- From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:05:15 +0100
- To: public-svg-wg@w3.org
Hello public-svg-wg,
Minutes are at
http://www.w3.org/2009/02/26-svg-minutes.html
and below as text for tracker.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: anthony draft use cases and requirements for z-index and compare and contrast with transforms and critically discuss with reference to a neo-marxist dialictic [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/26-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: anthony to check equations for blending and add informative ref to ISO 32000-1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/26-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: doug to reply to Dean on 3d transforms [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/26-svg-minutes.html#action02]
SVG Working Group Teleconference
26 Feb 2009
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0172.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2009/02/26-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
Shepazu, heycam, ed__, ChrisL, [IPcaller], anthony, erik, a,
dalek
Regrets
Chair
erik
Scribe
chris
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Referencing ISO-32000-1 for blending Compositing
module]
2. [6]transforms review
3. [7]Transitions and Animations
4. [8]z-index use cases and requirements
5. [9]tpac 2009
6. [10]back to transforms
7. [11]odf and svg
* [12]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 26 February 2009
<scribe> scribe: chris
<scribe> scribenick: chrisl
Referencing ISO-32000-1 for blending [Compositing module]
cl: is this a normative or informative reference, and will the
equations be in our spec of just referenced?
cmc: costs money?
cl: of course
ds: prefer to have the equations in our spec, can reference the ISO
as well
... and better to be in a RF spec
cl: normative or informative?
ds: informative. Useful to know the connection between them
cl: agree
cmc: if its nortmative then you still should buy it in case
ed: good to have all the equations in our spec
resolved: equations for compositing will be in the svg spec, with an
informative reference to ISO 3200-1
<scribe> ACTION: anthony to check equations for blending and add
informative ref to ISO 32000-1 [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/26-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2480 - Check equations for blending and
add informative ref to ISO 32000-1 [on Anthony Grasso - due
2009-03-05].
ag: will do, not checked the equations yet
... will check the equations again, needs some testing to verify
transforms review
<anthony>
[14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/CSS-Transforms-Review
[14] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/CSS-Transforms-Review
[15]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/csswg/css3-2d-transforms/Ove
rview.html?rev=1.3&content-type=text/html:%20charset=iso-8859-1
[15] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/csswg/css3-2d-transforms/Overview.html?rev=1.3&content-type=text/html:%20charset=iso-8859-1
cl: (explains stacking context)
ds: liked your email comments, chris... they seem more likely to be
fruitful
before "Currently, Firefox and Safari throw away" say "Since
backward compatibility is important we tested current browwsers and
currently ...."
should probably motivate why openvg is important
existing implementations get acceleration from openvg, etc
cl: the overasll review document is good, I just had some specific
comments
ds: its important that we support css in this useful work
ed: sounds good
ag: been editing live, these are ready to go
cmc: i have a few detailed comments in email
... want clarification on matrix sizes and math
ag: need to commit the new draft of svg transforms
cl: the css spec needs some references to explain transforms and
matrices for those unaware
ed: we have a minuted resolution to publish
ds: plh said recently that tight integration and strong coordination
is important
ag: did we respond to dean's email?
cmc: send a reply to dean thanking him, and point to this review?
<scribe> ACTION: doug to reply to Dean on 3d transforms [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/26-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2481 - Reply to Dean on 3d transforms [on
Doug Schepers - due 2009-03-05].
referencing
[17]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/CSS-Transforms-Review
[17] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/CSS-Transforms-Review
cmc: i still have some comments yet to make
ds: ok lets talks offline and I will send it over the weekend
cl: css wg will likely be discussing these documents next week in
japan
Transitions and Animations
cmc: so we are going to send outr individual non-svgf related stuff
directly, and coordinate on a wg response for the svg specific
aspects
ds: think individual responses is more timely and allows more
discussion
... send responses to www-style with cc to www-svg
ed: i have a bunch of feedback on that, will send it next week
z-index use cases and requirements
issue-2226?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2226 -- Investigate the use cases and requirements
for z-index -- RAISED
<trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2226
[18] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2226
ed: good to have an action on this.
