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Minutes, SVG Nuremberg Face-to-Face Day 2, Friday 22 August 2008

From: Cameron McCormack <cam@mcc.id.au>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 04:02:10 +1000
To: public-svg-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <20080822180210.GA26298@arc.mcc.id.au>

http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                   SVG Working Group Teleconference

22 Aug 2008

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Doug, Cameron, Anthony, Erik

   Regrets
   Chair
          "Surprising formula for transform scale"

   Scribe
          Erik, anthony

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]ISSUE-2032 (Paced animation and complex types)
         2. [5]DOM 3 Events
         3. [6]camerons issues
         4. [7]Action triage
         5. [8]ACTION-2011
         6. [9]ACTION-2014
         7. [10]ACTION-2022
         8. [11]ACTION-2023
         9. [12]ACTION-2024
        10. [13]ACTION-2027
        11. [14]ACTION-2048
        12. [15]ACTION-2063
        13. [16]ACTION-2072
        14. [17]ACTION-2075
        15. [18]ACTION-2078
        16. [19]ACTION-2088
        17. [20]ACTION-2107
        18. [21]ACTION-2121
        19. [22]ACTION-2128
        20. [23]ACTION-2129
        21. [24]ACTION-2130
        22. [25]ACTION-2131
        23. [26]ACTION-2132
        24. [27]ACTION-2133
        25. [28]ACTION-2134
        26. [29]ACTION-2135
        27. [30]ACTION-2137
        28. [31]ACTION-2138
        29. [32]ACTION-2139
        30. [33]ACTION-2140
        31. [34]ACTION-2144
     * [35]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <trackbot> Date: 22 August 2008

   <heycam> Meeting: SVG Nuremberg F2F Day 2

   <heycam> ISSUE-2032?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2032 -- SVGT 1.2; 16.2.6 Paced animation and
   complex types -- RAISED

   <trackbot> [36]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2032

     [36] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2032

   <shepazu> scribenick: shepazu

ISSUE-2032 (Paced animation and complex types)

   ED: let's look at the issues one by one
   ... "unnecessary assertion"

   CM: seems a little nitpicky

   ED: yes, not immediately neccessary to change
   ... let's move all the points we don't change now to Core for
   later... this is stuff we need to address at some point
   ... "Inconsistencies"

   [37]http://schepers.cc/w3c/svg/animationDiff/ani-changes.html

     [37] http://schepers.cc/w3c/svg/animationDiff/ani-changes.html

   ED: is this still the same in the current draft? it seems it is

   CM: he has changed it to disallow paced animation of path, data, or
   list values

   ED: at least scalars or vectors or a mixture

   DS: must this be addressed now?

   ED: it's quite a big change

   DS: we're probably going to revamp animation a bit later anyway

   CM: I agree that the definitions are a bit arbitrary... what does
   1.1 say

   ED: it's not in 1.1

   CM: so, he's hoping to get it right the first time, since this was
   added for clarification
   ... but it's already implemented as specced

   DS: could we change in in the next version without breaking
   compatibility?

   ED: not sure

   DS: we should have discussed this a long time ago

   ED: it is a little inconsistent, but it's good to have it defined

   CM: the spec has the easiest definition that makes a small amount of
   sense, and I don't think there's much to be gained by removing it at
   this point

   "Wrong notation of value type"

   ED: I think he's correct with this, and we could make this change
   easily

   CM: I could fix this up

   Resolution: we will make sure all the value types to have to the the
   type definitions, and will fix the formatting of the data

   <scribe> ACTION: heycam to fix the notation of value types for paced
   animation [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2149 - Fix the notation of value types for
   paced animation [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-08-29].

   ED: "Obscure definition"

   CM: he's right about this one too

   ED: all of the control points --all of the values of the path
   syntax-- should be used

   CM: bit weird... what about flags for arcs

   ED: Tiny doesn't have arcs
   ... so, what should we replace point with?

