RE: Propose an HL7 work group on RDF for Semantic Interoperability?

Yes, we screened this CPR and other existing ontology in medical field 
some months ago. There are couple of valuable effort and this is the 
reason why -am convinced, the best we can do is not to develop another 
ontology, but to re-use existing ones. Of course we need a deep 
discussions to have a useful one. Obviously *no* single ontology can cover 
the *whole* medical domain, and that's why  maybe the best is to make a 
kind of scalable ontology schema.
It's a pity we can't attend the discussions of tomorrow 11am as the time 
here in Europe will be out-of-office period but we will try to catch up 
and follow this discussions, and will contribute as we can.

Kind Regards,

Marc Twagirumukiza | Agfa HealthCare
Senior Clinical Researcher | HE/Advanced Clinical Applications Research
T  +32 3444 8188 | M  +32 499 713 300

http://www.agfahealthcare.com

http://blog.agfahealthcare.com
Click on link to read important disclaimer: 
http://www.agfahealthcare.com/maildisclaimer 



From:   Anthony Mallia <amallia@edmondsci.com>
To:     Marc Twagirumukiza/AXPZC/AGFA@AGFA
Cc:     "cnanjo@cognitivemedicine.com" <cnanjo@cognitivemedicine.com>, 
"david@dbooth.org" <david@dbooth.org>, "eric@w3.org" <eric@w3.org>, 
"michel.dumontier@gmail.com" <michel.dumontier@gmail.com>, 
"Peter.Hendler@kp.org" <Peter.Hendler@kp.org>, 
"public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org" <public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org>, 
"Rafael.Richards@va.gov" <Rafael.Richards@va.gov>
Date:   19/05/2014 16:59
Subject:        RE: Propose an HL7 work group on RDF for Semantic 
Interoperability?



Marc,
If there is something good out there it can be the start. 
Does anyone know about 
http://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/POMROntology#A_Problem-Oriented_Medical_Record_Ontology 
? it seems to be aligned to the need.
 
Tony
 
 
From: Marc Twagirumukiza [mailto:marc.twagirumukiza@agfa.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:29 AM
To: Anthony Mallia
Cc: cnanjo@cognitivemedicine.com; david@dbooth.org; eric@w3.org; 
michel.dumontier@gmail.com; Peter.Hendler@kp.org; 
public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org; Rafael.Richards@va.gov
Subject: RE: Propose an HL7 work group on RDF for Semantic 
Interoperability?
 
Dear Anthony 
Thanks a lot for this feedback. 
We have been interested to join this effort of drafting FHIR ontology but 
we missed probably the momentum. 
One of the ideas we had for this effort was to suggest re-use existing 
ontology and not recreate a specific ontology. 
Some good candidate are like the ScheMed (
https://github.com/twamarc/ScheMed) ontology we were working on in 
collaboration with schema.org (http://schema.org & http://blog.schema.org 
&  http://schema.org/MedicalEntity) . 
Hope we will have opportunity and space to discuss this in a specific 
working group. 


Kind Regards,

Marc Twagirumukiza, MD, PhD | Agfa HealthCare
Senior Clinical Researcher | HE/Advanced Clinical Applications Research
T  +32 3444 8188 | M  +32 499 713 300

http://www.agfahealthcare.com

http://blog.agfahealthcare.com


Click on link to read important disclaimer: 
http://www.agfahealthcare.com/maildisclaimer 



From:        Anthony Mallia <amallia@edmondsci.com> 
To:        Marc Twagirumukiza/AXPZC/AGFA@AGFA 
Cc:        "cnanjo@cognitivemedicine.com" <cnanjo@cognitivemedicine.com>, 
"david@dbooth.org" <david@dbooth.org>, "eric@w3.org" <eric@w3.org>, "
michel.dumontier@gmail.com" <michel.dumontier@gmail.com>, "
Peter.Hendler@kp.org" <Peter.Hendler@kp.org>, "
public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org" <public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org>, "
Rafael.Richards@va.gov" <Rafael.Richards@va.gov> 
Date:        16/05/2014 16:09 
Subject:        RE: Propose an HL7 work group on RDF for Semantic 
Interoperability? 




Marc, 
There is not a location so far for posting any material – it is at an 
early stage. 
  
Tony Mallia 
  
From: Marc Twagirumukiza [mailto:marc.twagirumukiza@agfa.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 4:17 AM
To: Anthony Mallia
Cc: cnanjo@cognitivemedicine.com; david@dbooth.org; eric@w3.org; 
michel.dumontier@gmail.com; Peter.Hendler@kp.org; 
public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org; Rafael.Richards@va.gov
Subject: RE: Propose an HL7 work group on RDF for Semantic 
Interoperability? 
  
Dear Anthony, 
Do you know where we can find documentation/resources about the ongoing 
work  FHIR ontology ? 

