- From: Cameron McCormack <cam@mcc.id.au>
- Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:07:19 +1000
- To: "public-svg-wg@w3.org" <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html
or below as text:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
26 Jun 2008
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0162.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
Regrets
Andrew_Emmons, Chris_Lilley
Chair
Erik
Scribe
Cameron
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]SVG animate values format
2. [6]SVG Tiny Schema
3. [7]Resolving IRIs for resource documents in SVG Tiny 1.2
4. [8]percentages in clipPath/pattern/filter/mask content
5. [9]Tiny 1.2 and Key Identifiers
6. [10]Test suite
7. [11]SVGt 1.2 Tests: Illegal separator in linking-frag-201
and 202
8. [12]XHTML Access module review
* [13]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 26 June 2008
<scribe> Scribe: Cameron
<scribe> ScribeNick: heycam
<ed>
[14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0051.html
[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0051.html
SVG animate values format
ED: This is about trailing semicolons in the values="" attribute
... and whether you get an additional value if it ends with a ';'
CM: I agree with Julien's assessment that his example should be
invalid
DS: Could there be a recovery behaviour here?
<anthony>
[15]http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/REC-SMIL2-20051213/animation.html#adef
-values
[15] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/REC-SMIL2-20051213/animation.html#adef-values
CM: The grammar is defined by SMIL
<ed>
[16]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/animate.html#ValuesAttribute
[16] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/animate.html#ValuesAttribute
CM: is it by reference?
AG: yes
ED: we could override the definition in SVG
CM: I wonder if there's content out there that uses this semicolon
at the end of the list.
<ed>
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0020.html
[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0020.html
ED: in that mail, andrew points out that the ikivo animator produces
content with the semicolon
... and both ikivo and bitflash accept it
AG: what does opera do?
ED: not sure
[18]http://mcc.id.au/temp/semicolon.svg
[18] http://mcc.id.au/temp/semicolon.svg
CM: Batik does accept the semicolon
(discussion about empty string values, like for animating URLs)
CM: you can validly have <a xlink:href=""/>
DS: if we had an image, and we're animating the xlink:href and the
last value was the empty string, that would mean that the last value
is that the image goes blank
CM: yeah
DS: i'm curious where else SMIL is being used
CM: maybe we can just force the use of '#' for same document
references in values=""
... but we should test if empty strings work currently in UAs
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to test empty string values in animations
[recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2074 - Test empty string values in
animations [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-07-03].
ISSUE: Behaviour of animating values="a; b; c;" in existing UAs is
at odds with the spec
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2010 - Behaviour of animating values=\"a;
b; c;\" in existing UAs is at odds with the spec ; please complete
additional details at
[20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2010/edit .
[20] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2010/edit
<ed>
[21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0002.html
[21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0002.html
SVG Tiny Schema
DS: Chris looked at it a little, and thought maybe it was id vs
xml:id
... but Chris says somewhere we introduced id in two different
places
... I'm going to be talking next month (maybe before) to the Relax
guys, I can ask them about this.
ISSUE: SVG Tiny schema is broken
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2011 - SVG Tiny schema is broken ; please
complete additional details at
[22]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2011/edit .
[22] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2011/edit
<shepazu> [23]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2009
[23] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2009
trackbot, close ISSUE-2011
<trackbot> Sorry, heycam, I don't understand 'trackbot, close
ISSUE-2011'. Please refer to
[24]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
[24] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to figure out why the SVG Tiny schema is
broken (ISSUE-2009) [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2075 - Figure out why the SVG Tiny schema
is broken (ISSUE-2009) [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-07-03].
ED: reply to felix?