   CM: we need to treat coordinate values as pairs, not as individual
   values... the formula only includes control points, I think
   ... wait, it looks like we already made a change

   AG: I think Andreas made that change

   <heycam>
   [39]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/animate.html.d
   iff?r1=1.84&r2=1.85&f=h

     [39] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/animate.html.diff?r1=1.84&r2=1.85&f=h

   <heycam> [40]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/actions/1337

     [40] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/actions/1337

   <heycam>
   [41]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2006Jun/0089.html

     [41] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2006Jun/0089.html

   ED: "Obviously absurd formula"

   "Trying to add an angle to a length is similar as to add one second
   to one kg minced meat"

   (awesome line)

   CM: I'd be happy to change that to only look at the angle and not at
   the origin of the rotation

   ED: what if you have 2 rotate transforms that have different center
   of rotation, and you want to do paced?

   CM: if we disregard the centerpoint, and make the distance based
   only on the difference of angle....
   ... if you have animation where the centerpoints are different, but
   the angles are the same, then that segment of the animation will
   take 0s
   ... and translation should be applied separately

   <ed> so remove "sqrt((v_a1 [$1\47] - v_b1 [$1\47])^2 + (v_a1 [$1\47]
   - v_b1 [$1\47])^2))) / 2" from the rotate

   Resolution: stop adding seconds to minced meat

   <scribe> ACTION: heycam to stop adding seconds to minced meat
   [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2150 - Stop adding seconds to minced meat
   [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-08-29].

   ED: the rationale for the formula is not explained, so the context
   is missing for people trying to use it
   ... on the other hand, that is something we could add later

   CM: unless we discover it makes no sense :)
   ... looking at Batik... I just add the difference between the 2
   dimensions, which is less sensible
   ... Euclidian does make some sense

   Resolution: we will use Euclidian distance formulae for type scale

   <scribe> ACTION: heycam to change paced animation of scale to use
   Euclidian distance formulae [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2151 - Change paced animation of scale to
   use Euclidian distance formulae [on Cameron McCormack - due
   2008-08-29].

   <scribe> Chair: "Interpretation of some given formulas missing"

   ED: let's defer this until later

   Chaiir: ED

   <scribe> Chair: ED

   ED: "The section is incomplete"
   ... list of coordinates is the same as list of length
   ... list of number should also be the same
   ... coodinate+ might be different

   CM: "coordinate+" should be "list of coordinate", and "number+"
   should be "list of number"

   DS: I'm a little concerned about changing this
   ... coordinate+ is a special case of the list, with at least one
   value

   Resolution: we will change "coordinate+" to "list of coordinate",
   and "number+" to "list of number" for consistency, and constrain
   them in the element definition to have at least one value

   <scribe> ACTION: heycam to change "coordinate+" to "list of
   coordinate", and "number+" to "list of number" for consistency
   [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2152 - Change \"coordinate+\" to \"list of
   coordinate\", and \"number+\" to \"list of number\" for consistency
   [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-08-29].

   Resolution: we will add "list of coordinate" and "list of number" to
   the paced animation table, with the same distance formula as "list
   of length"

   <scribe> ACTION: heycam to add "list of coordinate" and "list of
   number" to the paced animation table, with the same distance formula
   as "list of length" [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2153 - Add \"list of coordinate\" and
   \"list of number\" to the paced animation table, with the same
   distance formula as \"list of length\" [on Cameron McCormack - due
   2008-08-29].

   <scribe> ACTION: fattony to split unresolved points of ISSUE-268 /
   ISSUE-2032 into individual issues for Core [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action06]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2154 - Split unresolved points of
   ISSUE-268 / ISSUE-2032 into individual issues for Core [on Anthony
   Grasso - due 2008-08-29].

