycam> <a>'svg'</a>
CM: another advantage is that in the master version you can write
<a>'svg'</a> and have it transformed into something useful
<heycam> <a>container element</a>
DS: and for definitions?
CM: yes
<ChrisL> for elements, attributes, properties and definitions
CL: what about types? strings, iri?
<ChrisL> cool
CM: could use the same, not done yet though
CL: would be useful to have them
CM: the intro chapter defs would be nice, and where elements are in
the spec etc
... parsing of
... if people are happy with this style then I can commit the
scripts
CL: would like to use it for new modules
CM: could help with cross spec references too
... will check it into cvs even though it's not fully ready
... will let ppl know when it's ready for use
... links to interfaces would be nice
Raising the issue of multi-threading
CM: AA was asking about getBBox, and multithreading
[24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/032
1.html
[24]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0321.html
JW: it's contrary to how you use the DOM, and it wouldn't stop it
from getting svg bbox
CL: multithreading is fine, if you can get advantages from it
... but you have to deal with making the implementation behave a
certain predictable way
<ChrisL> but you have to sync up the threads
CM: right, to have getBBox block until you can get a valid result
... it took a while until Firefox returned proper values from
getBBox, and to break that would be a step backwards
... there's content that relies on this already
ED:
[25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/032
4.html has some suggestions for clarifying getBBox
... 1.1 doesn't have the 1.2T wording about implementation-dependent
bboxes for elements outside the document tree
[25]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0324.html
JW: values can sometimes be resolved in a meaningful way, eg.
<svg><rect></svg>
<scribe> ACTION: ed to create an errata item for SVG 1.1 and the
getBBox method, as described in
[26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/032
1.html [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html#action05]
[26]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0321.html
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2509 - Create an errata item for SVG 1.1
and the getBBox method, as described in
[28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/032
1.html [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-04-06].
[28]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0321.html
<ChrisL> [29]http://www.codedread.com/svg-support.php
[29] http://www.codedread.com/svg-support.php
<ChrisL> in the link above there is also a Firefox pre3.6+SMIL
ICC color
[CL explains @color-profile]
JW: would be nice to have a way to specify the profile for the
document
... if you wanted to resuse some profile from someone, you might
want to set on a subtree only
CL: in terms of minimizing the syntax it won't give you much
... you'd still have to do the rgb fallbacks
... reasonable to make some changes but might be incompatible with
1.1
AG: I've got some ppl here to review the color spec
... underspecified for printing, overspecified for web authoring
CL: i'd like to know the details of those
AG: what group do we want to target?
CL: I'd think both
<ChrisL> its for repurposing content, screen+print, with an eye on
screen improving
CL: we haven't covered colormatched raster images
... if you mix raster and vectors you want to fit colors together
AG: agree that the web needs more than sRGB
telcon times
[30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/020
2.html
[30]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0202.html
Mon 11:00 AM UTC, Mon 1:00 PM Central Europe, Mon 9:00 PM Eastern
Australia, Mon 7:00 AM Eastern US/Canada.
Wed 11:00 AM UTC, Wed 1:00 PM Central Europe, Wed 9:00 PM Eastern
Australia, Wed 7:00 AM Eastern US/Canada.
CM: fine for me
ED: great for me
DS: i'm flexible
[31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/027
1.html
[31]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0271.html
[32]http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2
009&month=4&day=1&hour=6&min=30&sec=0&p1=239&p2=240&p3=188&iv=1800
[32]
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2009&month=4&day=1&hour=6&min=30&sec=0&p1=239&p2=240&p3=188&iv=1800
<ChrisL>
[33]http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=5&d
ay=1&year=2009&p1=239&p2=240&p3=188&p4=-1&iv=1800
[33]
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=5&day=1&year=2009&p1=239&p2=240&p3=188&p4=-1&iv=1800
<ChrisL> Fri 8:30 AM Stockholm Fri 4:30 PM Sydney 02:30 AM NC
<ChrisL> 8:30 AM Stockholm Fri 4:30 PM Sydney 02:30 AM NC
<ChrisL> Mon and Weds
f2f meeting dates
CL: june f2f date conflicts with CSS meeting
[34]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/NCF2F2009
[34] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/NCF2F2009
<ChrisL> css wg is 3-5 June
DS: we could colocate with libregraphics
<ChrisL> [35]http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/2009/
[35] http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/2009/
<ChrisL> Montreal, 6 - 9 may 2009
DS: maybe next year we could do that
<ChrisL> [36]http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/2009/
[36] http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/2009/
DS: let's plan our F2F for the second week of june
June 8 - 12
AG: fine with me
<ChrisL> [37]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings
[37] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings
<ChrisL> need to update that, and the poll
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: AG to create an erratum for SVGT12, clarifying 'fill'
in traitaccess, see
[38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/032
7.html [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: CL to check if we can replace the SVG 1.1 DTD with an
RNG [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: DS to contact robin berjon to ask for help with
converting the 1.1 DTD to RNG and related issues [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: ed to create an errata item for SVG 1.1 and the
getBBox method, as described in
[42]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/032
1.html [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: heycam to create an SVG integration module and setup
scripts for it [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[38]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0327.html
[42]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0321.html
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
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([46]CVS log)
$Date: 2009/03/30 21:14:19 $
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[45] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[46] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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[47] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/reject/request/
Succeeded: s/everybody loves html, high five!/SVG in HTML/
Succeeded: s/working/wording/
Succeeded: s/other stuff/ICC color/
Found Scribe: erik
Found ScribeNick: ed_
WARNING: Replacing list of attendees.
Old list: Shepazu heycam [IPcaller] ed_ +003395249aaaa ChrisL anthony j
watt
New list: ChrisL Doug_Schepers jwatt ed_ anthony heycam
Default Present: ChrisL, Doug_Schepers, jwatt, ed_, anthony, heycam
Present: ChrisL Doug_Schepers jwatt ed_ anthony heycam
Agenda: [48]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMa
r/0323.html
Found Date: 30 Mar 2009
Guessing minutes URL: [49]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: ag cl ds ed heycam
[48]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0323.html
[49] http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html
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--
Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed
Received on Monday, 30 March 2009 21:18:04 UTC