DS: i'll investigate it, see if we can fix it, then reply to felix
Resolving IRIs for resource documents in SVG Tiny 1.2
<ed>
[26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0033.html
[26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0033.html
CM: last time we said push it off until we hear from andrew, since
bitflash does the double network access already
ED: we don't want to delay spec edits
... maybe we can contact someone else at bitflash
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to mail some BitFlash guys about ISSUE-2003
[recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2076 - Mail some BitFlash guys about
ISSUE-2003 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-07-03].
percentages in clipPath/pattern/filter/mask content
<ed>
[28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0048.html
[28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0048.html
ED: it might be confusing to some people that percentages are
relative to the viewport, and not the bbox of the element it's used
on
... otoh, if you use values like 0.1, then you get 10% of the object
bbox
CM: is it deliberate so that you can use viewport-relative and
bbox-relative values in there?
ED: don't know if it's deliberate, but it is confusing
CM: i imagine there might be content out there that uses it
ED: it would be nice to have a test to see if an implementation uses
percentages as bbox-relative
... not difficult to change it, but wondering if content relies on
it
... first step would be to try implementations
... don't know if it's useful to have the functionality of being
able to have a percentage of the viewport
... and at the same time using objectBoundingBox coordinates
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to test implementations for percentage values
in clipPath, etc. [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2077 - Test implementations for percentage
values in clipPath, etc. [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-07-03].
ISSUE: Percentages in clipPath/pattern/filter/mask unintuitive
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2013 - Percentages in
clipPath/pattern/filter/mask unintuitive ; please complete
additional details at
[30]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2013/edit .
[30] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2013/edit
<ed>
[31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0019.html
[31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0019.html
Tiny 1.2 and Key Identifiers
ED: Is there a way of telling where a keyboard event comes from in
the uDOM? I don't think so.
... There's no keyLocation in the tiny KeyboardEvent.
<ed>
[32]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/spec/mobile/1.2/
1.2NG/publish/svgudom.html#events__KeyboardEvent
[32] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/spec/mobile/1.2/1.2NG/publish/svgudom.html#events__KeyboardEvent
CM: is keyLocation safe in the current DOM3Key spec?
DS: yes
ED: we could add it
DS: it is a subset intended for mobiles, where you only have one
keypad
ED: otoh that content might be viewed on different devices
DS: if the content is constrained to the device (if it doesn't
assume it can get the different locations) then it doesn't matter
... for uDOM in general, it would be better if we were to add it
... that would change the java bindings
ED: i'd be tempted not to change it in tiny, and in full say that
the full DOM3Key interface is required
DS: does that resolve the entire issue?
ED: not really, but part of it
... you'd be saying there's no way to find out where the is coming
from, and that you have to rely on DOM 3 Events before being able to
decide that
... you could always test if keyLocation is there, and use it if it
is
... the modifier keys are missing as well, same thing
... is there any difference in lowercase a and uppercase a? is it
the same key identifier?
CM: you'd always get U+0041 i think
... and there's still textEvent yes?
ED: yes
... so you can get the actual typed in string with that
AG: in full we can say to support full DOM3Key
CM: do mobile devices that the udom is targetted to have shift/ctrl
keys anyway?
ED: some devices do have shift-like keys
DS: there's IME
ED: mine does have a full(ish) keyboard, with a shift key
... and you can type upper and lowercase letters
<ed>
[33]http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Events/events.html#Events-Keybo
ardEvent
[33] http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Events/events.html#Events-KeyboardEvent
AG: issue freeze?
CM: you can probably keep a track of shift key state in script if
you really needed to
RESOLUTION: We won't add keyLocation and modifier key attributes to
the uDOM KeyboardEvent, but we will require the full DOM3Key
interface in 1.2 Full
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to reply to Julien to say that we won't add
keyLocation etc. to KeyboardEvent in the uDOM [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2078 - Reply to Julien to say that we
won't add keyLocation etc. to KeyboardEvent in the uDOM [on Doug
Schepers - due 2008-07-03].
Test suite
ED: Has publication happened yet?
DS: no
ED: soon?
DS: yes
ED: we should track test case issues
DS: why not in tracker?