   <heycam> trackbot, close ACTION-2152

   <trackbot> ACTION-2152 Change "coordinate+" to "list of coordinate",
   and "number+" to "list of number" for consistency closed

   <ed> scribe: Erik

   <ed> scribeNick: ed

DOM 3 Events

   DS: D3E is not going to be a REC in december
   ... don't want to rush the D3E spec out
   ... we're going to have to remove the svgt12 dependency somehow
   ... most of the things we need are in dom 2 events
   ... we could change most of the references
   ... for those places where we depend on D3E we can put the additions
   in the uDOM or as an appendix
   ... probably better as an appendix

   CM: what parts of D3E do we depend on?
   ... namespaced events?

   ED: no, svgt12 events are in no namespace

   DS: it's mostly the keyboard stuff
   ... and that is implemented in SVG UA:s is from the D3E snapshot
   from a couple of years ago
   ... there's talk about changing D3E
   ... for the purpose of svgt12 it's probably better if we use that
   snapshot
   ... there are three different ways to identify a key
   ... the named key (unicode name), the unicode value (the codepoint),
   and the actual character itself (for keys that have characters)
   ... the control key is an example that has to be a named key because
   there's no unicode value for it

   CM: as long as these new things are added to this old keyidentifier
   and the model doesn't change much, then I think putting in what was
   in d3e into tiny12 is a workable solution

   DS: is the capital 'Q' returned for the 'q' key
   ... and what is the value of the key
   ... it's not predictable because of keyboard mapping between
   modified and unmodified key values
   ... we need to figure out how that affects keyidentifier

   CM: it is likely to be different from that 2year old draft

   DS: there could be an additional attribute on keyevent, keyvalue
   that is the actual mapped value for that key given its modifier
   state

   CM: good to expose this in this new keyevent
   ... the old draft doesn't expose this

   DS: I think we're going to have to use the unicode values, and D3E
   will be more comprehensive
   ... the softkeys will be in an appendix but non-normative

   RESOLUTION: to add a snapshot of keyidentifiers and KeyboardEvents
   from D3E to SVGT12
   ... and TextInputEvent

   CM: there's also CustomEvent, do we care about that?

   DS: no

   CM: there's nothing using them explicitly in svgt12
   ... there's MutationNameEvent
   ... not using that either
   ... wheelEvent

   DS: we have that, but we're aligning

   CM: all of the namespace-aware methods addEventListenerNS,
   removeEventListenerNS . The initEventNS method isn't used in uDOM.

   DS: all examples in the svgt12 spec should be corrected to not use
   namespaced events

   <scribe> ACTION: DS to add the keyboard events from DOM 3 Events to
   an SVGT12 appendix [recorded in
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action07]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2155 - Add the keyboard events from DOM 3
   Events to an SVGT12 appendix [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-08-29].

   CM: there's defaultPrevented in uDOM
   ... but stopImmidiatePropagation isn't in uDOM

   DS: maybe we can mark defaultPrevented as "at risk"

   CM: there are a couple of methods that throw more exceptions than in
   DOM 2 Events

   <heycam> EventTarget.dispatchEvent() was changed to throw a new
   exception (DISPATCH_REQUEST_ERR, which is also a new constant on
   EventException)

   CM: EventTarget.dispatchEvent isn't in uDOM
   ... and we don't have the EventException interface either
   ... canDispatch on DocumentEvent (not in uDOM)
   ... getModifierState on MouseEvent and KeyboardEvent (not in uDOM
   explicitly but we're going to add that method explicitly)
   ... we're not adding hasFeature
   ... focus, blur, dblclick were added to D3E but are not included in
   SVGT12

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to fix transition from DOM 3 Events to DOM
   2 Events and uDOM, and to fix testsuite [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action08]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2156 - Fix transition from DOM 3 Events to
   DOM 2 Events and uDOM, and to fix testsuite [on Cameron McCormack -
   due 2008-08-29].

