Re: Definition of Collection and LDP Paging - was: definition of as:Collection and as:items very confused

> On 24 Apr 2015, at 18:34, James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Please keep in mind that AS2 is not RDF.

Come on, the examples contain Turtle, RDFa and Json-LD and it has 
an ontology at the bottom. 

It is meant to be viewable as a JSON syntax and be RDF. 

> Nor is RDF required (or even assumed) in any way for processing AS2 documents.

Yes what you want to do is be able to create a crystalisation of AS2 ontology that
does not require knowledge of RDF. I defined a crytalisation here in 2006

  https://blogs.oracle.com/bblfish/entry/crystalizing_rdf

There were formats like RSS1.1 that did that too 10 years ago and 
were also RDF. The art of doing this is to be able to get both to
work. A lot of people here are following because of this.

( I tend to think the exercise is not worth the candle. It leads to 
bad modelling and since there is no format that rules them all 
decisions based on formats will seem good in one of them and ugly
in all the others. In the end nobody cares, because the end 
user will use interface that are produced from the data. 
And the users of JSON only are those that have not understood the importance
of getting out of silos. )

> The non-normative turtle in the appendix is provided as an informational
> reference.

informational for people who don't read RDF, but for the rest it should
be I hope correct, and also useful for creating test suites.

> AS2 is intended to be processed by implementations that have absolutely
> zero understanding of the RDF model at all. In such cases, spelling
> out the processing a bit more makes perfect sense.

Yes, for those who don't have RDF tools one will need to spell out the process.
But it would be good if you only needed to spell out the process for
them and that it works out of the box for people using RDF.

The aim should be something that is RDF, but that can work 
reasonably well for those that don't know about those tools.

> If it would reduce the confusion, I can simply remove the
> non-normative turtle from the vocabulary document.

This part of the argument does not rely on the error I found in the appended ontology.

My argument here is that there is a better way to model the paging, which does
not force the paging into the model. I pointed to the LDP Paging specification
as a way that has gathered quite some support and into which a lot of effort went.

I think at this point we need to step back a bit and ask ourselves why this paging
model in AS2.0 is needed, and what would be better. Later we can then see how to make 
a nice JSON syntax that people can use without knowing about RDF, and in which we can
explain what they need to do because they don't have RDF tools. Perhaps that will
end up spurring them to use the RDF libraries then to save them some work.

Henry


Social Web Architect
http://bblfish.net/

Received on Friday, 24 April 2015 17:54:06 UTC