- From: Erik Dahlstrom <ed@opera.com>
- Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:08:44 +0200
- To: "public-svg-wg@w3.org" <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
Minutes available here:
http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html
or as plaintext below:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
16 Sep 2008
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0304.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
aemmons, Andrew_Sledd, anthony, ed, Doug_Schepers
Regrets
Chair
AE
Scribe
erik
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]LC comments
2. [6]Test fest update
3. [7]values of requiredExtensions to use XHTML/MathML
4. [8]Fixing the Test Suite
5. [9]Review of struct-discard-208-t.svg test
6. [10]SVG clip-path, mask and filter for non-SVG content
7. [11]priorities
* [12]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 16 September 2008
<scribe> scribe: erik
<scribe> scribeNick: ed
LC comments
AE: as of right now, there are no comments
... DS you'll be tracking them as they come in?
DS: yes, I'll put them in the LC tracking tool
Test fest update
AE: it's up in two weeks time
... not many responders
... three people coming
... want to remind everyone to respond
<shepazu>
[13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/OttawaF2F2008
[13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/OttawaF2F2008
<aemmons>
[14]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/svgOttawaTestFest2008/
[14] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/svgOttawaTestFest2008/
[15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings
[15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings
<shepazu>
[16]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/svgOttawaTestFest2008/
[16] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/svgOttawaTestFest2008/
AE: still negotiation to be able to go, but I think bitflash are
sending someone
... do we have implementations to test except for the people that
are coming?
DS: there's abbra, and I think chris contacted some people too
AE: so, at least one impl to gather results for there
... and julian from spinetix
... we want to have good coverage, but we need to have enough people
to do the testing
DS: the more people we have the better
AE: bitflash said they could send additional people if we need more
impls tested
... will send out an email about the testfest
... need to decide exactly where the meeting will be and so on
<scribe> ACTION: AE to move the ottawa testfest f2f page from the
private to the public wiki, and add the location etc [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2192 - Move the ottawa testfest f2f page
from the private to the public wiki, and add the location etc [on
Andrew Emmons - due 2008-09-23].
values of requiredExtensions to use XHTML/MathML
<aemmons>
[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/029
1.html
[18]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0291.html
AE: so in LC are we allowed to make any changes?
DS: got different answers
... the general consensus seem to be that it's ok to make changes in
LC
... any change that affects an implementation that makes us
reevaluate our test coverage isn't necessarily very good
AE: in this particular case, is this for SVG 1.1?
DS: i think it's for svg in general
AE: CL says adding an example might be a way forward
DS: i'm sceptical, it'd be non-normative
... we're making a spec for implementors
... we have an example that has xhtml in it, and it's using some
bogus requiredExtension string
... it's a good idea to change the example, but I don't think it's
enough
AE: should be raise it as an issue?
... and discuss it over the course of our last call, to wait for
further feedback
DS: we've already got feedback
... question is if this is useful or if it harms anything
AE: what does everyone think of it?
ED: I'd be happy adding it
<shepazu>
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/029
9.html
[19]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0299.html
ED: proposed wording looks ok
AE: makes sense to make it generic like that
<shepazu>
[20]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/struct.html#ExternalResourcesRe
quiredAttribute
[20]
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/struct.html#ExternalResourcesRequiredAttribute
AE: my only hesitation is to be careful with making changes to the
spec
DS: we'd need to make tests for it too
<shepazu>
[21]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/struct.html#RequiredExtensionsA
ttribute
[21]
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/struct.html#RequiredExtensionsAttribute
DS: how would you test it?
... abbra supports XHTML in foreignObject
AE: careful wording in the pass criteria would probably work
RESOLUTION: we'll clarify the wording in requiredextensions, adding
the proposed wording from DS for XHTML and MathML
DS: do we want an errata item for 1.1 too?