   <anthony> trackbot, close ACTION-2154

   <trackbot> ACTION-2154 Split unresolved points of ISSUE-268 /
   ISSUE-2032 into individual issues for Core closed

   <scribe> scribe: erik

   <scribe> scribeNick: ed

camerons issues

   <heycam>
   [49]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080808065205.GD4643@arc.mcc.id.au

     [49] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080808065205.GD4643@arc.mcc.id.au

   RESOLUTION: take out <xslt-qname> from the SVGT12 RNG and the types
   chapter

   RATIONALE: it's not used anywhere

   <heycam>
   [50]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080809063244.GA22724@arc.mcc.id.au

     [50] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080809063244.GA22724@arc.mcc.id.au

   CM: I noticed that references uses sometimes the latest, sometimes
   the dated version

   DS: we shouldn't use the latest version

   <heycam>
   [51]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080810103228.GB8910@arc.mcc.id.au

     [51] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080810103228.GB8910@arc.mcc.id.au

   CM: various places that should use 'lacuna value', but i wasn't sure

   DS: looks like it should say lacuna value

   <heycam>
   [52]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080811062030.GG18982@arc.mcc.id.au

     [52] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080811062030.GG18982@arc.mcc.id.au

   CM: regardless of type of element the first element whose conditions
   evaluate to true will be the chosen one
   ... in a switch

   ED: so it shouldn't be talking about rendering elements, but
   processing of elements
   ... style changes agreed upon, but it's low priority

   <heycam>
   [53]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080811065441.GJ18982@arc.mcc.id.au

     [53] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080811065441.GJ18982@arc.mcc.id.au

   ED: it seems strange, there could be use-cases for having
   test-attributes on tbreak

   <heycam>
   [54]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080811070750.GK18982@arc.mcc.id.au

     [54] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080811070750.GK18982@arc.mcc.id.au

   DS: agree that it shouldn't run or remove itself

   <heycam>
   [55]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080812123435.GA14080@arc.mcc.id.au

     [55] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080812123435.GA14080@arc.mcc.id.au

   DS: yes, change the should to a must there

   <heycam>
   [56]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080818004208.GB18063@arc.mcc.id.au

     [56] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080818004208.GB18063@arc.mcc.id.au

   DS: I think CTM shouldn't include user transforms

   CM: there should be two terms, screen CTM and CTM
   ... I'll write some tests for it and come back with a proposal

   <heycam>
   [57]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080808063636.GA26296@arc.mcc.id.au

     [57] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080808063636.GA26296@arc.mcc.id.au

   DS: suggest mailing CL about this

   <heycam> [58]http://www.w3.org/mid/48A3AE10.3040407@w3.org

     [58] http://www.w3.org/mid/48A3AE10.3040407@w3.org

   RESOLUTION: we will mark the ElementTraversal stuff in SVGT12 "at
   risk" and reference the DOM 3 ElementTraversal spec instead

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to do all of the actions discussed above
   [recorded in
   [59]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action09]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2157 - Do all of the actions discussed
   above [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-08-29].

Action triage

   [60]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/2

     [60] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/2

   <aemmons> sure

   DS: the last day of the SVG testfest in Ottawa (sept 29-oct 2) will
   be dedicated to last call comments

   <anthony> scribe: anthony

   <scribe> ScribeNick: anthony

   ED: 29 Actions left

ACTION-2011

   ED: Something we could hold off
   ... I don't expect the JSR group to give a response in the time
   frame we have

   CM: I don't understand what this is about

   ED: The JSR Group wrote about taking out get and set attribute in
   uDOM
   ... they are not including it JSR 287

   <ed>
   [61]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0055.h
   tml

     [61] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0055.html

   CM: Why?

   ED: Due to complexities

   DS: We should just leave it as is
   ... it's really useful for users

   ED: I'm tempted to say leave it in
   ... is there any reason not to
   ... we added because of CDF
   ... still makes sense in mixed context

   DS: Users are going to expect them to be there

   CM: If you have to support arbitrary attributes on elements you have
   to store them
   ... if you use traits you wouldn't have to store them

   DS: Perhaps we should make them a should

   CM: Why did CDF add them?