Kind Regards,

Marc Twagirumukiza, MD,PhD | Agfa HealthCare
Senior Clinical Researcher | HE/Advanced Clinical Applications Research
T  +32 3444 8188 | M  +32 499 713 300

http://www.agfahealthcare.com

http://blog.agfahealthcare.com 
 


Click on link to read important disclaimer: 
http://www.agfahealthcare.com/maildisclaimer 



From:        Anthony Mallia <amallia@edmondsci.com> 
To:        "Peter.Hendler@kp.org" <Peter.Hendler@kp.org>, "
michel.dumontier@gmail.com" <michel.dumontier@gmail.com> 
Cc:        "david@dbooth.org" <david@dbooth.org>, "eric@w3.org" <
eric@w3.org>, "cnanjo@cognitivemedicine.com" <cnanjo@cognitivemedicine.com
>, "Rafael.Richards@va.gov" <Rafael.Richards@va.gov>, "
public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org" <public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org> 
Date:        15/05/2014 22:50 
Subject:        RE: Propose an HL7 work group on RDF for Semantic 
Interoperability? 
 





Peter, 
Good to see you at the HL7 meeting. 
There seem to be three approaches being worked in RDF 
 
1.       The first is expressing the FHIR payload in RDF. The ontology is 
therefore the FHIR ontology.. The discussion at HL7 was about making 
another representation of the payload in RDF. 
 
2.       The second (which I have been working on) has a small sample in 
Protégé is to look at the ontologies of FHIR and Terminologies – 
particularly SNOMED CT and express them together in the same language – 
OWL so that the conflicts can be resolved. The binding from objects in 
FHIR to terms is fundamentally different from the FHIR payload and 
therefore more disruptive. In this approach, a higher ontology is critical 
– the RIM was a start but has quite a lot missing to form a good higher 
ontology and has nothing to do with healthcare (The RIM did not either). 
It looks as if you are going in this direction as well. 
 
3.       The third which comes from the terminology side is to express 
post-coordinated terms as a code OWL expression in a FHIR message. This is 
a small scope but seems to have some importance to resolving the 
terminology issues. 
 
These three approaches do not overlap or conflict as far as I can see. 
 
Maybe there are two projects one which is aligned to represent FHIR and 
one which looks at the broader issue of Healthcare Ontology as you have 
described. I don’t think the third deserves a project. 
 
Tony Mallia 
 
From: Peter.Hendler@kp.org [mailto:Peter.Hendler@kp.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 5:33 PM
To: michel.dumontier@gmail.com
Cc: david@dbooth.org; Anthony Mallia; eric@w3.org; 
cnanjo@cognitivemedicine.com; Rafael.Richards@va.gov; 
public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org
Subject: Re: Propose an HL7 work group on RDF for Semantic 
Interoperability? 
 
We are in fact doing just that at Kaiser on a small experimental scale. We 
are working with Oxford and RDFox and creating an HL7 "RIM Like model". It 
is not the full RIM but is Entities in Roles Participating in Acts. 

I think it would be a mistake to try to put the whole RIM into RDF.  Also 
I'm not a fan of a de novo RDF model that is not based on Entities in 
Roles Participating in Acts, It would then just be an arbitrary other 
model.  You could put FIHR to RDF but I see little reason for it.  Since 
RDF is wide open (almost like saying lets do something in XML) you really 
have to think about what the model is based on before you start.  You've 
only got V2 (no good for RDF) RIM (much too big for RDF) and FIHR (not 
much advantage to RDF for this). 

With our "RIM like" model based on Entities in Roles that Participate in 
Acts, we expect to be able to run useful safety and outcome reports.  Also 
we use SNOMED so the ontology of SNOMED will be tightly coupled to our 
model, but our model will not be an extension of the SNOMED model. 

I'd be disappointed to see HL7 create a brand new model in RDF that is not 
based on Entities in Roles Participating in Acts. 





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From:        Michel Dumontier <michel.dumontier@gmail.com> 
To:        David Booth <david@dbooth.org> 
Cc:        Anthony Mallia <amallia@edmondsci.com>, "Prud'hommeaux, Eric" <
eric@w3.org>, Claude Nanjo <cnanjo@cognitivemedicine.com>, "Richards, 
Rafael M. (Rafael.Richards@va.gov)" <Rafael.Richards@va.gov>, w3c semweb 
HCLS <public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org> 
Date:        05/13/2014 02:01 PM 
Subject:        Re: Propose an HL7 work group on RDF for Semantic 
Interoperability? 

 






David, 
I'm excited about the prospect, but I think the work group may be a bit 
too broad without further refinement. I'd like to see a charter 
articulated with a more specific focus, and identifying milestones that 
deliver concrete outcomes (specifications, implementations, reports) 
around targeted areas of urgent need. 
More importantly, I'd like to know what the uptake will be (e.g. who will 
implement this), and how plans on using it. 

Cheers, 

m. 


Michel Dumontier 
Associate Professor of Medicine (Biomedical Informatics), Stanford 
University 
Chair, W3C Semantic Web for Health Care and the Life Sciences Interest 
Group 
http://dumontierlab.com 


On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 7:54 AM, David Booth <david@dbooth.org> wrote: 
I was at the HL7 meetings last week, and the idea arose of proposing an 
HL7 work group on RDF for Semantic Interoperability.  I took the 
initiative to draft a possible charter.  I meant to send it out earlier in 
case folks would like to discuss the idea on our 11:00am Eastern HCLS call 
today.  Attached is what I've drafted.  I'll join the call and see if 
anyone wants to discuss it.  Sorry for the late notice.

Zakim (W3C teleconference bridge).
Dial-In #: +1.617.761.6200 (Cambridge, MA)
VoIP address: sip:zakim@voip.w3.org

Participant Access Code: 4257 ("HCLS")
IRC: irc.w3.org port 6665 channel #HCLS

Thanks,
David