- From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:10:19 +0100
- To: "public-svg-wg@w3.org" <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
Hello public-svg-wg,
Minutes of the 11 December call are here
http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-svg-minutes.html
and below as text for trackbot
SVG Working Group Teleconference
11 Dec 2008
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
ed, heycam, anthony, Shepazu, ChrisL
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
ChrisL
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]HTML5
2. [5]Vacation break
3. [6]Selectors review
4. [7]clipping
5. [8]new template for 1.1 tests
* [9]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 11 December 2008
<scribe> scribe: ChrisL
<shepazu> scribeNick: ChrisL
HTML5
<ed>
[10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/042
0.html
[10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0420.html
(taking comments one by one)
ED: is it good to collect high level goals?
CMcC: Yes, it halps as long as they are not too abstract
ED: Suggested rewording avout remaining in XML
CL: Main aim was that folks using existing xml would not need to
change it to copy and paste
DS: Henri said that nonwelformed XML should be exposed as WF by the
browser after correction
CMcC: the later ones are higher level goals
DS: So rearrange, and put this one as a consequence. Say why, and
then it naturally falls out
CMcC: that more convincing, yes
ED: neither mail captures what we want
CL: Not sure we should push on validity. Well formed is more
important
ED: Want the fixups to be arked as errors
CMcC: No implied elements, would restrict ability to change the
language
... Parser will need to fix up idf the end tag is wrong
CL: At TPAC, agreement that the doctype etc would not be pasted in
DS: Until there are tools, they will not understand why its not
working. Paste in direct from illustrator and inkscape
... Need to ediucate people on what is allowed, some are allowed
within XHTL, others within HTML
CL: No doctype etc in the middle, obviously
CMcC: Some examples in my mail
CL: Entities are kind of a transitional phase, just use Unicode
nowadays
AG: Omitted quotes is abad idea because with complex syntax its not
always clear where the attribute value ends
DS: Lots of attrs take space-less strings and would be fine here,
and would be error corrected
<g title=a space string /> with orr characters/>
CMcC: This is error correction?
ED: Not in HTML5, its not an error
DS: Effect is the same.
... depends whether it reports an error or not
AG: I think its inconsistent
DS: Should be flagged as an error to help people who are trying to
do standalone svg
... need to be aware of quoting html5 quirks. makes it harder to
adapt content
CMcC: Fixed up export helps there
DS: yes
... But mashups, not using a browser, would be effected
... concerned that people have svg-like files, they download the
file and try to open in an authoring tool and it does not work. They
don't know why
AG: An artist will understand right click, save as, and then open
the file
CL: If browsers do silent fixup then there will be svg files that
are not well formed and cannot be edited
DS: This is why I said it should be seen as error correction
... no 'visible indication of error' but a log would show a warning
... eg in a validator
CL: Warning is very reasonable.
DS: Would not be surprised to see xml allow this also in the next 5
years
... SVG requires quotes
... Its ok as long as its acknowledged as error correction
ED: Perhaps we should discuss these in email
CMcC: Henri made a fork of Mozilla that uses the old HTML handling
of SVG
<heycam> [11]http://about.validator.nu/htmlparser/
[11] http://about.validator.nu/htmlparser/
<heycam> sorry not that url
<heycam> [12]http://hsivonen.iki.fi/html5-gecko-build/
[12] http://hsivonen.iki.fi/html5-gecko-build/
Vacation break
CL: here next week then off two weeks
<shepazu> [13]http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/
[13] http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/
AG: Working to Xmas, then off to 13 jan
DS: Working holiday
CMcC: next week ok?
(agreement seems to be to cancel from22 and restart from 5 Jan
ACTIN: Erik announce the xmas break
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to announce the xmas break [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2377 - Announce the xmas break [on Erik
Dahlström - due 2008-12-18].
Selectors review
<ed>
[15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/04
65.html
[15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0465.html
ED: Some feedback from lachlan
CL: Important thing is that the spec now clearly states that ns
functionality is not there. So thats good
ED: Node selector text is also improved
... I mentioned some potential non-interop, and he pushed back. i'm
happy to drop those. Selectors on subtrees outside the document will
not be interoperable however
... on list creation, its not very precise but its ok i guess
... mention of downlevel clients sparked some discussion
... refuses to add a DOM3 xpath informative reference
DS: Sicking makes good points
ED: On last issue he says he is reconsidering adding an example
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to respond to Lachlan on selectors api review
[recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2378 - Respond to Lachlan on selectors api
review [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-12-18].
clipping
DS: Not fully convinced by Thomas' argument. Seems to conflate
clipping paths with viewports?
CMcC: No, his example is a viewport one but he understands the
difference
... he brought in viewports and an example of something that clipped
out pointer events
CL: Consider a symbol, which has a clippath. The pointer events are
clipped in the other three quadrants unless overflow is enabled
DS: And with visiblePainted, thats what you get
<heycam> [17]http://mcc.id.au/temp/2008/clip-window.svg
[17] http://mcc.id.au/temp/2008/clip-window.svg
DS: Rules fr clip paths apply. Clip paths do not clip events al the
time, depends on value of pointer events. Whie whena vireewport is
established, events are always clipped itrtespective of the value
... asv clips the events no matter what. safari clips no events at
all
CcC: Proposal changes =it to allow either clipping or not
DS: Under author control
CMcC: Thomas' concern is that people have existing content that
depends on this. But behaviour is not fully defined in spec.
DS: Is this a real use case?
CMcC: yes, its how people create invisible event targets now
... but there are workarounds
DS: So I don't think this combination is very common as there are
better and more direct ways to do this
ED: Interesting to hear Mozilla view on this, would liked to have
asked JWatt or RoC
<scribe> ACTION: Doug ask Mozilla about this clipping issue
[recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2379 - Ask Mozilla about this clipping
issue [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-18].
ED: Wonder how much content uses clip path plus pointer-events
nondefault values
new template for 1.1 tests
<ed>
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/042
3.html
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0423.html
DS: If we make a schema we could have the validator at W3C be more
useful
CL: oXygen ships with a 1.1F XSD, we should get them to add an
SVGT1.2 RBG as well
DS: No need for an xml prolog
CL: Apart from non UTF-8, UTF-16, no need for an xml encoding
declaration
Resolved: New 1.1F template has no doctype and no xml declaration
(we agree that having one template is a good goal derived versions
can be made with xslt)
(discussion on version and baseProfile desirability in tests)
CL: version and baseProfile should only be aded where actually
needed. most tests do not require it
... and i agree about the 'approved' value, never understood why
that had a different value
ED; There was a distinction between approved an=d accepted, which
was that it was published for the public. Used to be a list. Now its
autogenerated
CL: Only downside is some (small) changes to the scripts
<scribe> ACTION: Anthony to look through scripts for any breakage
that would happen from conflating approved and accepted [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2380 - Look through scripts for any
breakage that would happen from conflating approved and accepted [on
Anthony Grasso - due 2008-12-18].
ED: Need to clarify what to do when dropping a test back to reviewed
or created
Resolved: the approved and accepted should be one value
ED: Wonder if there are tests which are accepted but not approved
meeting adjourned
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Anthony to look through scripts for any breakage that
would happen from conflating approved and accepted [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Doug ask Mozilla about this clipping issue [recorded
in [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to announce the xmas break [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to respond to Lachlan on selectors api review
[recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]
--
Chris Lilley mailto:chris@w3.org
Technical Director, Interaction Domain
W3C Graphics Activity Lead
Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
Received on Thursday, 11 December 2008 21:10:55 UTC