   ED: Wanted this to be used in HTML

   CM: So for the non prefixed attribute you don't need to store the
   names
   ... because there can only be one spelling for it
   ... for prefixed things you need to store the prefix

   ED: They are just asking us to consider dropping it

   DS: We don't me make it a should?

   ED: Then you can't depend on it

   DS: If you intend it to work on mobile devices you should use the
   name space versions

   ED: We spoke with CDF to have them in their spec

   AG: Why don't we leave it as is, then we don't have anything to do?

   DS: Because it's going to be non-conforming and they've given a
   valid reason
   ... when doing it in a mixed content environment you should expect
   it to be there

   CM: From a CDF point of view would that be considered it being taken
   out
   ... it is a bit strange to have should things on an interface

   ED: We could get a clarification
   ... address it for Core?
   ... postpone?
   ... I say we close the action

   RESOLUTION: We will close ACTION-2011 and we will leave the set and
   get interface as is

   trackbot, close ACTION-2011

   <trackbot> ACTION-2011 Write JSR 287 EG and ask for clarification
   regarding setAttribute/getAttribute use cases closed

   <ed> [62]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2014

     [62] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2014

ACTION-2014

   ED: This is on Chris

   <heycam>
   [63]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Apr/0069.html

     [63] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Apr/0069.html

   <ed> [64]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#item04

     [64] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#item04

   ED: is any one comfortable on font family selection rules
   ... Old wording wasn't very good

   CM: Interesting the ligature one - D
   ... there are two things
   ... he wants a better fallback algorithm

   ED: He's saying you can get something which the test is not testing

   <ed>
   [65]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/fonts-glyph-04-t.sv
   g

     [65] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/fonts-glyph-04-t.svg

   ED: Is this something we need to change in the spec
   ... or is this a test that needs to be changed

   DS: I'll email Chris asking about this

ACTION-2022

   [66]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2022

     [66] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2022

   CM: Sounds similar to what we discussed about yesterday

   DS: Different question
   ... and should be deferred
   ... change it to SVG Core

ACTION-2023

   [67]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2023

     [67] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2023

   CM: Wait we decided something different yesterday

   DS: So what have we decided on?

   CM: That it is an error

   [68]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/att
   -0082/20080520-svg-minutes.html#item03

     [68] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/att-0082/20080520-svg-minutes.html#item03

   CM: Perhaps the action came out of the same issue we had

   ED: Could have
   ... was this to allow tests to be written for circular reference?

   CM: The spec doesn't say where the unsupported thing happens

   DS: We changed it because opacity is difficult to check how many
   iterations
   ... we changed it so it shifts the shape downwards
   ... the question is what is the visible sign of an error

   ED: Should we revisit the resolution from yesterday?

   DS: What is the difference with treating it as an error or an
   unsupported value?
   ... unsupported value it goes back to the Lacuna value
   ... there is no Lacuna value for xlink:href

   ED: For animation it's the parent element
   ... but would result in odd behavior

   DS: We talked about this yesterday and we went through a change of
   reasoning
   ... that's sounds

   CM: So this action is about changing the spec
   ... if we leave it as is
   ... what about the test

   AG: The test is fine as long as the UA doesn't blow up

   CM: Full 1.1 says render up until the broken thing
   ... what do you do in this case?

   DS: An error is underspecified
   ... maybe we should specify it
   ... we could say for example
   ... in a recursion that the render should stop for that recursion
   and then render
   ... as able

   CM: The first one that you come across in rendering tree order

   DS: Can be quiet complicated
   ... some UAs allow a certain level of circular reference
   ... the only problem with circular references is the risk of
   excessive memory usage
   ... that's why we don't want to allow it

   ED: So yesterday did we have any action on that?