... does our spec deal with z-index?
ag: we have discussed it, in Sydney
[19]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/15-svg-minutes.html#item05
[19] http://www.w3.org/2009/02/15-svg-minutes.html#item05
pointer to stacking context
[20]http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/zindex.html
[20] http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/zindex.html
ed: we could define z-index the same way so that it also applies to
svg as well as being compatible with html
'z-index'
Value: auto | <integer> | inherit
Initial: auto
Applies to: positioned elements
Inherited: no
Percentages: N/A
Media: visual
Computed value: as specified
ag: instead of z-index, could also use the transform-style property,
to switch on z-ordering for a group of objects
cl: interesting option
ag: yes as it could apply only to container elements
... similar to layered groups
... as soon as document order is lost, impact on streaming and
rendering speed so being able to isolate the effects is beneficial
ds: would that need a whole shadow tree?
... if we have layered groups, it could be implemented by making a
shadow tree that replaces the docuent order subtree. but that could
be expensive on memory
cl: impact on filter effects / render background, and on event
bubbling .....
cmc: would complicate document updates as well
ds: maybe contact andrew and ask about layeredg
ed: think you just need a different tree traversal order, not a
whole copy of the subtree
ds: impact of that on keyboard navigation / docuent order?
... would this affect hierarchy eg with a use element that points
outside the z-ordered group
... example of two circles bing twiddled on z-order, then two use
elements that point to them
ag: i would say no, it gets really complex. import the transform not
the layered group it could get really hairy
ds: right, using them outside the layering context gets document
order not this new rendering order
ag: trying to ease implementor burden while keepin git simple and
powerful for authors
<shepazu> <layer><circle id="c1" .../><circle id="c2"
.../></layer><use xlink:href="#c1" .../><use xlink:href="#c2" .../>
ag: a reference to that ISO spec (for full title, for the
references)
[21]http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_deta
il.htm?csnumber=51502
[21] http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=51502
ds: need to name this carefully, eg inkscape already has laters that
are really more like groups
costs CHF 380,00
ed: so its good to gather use cases and requirements for z-index
ag: does this impact the transforms UC&R?
ed: should still examine the use case for it
cl: good in the transforms UC&R to discuss how this is similar to,
and different from, css 2.1 z-index
<scribe> ACTION: anthony draft use cases and requirements for
z-index and compare and contrast with transforms and critically
discuss with reference to a neo-marxist dialictic [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/26-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2482 - Draft use cases and requirements
for z-index and compare and contrast with transforms and critically
discuss with reference to a neo-marxist dialictic [on Anthony Grasso
- due 2009-03-05].
tpac 2009
<ed___>
[23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/017
4.html
[23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0174.html
cl: (explains tpac question - group attendance, timing, cost and
location)
ds: an advantage of the proposed location is silicon valley so more
particiation from browser vendors like mozilla, applle etc
[24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2009JanMar/0059
[24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2009JanMar/0059
ds: its one month after svg open in the same area
cl: prefer the cost-effective location
ds: perhaps shift svg open?
cl: not clear that the tpac will happen. depends on how many groups
confirm
... plh suggested a mini-tpac for browser-based technologies like
html, css, svg, webapps and so forth
ed: mini-tech plenary sounds good
ds: downside is that we miss being able to meet with other groups
[25]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34786/TPAC2009/results
[25] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34786/TPAC2009/results
ds: 3d Transforms have an impact on level of detail
ag: we need near and far clipping really
... this is 3d transforms applied toa 2d object then flattened to
give a 2d result
back to transforms
oops, should have changed topic sorrry
odf and svg
ds: it would be a win if odf were to use svg natively. currently
they don't. its being discussed in svg ig
... who is interested?
ed: yes, sure
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: anthony draft use cases and requirements for z-index
and compare and contrast with transforms and critically discuss with
reference to a neo-marxist dialictic [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/26-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: anthony to check equations for blending and add
informative ref to ISO 32000-1 [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/26-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: doug to reply to Dean on 3d transforms [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/26-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]
--
Chris Lilley mailto:chris@w3.org
Technical Director, Interaction Domain
W3C Graphics Activity Lead
Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
Received on Thursday, 26 February 2009 21:06:02 UTC