<scribe> ACTION: DS to implement the resolution "we'll clarify the
wording in requiredextensions, adding the proposed wording from DS
for XHTML and MathML" and add a corresponding errata item for SVG
1.1 [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2193 - Implement the resolution \"we'll
clarify the wording in requiredextensions, adding the proposed
wording from DS for XHTML and MathML\" and add a corresponding
errata item for SVG 1.1 [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-09-23].
RATIONALE: it's a proven interop issue, and the wording is ambigous,
and we want interop
<aemmons>
[23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/029
6.html
[23]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0296.html
Fixing the Test Suite
AE: CL said he fixed the second part already
... in the online version (so, for the next version)
... should we update the released package?
DS: I'd rather wait until we have new content
AE/NH/ED: agree
AE: the first part, is that something that could be changed in the
script
AG: file permissions don't get stored with the file do they?
DS: follow up with doh?
<scribe> ACTION: AG to follow up with DOH on
[24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/029
6.html regarding the first point [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[24]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0296.html
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2194 - Follow up with DOH on
[26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/029
6.html regarding the first point [on Anthony Grasso - due
2008-09-23].
[26]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0296.html
<aemmons>
[27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/029
8.html
[27]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0298.html
Review of struct-discard-208-t.svg test
AG: tests a specific part of discard
... the original tests didn't quite test it properly
AE: we shouldn't approve any new tests until the f2f
... but assigning a reviewer is ok of course
... I'll review it
<scribe> ACTION: AE to review struct-discard-208-t.svg [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2195 - Review struct-discard-208-t.svg [on
Andrew Emmons - due 2008-09-23].
AG: opera passes
NH: ikivo passes
<aemmons>
[29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/030
5.html
[29]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0305.html
SVG clip-path, mask and filter for non-SVG content
AG: quick question: are we still going to work on the testsuite
after 1.2T goes to rec?
DS: yes
AE: agree, it'll probably be more tests added
DS: to push us over 500 approved tests, would be nice
AE: ok, back to the clip-paths
ED: haven't had time to look at the proposal in detail yet
DS: was trimmed down from what he had before
[30]http://people.mozilla.com/~roc/SVG-CSS-Effects-Draft.html
[30] http://people.mozilla.com/~roc/SVG-CSS-Effects-Draft.html
<shepazu>
[31]http://people.mozilla.com/~roc/SVG-CSS-Effects-Draft.html
[31] http://people.mozilla.com/~roc/SVG-CSS-Effects-Draft.html
<shepazu>
[32]http://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-view/#elementview-getboundingclientre
ct
[32]
http://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-view/#elementview-getboundingclientrect
ED: would have to look at the CSS box model to see if that's the
most appropriate way of defining exactly what's the size of the svg
... concerned about borders, margin, padding
DS: any objections to taking this on?
AE: it sounds very powerful
RESOLUTION: we'll take on this work, and liaison with the CSS WG to
make sure this is ok
DS: what spec would it go in?
... filters? compositing?
... clipping and masking?
AE: do we want to raise an issue for this then?
DS: I'll add to tracker
... we could originate it in its own spec, like an svg-css spec
... might be more work though
AE: still some work to analyze this
DS: would prefer to put it in a spec now
<shepazu> [33]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/
[33] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/
AE: this is similar to the enableBackground (where wording is
different in two modules)
AG: problem is that we'll have to push changes to everywhere
AE: we could have the spec scripts pull changes from a central
location
... we need to solve how this is handled though
AG: yes, that's one way, I don't really mind how we solve this
... the other option is to make a small spec for things that
overlap, and include that in the modules
AE: problem with that is if you need one little bit only
... and it's own testsuite etc
... 1) pull in wording for e.g enable-background from some central
place for every module
... 2) have a small common module
DS: or 3) to have duplicated wording in each module
... problem is maintainability
... the second way is the profile way
... sounds like it would be better if it was specced out in one spec
first, and then pulled into core
AE: but do we want everything in core?
... for the common things
... because when you look at this it'd be a collection of stuff that
has little relation (except in context with the depending specs)
DS: so I think it makes sense to add roc's wording to the filters
spec, even the clipping case
AE: so with enable-background, does it need to say anything about
filters or clipping or can it be generic?