   DS: No
   ... but we should say what an error means

   CM: [Reads out passing condition of test]

   ED: So you'd have one level or recursion

   DS: No not necessarily

   CM: So you don't even rely on one cycle

   DS: [Tests different implementations]
   ... In my point with regards to error handling, in the case of
   recursion the
   ... change should be broken
   ... but we don't say where
   ... perhaps at a UA specific time of detection of the loop

   CM: For the test case say that circles will appear, duplicates will
   not

   DS: We should further say that, UAs must continue to render the
   document as they are able
   ... comes down to a highly perceivable error

   CM: At the moment it doesn't say what to do about the rendering of
   the document when there is an error
   ... we could say use a Lacuna value if there is one
   ... and not render it if there is none

   ED: The Lacuna value may not make sense

   DS: Hang on, what causes errors?

   ED: In Animation chapter
   ... for the begin attribute
   ... there is some wording
   ... saying that if the Begin attribute is in error
   ... it's equivalent to blah
   ... should say SMIL error

   <heycam> see
   [69]http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/REC-SMIL2-20051213/smil-timing.html#Ti
   ming-ErrorHandlingSemantics

     [69] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/REC-SMIL2-20051213/smil-timing.html#Timing-ErrorHandlingSemantics

   RESOLUTION: Circular dependencies are an Error. Error handling needs
   to be better defined

   <shepazu> syntactically invalid

   AG: What about application/java-archive
   ... in scripting
   ... if the EventListenerInitializer2 is not implemented, it is an
   error
   ... should this be a Java error?

   <ed> [70]http://www.explain.com.au/oss/libxml2xslt.html

     [70] http://www.explain.com.au/oss/libxml2xslt.html

   CM: Does it need to be an error?
   ... it doesn't seem to be like a particularly bad thing that needs
   to be an error
   ... I think just say that nothing is run

   ED: Would be nice to show a message about it

   DS: Unsupported will also put something in the console

   CM: If it's not in error where else will we hook in?
   ... we could say that the element is unsupported
   ... if it doesn't pull in script
   ... so the equivalent Java script is it tries to evaluate it
   ... and through an unsupported type exception

   [71]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/script.html

     [71] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/script.html

   ED: Ok to leave it I guess

ACTION-2024

   [72]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2024

     [72] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2024

   DS: Ok
   ... this is an easy one

   [73]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/att
   -0082/20080520-svg-minutes.html#item03

     [73] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/att-0082/20080520-svg-minutes.html#item03

ACTION-2027

   [74]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2027

     [74] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2027

   ED: I guess it is possible to calculate some kind of range

   CM: What does it mean... is the current range wrong?
   ... the current restrictions are make it easy for users typing
   content
   ... the range is such that it's suitable for 16 point 16 numbers
   ... not sure what it'd be changed to in this action
   ... chapter is types
   ... Have we used more than 4 decimal places in tests?

   ED: Don't think it's such a big thing
   ... haven't had anyone complain about the epsilon that we are using

   CM: Dr Olaf's test have some to 8 decimal places

   ED: From what I remember it was about calculating the epsilon for
   the test

   CM: There are 27 tests have a dot followed by 5 digits

   AG: 5 or more

   CM: Yes

   ED: What about scientific notation
   ... I think we should continue?

   DS: We should change the tests at a later point

   CM: So move the action to the test suite

ACTION-2048

   [75]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2048

     [75] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2048

   CM: Change it for text content element and not block elements

   ED: I guess I can do that tomorrow

   AG: We could split it
   ... so that you only do the Tiny 1.2 bit

ACTION-2063

   CM: Got a reply about it
   ... I'll be doing it

ACTION-2072

   ED: Already done the issue
   ... action can be closed

ACTION-2075

   [76]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2075

     [76] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2075

   DS: Problem is a duplicate id
   ... about an id on specific element

   CM: "g" element

   DS: Can't solve it right now
   ... let's leave it open

ACTION-2078

   DS: We'll keep it for now

ACTION-2088

   [77]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2088

     [77] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2088

   ED: We didn't resolve to change the event names
   ... but we did resolve to change the progress events do not bubble
   ... so I think this action is only asking if it's going to be a
   problem
   ... I'd like to see the same events used
   ... I don't want two sets
   ... what we could do is change the progress event to progress
   ... and change preload to loadstart