CM: there is a product in there for the test suite
<ed>
[35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0023.html
[35] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0023.html
SVGt 1.2 Tests: Illegal separator in linking-frag-201 and 202
ED: This is using spaces in a URI, and the spec requires using
commas without spaces
CM: so escaped spaces (%20) aren't allowed
DS: we could say that the fragment is URL encoded
... if i have a space in my URL now, in a browser, it uses a %20
... we could say if a space is part of a functional fragment then
it's escaped
CM: i don't know the intricacies of urls/uris/iris/leiris enough to
know
... maybe we can fix the test case to use commas, and raise an issue
for the general problem of spaces in there
ED: i agree with kalle's comments on the test description
DS: yes
ED: so that should be changed
<scribe> ACTION: Anthony to fix linking-frag-20[$1\47] and reply to
Kalle [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2079 - Fix linking-frag-20[$1\47] and
reply to Kalle [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-07-03].
<ed>
[37]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/spec/mobile/1.2/
1.2NG/publish/linking.html#IntroFragmentsViews
[37] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/spec/mobile/1.2/1.2NG/publish/linking.html#IntroFragmentsViews
ISSUE: The restriction on IRI fragments in view specs to disallow
spaces may be overly restrictive
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2014 - The restriction on IRI fragments in
view specs to disallow spaces may be overly restrictive ; please
complete additional details at
[38]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2014/edit .
[38] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2014/edit
<ed>
[39]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/014
7.html
[39] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0147.html
XHTML Access module review
<shepazu>
[40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/016
1.html
[40] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0161.html
DS: shouldn't take more than half an hour to read through
ED: what is it for?
DS: the idea is that there is an <access> element with a key=""
attribute that is a character
CM: this is for keyboard shortcuts?
DS: yes
... right now we have the accesskey="" we got from SMIL, but that is
known to be a problem
... you map the values of the <access> element to things in the DOM
with targetid=""
... or you can use targetrole="", which will make the access key go
to the element with that role
... you can have lists in these attributes, which will cause cycling
through when you press the access key multiple times
... if you say activate="yes", then if the user presses the key, it
will shift the focus to that element and activate it (e.g. if it's a
link it will follow it)
... it'd be a good part of the role stuff we'll have in svg
... what if you wanted to describe a sequence of things that weren't
in document order? e.g. when you hit F it goes to the first node,
then hitting F goes to the second node, which may or may not be in
document order
ED: seems strange to be document order, and not order in the
attribute
... has to be one key, not several keys? e.g. if you are used to
emacs shortcuts you can't add those in addition to your regular
keys?
... or modifier keys
DS: you could have both P and Q mapped to the same element with
multiple <access> elements
ED: can't do multi-key-sequences either, e.g. M followed be E
DS: an interesting example, not sure if it's a powerful use case
ED: encourage you all to send comments
DS: due date is already past, but someone asked for an extension so
if we do them by next week it would be great
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Anthony to fix linking-frag-20[$1\47] and reply to
Kalle [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to mail some BitFlash guys about ISSUE-2003
[recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to test empty string values in animations
[recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Doug to figure out why the SVG Tiny schema is broken
(ISSUE-2009) [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Doug to reply to Julien to say that we won't add
keyLocation etc. to KeyboardEvent in the uDOM [recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to test implementations for percentage values in
clipPath, etc. [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
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_________________________________________________________
[47] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
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[49] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
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Possibly Present: AG CM DS Doug_Schepers IPcaller ISSUE P4 P5 ScribeNic
k anthony ed ed_ heycam joined shepazu svg trackbot
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
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<dbooth> Present+ amy
Regrets: Andrew_Emmons Chris_Lilley
Agenda: [50]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJu
n/0162.html
Found Date: 26 Jun 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [51]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: anthony cameron doug erik
[50] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0162.html
[51] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html
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--
Cameron McCormack ≝ http://mcc.id.au/
Received on Thursday, 26 June 2008 12:08:02 UTC