ED: it's pretty specific in filters, showing the algortihm for the
background-image generation
... not sure how it looks like in clipping/compositing
AG: the way i've used in compositing is different from the filters
spec
... describing attributes etc
... so if you want to pull in things how do we handle the fact that
specs are written in different style?
AE/DS: we should strive to have the same style
AE: we might change the filters spec to be the same style
... how do we merge things between modules? and how do we make sure
style is consistent?
<scribe> ACTION: ed to work with AG on integrating ROC's proposal
into the filters spec [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2196 - Work with AG on integrating ROC's
proposal into the filters spec [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-09-23].
<scribe> ACTION: AG to work with ED on integrating ROC's proposal
into the compositing/clipping&masking spec [recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2197 - Work with ED on integrating ROC's
proposal into the compositing/clipping&masking spec [on Anthony
Grasso - due 2008-09-23].
RESOLUTION: we'll fold the clipping&masking into the compositing
module
<shepazu> Rationale: the fewer modules, the easier the integration
of features
AE: so how do we merge common elements and attributes in modules,
and the stylistic things
<scribe> ACTION: AG to fold in the clipping&masking chapter into the
compositing module [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2198 - Fold in the clipping&masking
chapter into the compositing module [on Anthony Grasso - due
2008-09-23].
DS: do we want to assign editors for the new modules?
AE: maybe we should first decide the priorities?
... need to keep focused, and we need to have the style ready first
AG: yes, we need to do that first
... so we don't waste time later on
DS: so with vector-effects, I'd just pull in the 1.2Full draft into
the module
<shepazu> [37]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/template/
[37] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/template/
DS: we should probably reexamine this
... if this is the right approach
... for vector-effects
AG: yeah, there are a lot of problems with it as it stands
DS: ok
AE: so is there anywhere in the wiki we could have for stylistic
rules, like what should go in the primer etc
AG: that'd be helpful
AE: maybe we could all work on that
DS: AE do you want to start it up?
AE: I was thinking AG
AG: one example is in print, all requirements are highlighted in red
boxes
ED: i think i have an action to add that to filters too, but haven't
had time to do it yet
AE: it makes sense to have that on the wiki
<scribe> ACTION: AG to add a wikipage for new modules, describing
common styling etc [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2199 - Add a wikipage for new modules,
describing common styling etc [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-09-23].
priorities
DS: my wishlist: vector-effects (cool, but will take awhile before
implemented), the features that bitflash put in (the z-index) and
the 2.5D stuff
AE: yes, we want to have the 2.5D soon to see what people have done
so far
... and also from a market POV
DS: SCXML
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: AE to move the ottawa testfest f2f page from the
private to the public wiki, and add the location etc [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: AE to review struct-discard-208-t.svg [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: AG to add a wikipage for new modules, describing
common styling etc [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: AG to fold in the clipping&masking chapter into the
compositing module [recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: AG to follow up with DOH on
[43]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/029
6.html regarding the first point [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: AG to work with ED on integrating ROC's proposal into
the compositing/clipping&masking spec [recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: DS to implement the resolution "we'll clarify the
wording in requiredextensions, adding the proposed wording from DS
for XHTML and MathML" and add a corresponding errata item for SVG
1.1 [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: ed to work with AG on integrating ROC's proposal into
the filters spec [recorded in
[47]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html#action05]
[43]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0296.html
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [48]scribe.perl version 1.133
([49]CVS log)
$Date: 2008/09/16 12:07:22 $
_________________________________________________________
[48] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[49] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
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Check for newer version at [50]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002
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[50] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Found Scribe: erik
Found ScribeNick: ed
Default Present: aemmons, Andrew_Sledd, anthony, ed, Doug_Schepers
Present: aemmons Andrew_Sledd anthony ed Doug_Schepers
Agenda: [51]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSe
p/0304.html
Found Date: 16 Sep 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [52]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: ae ag ds ed
[51]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0304.html
[52] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-svg-minutes.html
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[53] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
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