   DS: So change the ones that are just identical

   ED: Yes

   AE: I haven't done it yet

   DS: We'd like to align where possible

   AE: I agree we should align

   <scribe> ACTION: Emmons to inform JSR/OMA when we go to Last Call
   [recorded in
   [78]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action10]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2158 - Inform JSR/OMA when we go to Last
   Call [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-08-29].

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Do progress event name change to Tiny 1.2
   [recorded in
   [79]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action11]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2159 - Do progress event name change to
   Tiny 1.2 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-08-29].

   trackbot, close ACTION-2088

   <trackbot> ACTION-2088 Contact OMA/JSRs about changing progress
   event names closed

   AE: There is a progress event name that would have to change

ACTION-2107

   CM: Keep that
   ... it's related to script changes

ACTION-2121

   [80]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2121

     [80] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2121

   DS: Should reassign this
   ... it's not urgent

ACTION-2128

   [81]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2128

     [81] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2128

   [82]http://www.w3.org/mid/20071008061239.GG5233@arc.mcc.id.au

     [82] http://www.w3.org/mid/20071008061239.GG5233@arc.mcc.id.au

   DS: For focus out it's clear

   CM: What's the target?

   DS: The target is the thing you're leaving

   CM: You're leaving the target to what?

   DS: We can't know what's going on outside
   ... but we can know what's going on inside

   CM: So some how from reading it sounded like

   DS: It is just the document and not the device focus

   AG: Does anything need to be changed atm?

   CM: That section seems a bit unclear

ACTION-2129

   [83]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2129

     [83] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2129

   DS: Sounds like something we've addressed at some point
   ... I'd say move it to Core

ACTION-2130

   [84]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2130

     [84] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2130

   ED: It's just an example

   <heycam> trackbot, close ACTION-2130

   <trackbot> ACTION-2130 Add an example to the spec that clarifies
   what the section on access trait means (relating to erik's 'type'
   TraitAccess mail too) closed

   <heycam> ACTION-2130: Closed but not actually done! Score!

   <trackbot> ACTION-2130 Add an example to the spec that clarifies
   what the section on access trait means (relating to erik's 'type'
   TraitAccess mail too) notes added

ACTION-2131

   [85]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2131

     [85] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2131

   CM: Shifted to Core

ACTION-2132

   [86]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2132

     [86] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2132

   DS: [summaries action]
   ... We could say should give a highly perceivable indication that a
   link is in scope
   ... such as displaying the URL to the location of the link
   ... and changing the cursor or the focus indicator

ACTION-2133

   [87]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2133

     [87] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2133

   DS: [summaries action]
   ... I'll email out

ACTION-2134

   [88]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2134

     [88] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2134

   ED: This is not Tiny 1.2

   DS: Move to Full 1.1

ACTION-2135

   [89]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2135

     [89] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2135

   DS: [summaries action]

   ED: This is something we could do for Core

   DS: Would be a good reform
   ... is something more involved

ACTION-2137

   [90]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2137

     [90] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2137

   CM: The section doesn't have any references
   ... but you could link to sections that talk about paced animation

   ED: You'd have to read the calc mode stuff
   ... and that's linked to SMIL
   ... to paced animation is linked to calc mode
   ... I think the links are there

   CM: It's more about making the animation chapter clearer

ACTION-2138

   [91]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2138

     [91] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2138

   [92]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/18-svg-minutes.html#item04

     [92] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/18-svg-minutes.html#item04

   DS: Keep it open
   ... further discussion required

ACTION-2139

   [93]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2139

     [93] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2139

   CM: I've done the first part of this action
   ... that does the master2publish
   ... in one central script

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to create a script that generates a single
   page of the spec [recorded in
   [94]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action12]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2160 - Create a script that generates a
   single page of the spec [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-08-29].

