Minutes from 5 November

Minutes from the Silver Task Force and Community Group teleconference of
Friday 5 November are provided here.

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SUMMARY:
*            Shawn reviewed the challenges identified by our recent blameless postmortem conversation,
              noting some were simple failure to follow defined process, but others
not so. We will engage AGWG in the resolution discussion so that we can all
get in sync.
*            Reports from content groups as available on the call.
===========================================================

Hypertext minutes available at:
https://www.w3.org/2021/11/05-silver-minutes.html

===========================================================
   W3C

                                                                                                            - DRAFT -
                                                                                               Silver Task Force & Community Group

05 November 2021

   IRC log.

Attendees

   Present
          jeanne, JF, kirkwood, Lauriat, Rachael, sajkaj, shadi, SuzanneTaylor, ToddLibby, Wilco

   Regrets
          -

   Chair
          -

   Scribe
          Rachael, sajkaj

Contents

    1. Clock change reminder
    2. Blameless post-mortem summary and next steps
    3. Clock change reminder
    4. Sub-group updates

Meeting minutes

   <Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Scribe_List

  Clock change reminder

   <SuzanneTaylor> A11y for Children TPAC video recording: https://watch.videodelivery.net/9d00b8b82e792fdc479d0f138c31e589 All TPAC breakout recordings: https://www.w3.org/2021/10/TPAC/breakouts.html

  Blameless post-mortem summary and next steps

   sl: Reminder--We'll be to usual offsets next week for most people as North America goes back to standard time

   sl: RReview of discussion ...

   <Lauriat> 1. When participation lowers, it can reduce diversity of perspectives & voices, and the number of people aware of the details of the work

   sl: notes there's a mix of process goofs, and also other issues

   <Lauriat> 2. One person, unfamiliar with the details, can enter a group and shift direction unexpectedly

   <Lauriat> 3. A few prominent voices can end up represented above other perspectives present

   <Lauriat> 4. Work should not have gone to a second attempt-at-consensus

   <Lauriat> 5. The inconsistent results of those attempts shows a lack of certainty in that consensus

   <Lauriat> 6. Surveys prompt a closer look from the larger group who haven't looked at it before; shows potential gaps in keeping the group in the loop and our overall process of review may have missing steps

   <Lauriat> 7. Chairs mishandled results of mistake in bringing to second vote

   <Lauriat> 8. The groups do not view themselves as a cohesive unit. AGWG's role as the approving body causes friction with Silver, particularly when work does not move forward. Silver members see themselves as workers
   without a representative voice in the approval process. This results in frustration which leads to Silver members leaving.

   Lauriat: Noting again some are straight forward fixes--follow process

   Lauriat: Others not so straight forward

   Lauriat: Suggesting discussion on how to resolve; also noting the issue has been seen more than once

   Lauriat: Also that our resolutions need to engage the parent AGWG, not just Silver

   Lauriat: Suggests importance of keeping discussion blameless

   Rachael: Agreeing with importance of AGWG wider involvement in resolutions

  Clock change reminder

  Sub-group updates

   <Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Main_Page#Sub_Groups

   Wilco: Reliability SG temporarily halted on programmatic lang

   Wilco: working on a process doc on how to write reliable outcomes for WCAG3

   Wilco: hoping to have something here in a few weeks

   Wilco: Aim is a step by step guide

   sajkaj: Stepped back yesterday.
   ... noting that as we dive into use cases and look at what we've presented, things like user generated have internal ways they can maybe fit into different buckets.
   ... working towards a more useful taxonomy. Many third party situations to cover.
   ... talked about those. User generated is coming in the next working draft. Even user generated depends. A massive video provider is different than an individual.
   ... looser requirements for individuals than a major provider. Wrestling with coming an understanding in hopes that it can demonstrate that it is reasonable expectations vs. exemptions

   <shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Conformance_Glossary_Candidates

   sajkaj: making it clearer who is functioning as publisher vs author.
   ... hoping to help platforms that offer environments put requirements on users.
   ... difference between conforming to technical standard vs. complying with policy/law.

   <JF> +1 to conformance versus compliance

   sajkaj: compliance vs. conformance
   ... we will have less to say about compliance than conformance.
   ... how much is enough and how much is too much. At some point conformance hands off ot compliance by the government.

   <Lauriat> +1

   sajkaj: feedback is helpful.
   ... effort in wider web accessibility initiative. Referenced above by Shadi
   ... wider project than AGWG and Silver. Useful to use the same terms within WAI or W3C.
   ... aim for harmonization across WAI and W3C

   <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to react to Wilco

   shadi: Noting intent not to change direction in what I raised, but trying to reframe some existing discussion in hope that fresh perspective might assist progress

   <Rachael> Is this it? https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Conformance_Short_Summary_Strawdog

   <Rachael> Janina: Gregg also sent out a conformance summary (See above)

   sajkaj: Notes new GV docjf: re protocols

   <Zakim> JF, you wanted to discuss Protocols Sub Team

   jf: did convene again this morning ...

   jf: struggling to come up with a definition for "protocol" and how it might integrate into the larger effort

   jf: Key distinction agreed we will measure the measure evidence not outcomes

   jf: that seemed a useful decision today

   jf: notes many mentions of iso9001 which is a process definition

   jf: so not quite ready to present, but making progress

   Lauriat: Any other updates?
   ... We may have reached the end of the list

   Jeanne: Could Michael give an update on functional needs?
   ... and I can give a Mobile udpate.

   MichaelC: The main focus right now is taking Jake's proposal and fill in the details.
   ... We have a structure but want to see how well it works. We have a working session scheduled Monday. Not sure if we will complete then but that's our next step. That will lead to gap analysis with the guidelines.

   Lauriat: Sounds good.

   Jeanne: I met yesterday with the mobile accessibility taskforce. They have a few members who are working to start taking the SC in WCAG 2.1 that originated from the mobile accessibilty taskforce and use the templates
   to migrate them to WCAG 3. Yesterday I did a detailed walkthrough of the new methods template - work done by reliability template. This work was done by the reliability subgroup to make the testing and template more

   consistent/reliable.
   ... they have 2 guidelines they are working on that they've gone through the process of identifying the user needs and functional needs and are starting methods.
   ... Summary is that we have groups actively working and moving forward. Most are in conformance area. Most of our content groups are on hiatus while conformance is being worked out.
   ... Work is continuing.

   Lauriat: Anyone else here who I missed?
   ... if not, 25 minutes back
   ... Thank you all. Have a great weekend.


    Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).

Diagnostics

   Succeeded: s/shadi/sl/

   Maybe present: MichaelC, sl



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Janina Sajka
Accessibility Standards Consultant
sajkaj@amazon.com<mailto:sajkaj@amazon.com>