RE: [Bug 4811] Clarify section 6.1 regarding Schematron phases

Sorry, I wasn't using the correct language. Meant to say "for a conforming 
validator (not running in #ALL mode) to claim that a model is *valid*, 
when ..."

One can certainly argue that this "valid" (reported by conforming non-#ALL 
modes) is not that "valid" (reported by conforming #ALL mode). But this is 
an invitation for confusion.

I do realize that no user may ever trip over this, so I can live with 
making the change.

Thanks,
Sandy Gao
XML Technologies, IBM Canada
Editor, W3C XML Schema WG
Member, W3C SML WG
(1-905) 413-3255 T/L 313-3255
 



Kumar Pandit <kumarp@windows.microsoft.com> 
Sent by: public-sml-request@w3.org
2007-11-06 12:09 AM

To
Sandy Gao/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, "public-sml@w3.org" <public-sml@w3.org>
cc
Kumar Pandit <kumarp@windows.microsoft.com>
Subject
RE: [Bug 4811] Clarify section 6.1 regarding Schematron phases






Hi Sandy,
Here is some clarification on the issue you pointed out.
 
> It's not addressed. There is still the possibility for a conforming 
validator (not running in #ALL mode) > to claim that a model is 
conformant, when the spec clearly say it's not. 

The proposal text explicitly differentiates between a conformant model and 
a valid model. Thus a validator evaluating schematron rules in a phase 
other than #ALL can declare a model to conformant but it cannot declare it 
valid.
 
Does this explanation address the concern?
 
 
From: Sandy Gao [mailto:sandygao@ca.ibm.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 8:09 AM
To: Kumar Pandit
Cc: public-sml@w3.org
Subject: RE: [Bug 4811] Clarify section 6.1 regarding Schematron phases
 

> Sandy,
> You expressed some concerns about this change. 
> Can you please take a look and see if your concerns 
> are addressed or still present? In either case, please 
> respond so that the editors can proceed. 

It's not addressed. There is still the possibility for a conforming 
validator (not running in #ALL mode) to claim that a model is conformant, 
when the spec clearly say it's not. 

This is different from other places where different processors may differ 
(e.g. reference schemes), because in those cases the spec doesn't not 
specify a particular outcome.

But in reality, no one will be confused and this will not change anything. 


So 
- I'm in favor of the change to have separate lists for conforming and 
valid models 
- I prefer *not* to change #3 for validator conformance rules 
- But I can live with the proposed changes, if everyone else feels it's an 
improvement.

Thanks,
Sandy Gao
XML Technologies, IBM Canada
Editor, W3C XML Schema WG
Member, W3C SML WG
(1-905) 413-3255 T/L 313-3255



Kumar Pandit <kumarp@windows.microsoft.com> 
Sent by: public-sml-request@w3.org 
2007-11-01 04:38 PM 


To
"public-sml@w3.org" <public-sml@w3.org> 
cc
Kumar Pandit <kumarp@windows.microsoft.com> 
Subject
RE: [Bug 4811] Clarify section 6.1 regarding Schematron phases
 









I have added proposal for new text as we discussed in today's call. Please 
take a look and add your comments to the bug or reply to this email if you 
disagree. Silence == you agree.

Sandy,
You expressed some concerns about this change. Can you please take a look 
and see if your concerns are addressed or still present? In either case, 
please respond so that the editors can proceed.


------- Comment #6 From Kumar Pandit 2007-11-01 20:33:24 [reply] -------
Here is the proposed new text:
==============================


7. Conformance Criteria
A program is a conforming SML model validator if it satisfies the 
following
conditions:
1.      The validator MUST perform model validation as defined in this
specification. Model validation is the process of examining each document 
in a
model and verifying that this document is valid with respect to the model
definition documents, i.e., each model instance document satisfies the 
schemas
and rules defined in the applicable model definition documents.
2.      The validator MUST support XML, XML Schema and XPath but MAY also
support any future versions of these specifications.
3.      The validator MUST support schematron [ISO/IEC 19757-3].

A set of XML documents is a conforming SML model if it satisfies the 
following
conditions:
1.      Each document in the model MUST be a well-formed XML document 
[XML]
2.      Each XML Schema document in the model's definition documents MUST
satisfy the conditions expressed in Errors in Schema Construction and 
Structure
(§5.1). [XML Schema Structures]
3.      Each Schematron document in the model's definition documents MUST 
be a
valid Schematron document [ISO/IEC 19757-3]

A conforming SML model is valid if it satisfies all of the following
conditions:
1.      In each instance document in the model, the [validity] property of 
the
root element and all of its attributes and descendants MUST NOT be 
"invalid"
when schema validity is assessed by a conforming schema-aware processor 
with
respect to the referenced XML Schema documents in the model's definition
documents. [XML Schema Structures]
2.      Each document in the model MUST satisfy all applicable Schematron
constraints when validated in the #ALL phase.
3.      Each document in the model MUST satisfy all applicable sml:acyclic 
and
sml:target* constraints.
4.      Each document in the model MUST satisfy all applicable SML 
identity
constraints.

-----Original Message-----
From: public-sml-request@w3.org [mailto:public-sml-request@w3.org] On 
Behalf Of bugzilla@wiggum.w3.org
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 1:02 PM
To: public-sml@w3.org
Subject: [Bug 4811] Clarify section 6.1 regarding Schematron phases


http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4811





------- Comment #5 from virginia.smith@hp.com  2007-11-01 20:02 -------
Initial proposal during Thurs meeting:
#3 should be rephrased to support just Schematron (remove reference to 
#ALL)

Split 2nd section into 2 parts:
part 1 - "conforming model" with #1-3
part 2 - "valid model" with #4-7, reword #5 as proposed.

Sandy has concerns with this which he will email.