   <scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Implement a create index script that
   works for all modules [recorded in
   [95]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action13]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2161 - Implement a create index script
   that works for all modules [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-08-29].

   <heycam> ACTION: Cameron to make the publication script work for
   modules, too [recorded in
   [96]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action14]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2162 - Make the publication script work
   for modules, too [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-08-29].

ACTION-2140

   [97]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2140

     [97] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2140

   ED: About having different colours for elements and attributes
   ... it's not very hard
   ... would be useful
   ... Not very important to have it done

   AG: Put it to Core?

   ED: I guess we could
   ... not essential
   ... for publishing

   <ed> ...moved ACTION-2141 to svg core too

   ED: Moved 2140 to core

ACTION-2144

   [98]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2144

     [98] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2144

   CM: all good, going to keep that

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Anthony to Implement a create index script that works
   for all modules [recorded in
   [99]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action13]
   [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to create a script that generates a single
   page of the spec [recorded in
   [100]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action12]
   [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to do all of the actions discussed above
   [recorded in
   [101]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action09]
   [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to fix transition from DOM 3 Events to DOM 2
   Events and uDOM, and to fix testsuite [recorded in
   [102]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to make the publication script work for
   modules, too [recorded in
   [103]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action14]
   [NEW] ACTION: DS to add the keyboard events from DOM 3 Events to an
   SVGT12 appendix [recorded in
   [104]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action07]
   [NEW] ACTION: Emmons to inform JSR/OMA when we go to Last Call
   [recorded in
   [105]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action10]
   [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Do progress event name change to Tiny 1.2
   [recorded in
   [106]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action11]
   [NEW] ACTION: fattony to split unresolved points of ISSUE-268 /
   ISSUE-2032 into individual issues for Core [recorded in
   [107]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: heycam to add "list of coordinate" and "list of
   number" to the paced animation table, with the same distance formula
   as "list of length" [recorded in
   [108]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: heycam to change "coordinate+" to "list of
   coordinate", and "number+" to "list of number" for consistency
   [recorded in
   [109]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: heycam to change paced animation of scale to use
   Euclidian distance formulae [recorded in
   [110]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: heycam to fix the notation of value types for paced
   animation [recorded in
   [111]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: heycam to stop adding seconds to minced meat [recorded
   in [112]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [113]scribe.perl version 1.133
    ([114]CVS log)
    $Date: 2008/08/22 18:01:06 $
     _________________________________________________________

    [113] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
    [114] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

   [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51
Check for newer version at [115]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/200
2/scribe/

    [115] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/add change/add/
Succeeded: s/will/will mark/
Succeeded: s/in/it/
Succeeded: s/sens/sense/
Succeeded: s/to an/to be an/
Succeeded: s/error/exception/
Succeeded: s/on/one/
Succeeded: s/inside/outside/
Found ScribeNick: shepazu
Found Scribe: Erik
Found ScribeNick: ed
Found Scribe: erik
Found ScribeNick: ed
Found Scribe: anthony
Inferring ScribeNick: anthony
Found ScribeNick: anthony
Scribes: Erik, anthony
ScribeNicks: shepazu, ed, anthony
Present: Doug Cameron Anthony Erik
Found Date: 22 Aug 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [116]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.htm
l
People with action items: anthony cameron ds emmons erik fattony heycam

    [116] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-svg-minutes.html

   End of [117]scribe.perl diagnostic output]

    [117] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

-- 
Cameron McCormack ≝ http://mcc.id.au/
Received on Friday, 22 August 2008 18:03:09 UTC

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