- From: Francois Daoust <fd@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 10:26:06 +0100
- To: <public-sdwig@w3.org>
Hi,
The minutes of the second day of the Spatial Data on the Web IG F2F in Amersfoort are available at:
https://www.w3.org/2018/02/20-sdw-minutes.html
... and copied as raw text below.
Summary of Resolutions taken during the meeting:
1. Re. SSN issues, idea is to: continue disussion, find resolutions on GitHub, collect solutions in a separate. Note Solutions may be implemented in a separate ontology files. Eventually this may lead to the chartering of a new SSN WG if there's enough material.
2. Add Video Geotagging Protocol For Electronic Maps to the funnel
3. Add CityJSON to the funnel in the incubation phase
4. add MapML to the funnel at the incubation phase
Summary of Action Items:
1. François to migrate the errata document to the GitHub repository
2. tidoust to create candidate issues for funnel
3. jtandy to present at Orleans PC
4. ChrisLittle to write a paragraph on this and put an issue in for temporal ontology
Thanks,
Francois
-----
Spatial Data on the Web IG F2F - Day 2/2
20 February 2018
[2]Agenda [3]IRC log
[2] https://www.w3.org/2017/sdwig/meetings/f2f-1.html
[3] https://www.w3.org/2018/02/20-sdw-irc
Attendees
Present
Armin Haller, Bill Roberts, Chris Little, Clemens
Portele, Francois Daoust, Hugo Ledoux, Jeremy Tandy,
Linda van den Brink, Maxime Lefranc, Michael Gordon,
Peter Rushforth, Raul Garcia Castro, Rob Smith, Scott
Simmons, Simon Cox
Chair
Linda, Jeremy
Scribe
Clemens Portele, Michael Gordon, Francois Daoust
Contents
* [4]Meeting Minutes
1. [5]SSN issues
1. [6]Pull request https://github.com/w3c/sdw/pull/
982 fixing typos and wrong links
2. [7]Pull request https://github.com/w3c/sdw/pull/
1000 in response to https://github.com/w3c/sdw/
issues/998 and https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/
999
3. [8]Proposal https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/
1004 to include hasUltimateFeatureOfInterest for
the property-chain ( sosa:hasFeatureOfInterest o
sosa:isSampleOf )
4. [9]Proposal https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/
1006 to move hasProperty from SSN to SOSA
namespace
2. [10]Stats on the Web BP
3. [11]Back to the Spatial Data on the Web Best Practices
4. [12]Video Geotagging format for Electronic Maps
5. [13]CityJSON
6. [14]MapML
* [15]Summary of Action Items
* [16]Summary of Resolutions
Meeting Minutes
SSN issues
Pull request [17]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/pull/982 fixing typos and
wrong links
[17] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/pull/982
Armin: I was wondering whether I can accept the pull request
right away. What's the process. Do we need to update the Note?
Francois: [explains the process, difficult to update the
Recommendation, errata document, possibility to update the
Editor's Draft in whatever way we want]
SimonCox: There's nothing that stops us from making any change
in the Editor's Draft. The issue is that nothing that we do in
the Editor's Draft would stand any chance of going into the
Recommendation
Francois: Right, the IG is not chartered to make normative
changes to the document.
... The Editor's Draft is supposedly owned by the IG
Armin: OK, we'll get back to that. So I can approve the pull
request here.
Jeremy: No objection.
Armin: OK, merged.
Pull request [18]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/pull/1000 in response to
[19]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/998 and [20]https://github.com/
w3c/sdw/issues/999
[18] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/pull/1000
[19] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/998
[20] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/999
Armin: Hard to follow what the actual changes are, because the
serialization changed. What's the proposed changes in SOSA/SSN?
mlefranc: Actually, I just added the RDF/XML serializations so
that we keep track of them from now on.
... The pull request implements a fix in SSN DUL
... Generation of the files done with Protégé
... Issue #998 is harder to fix.
... If you're loading the SSNX ontology in a reasoner, you
wouldn't be able to add an individual to those classes. Issue
explains it all.
... I just relaxed axioms (1) and (2).
... sosa:hasValue now subProperty of oldssn:hasValue, same for
sosa:hasResult
... The only thing that is implemented in the pull request is
to track the changes in the errata.
... Third issue is that there is a disjunction between
ssn:Property and sosa:FeatureOfInterest
... I think the reason why there is an unsatisfiability is that
we need to relax a couple of other axioms.
... I remember doing it back in April last year, but things
changed afterwards and that fell through the cracks.
<Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to confirm that the “complete” files
are just adding an RDF/XML encoding of existing material?
jtandy: The complete files added in there are just RDF/XML
encodings of stuff that were already in there?
mlefranc: This is the equivalent to the Turtle document.
... No base URI in the versions online, this new version keeps
the base URI.
jtandy: You talk about relaxing axioms. Is that backward
compatible?
... If a document conformed with the previous set of axioms,
does it still conform to the new one?
<SimonCox_> 'conform' has no real meaning in RDF ...
<arminhaller> not inconsistent
mlefranc: Yes.
... A valid ontology with the previous document is still a
valid ontology with the new one.
arminhaller: My understanding is that we need to list the
changes in the errata document.
<tidoust> [21]Errata document
[21] https://www.w3.org/2017/10/vocab-ssn-errata.html
Francois: Question is whether we're talking about normative
changes, or fixes to the spec. We'll need to add an entry to
the errata document. The fix itself can be incorporated in the
Editor's Draft.
mlefranc: It affects a non-normative section.
jtandy: So, that's all good. That falls within the scope of the
IG.
... We cannot update the published Recommendation, but it can
go straight in the errata, and we can update the Editor's Draft
mlefranc: A confirmation email would be good
brinkwoman: What about ontology files? Can they be updated?
Francois: Yes, no problem. My responsibility is to keep them in
sync with what the spec says, but there are no official process
we need to follow, we can update these files whenever we want.
<tidoust> [Some discussion on where the errata document lies.
Armin and Jeremy would prefer the document to appear in the
GitHub repository. Francois will move it there]
Proposal [22]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/1004 to include
hasUltimateFeatureOfInterest for the property-chain (
sosa:hasFeatureOfInterest o sosa:isSampleOf )
[22] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/1004
Action: François to migrate the errata document to the GitHub
repository
<trackbot> Created ACTION-383 - Migrate the errata document to
the github repository [on François Daoust - due 2018-02-27].
<SimonCox_> This diagram summarizes [23]https://github.com/w3c/
sdw/issues/1004#issuecomment-363990213
[23] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/1004#issuecomment-363990213
jtandy: Great, then we can integrate the change to the errata
document in the pull request and merge
SimonCox: The proposal is to make a substantive change to add
an ultimateFeatureOfInterest.
... Clearly, this is beyond the scope of the Interest Group.
... However, I'm bringing this now. Is it possible for the IG
to publish new axioms in a different namespace, as a W3C Note?
... What kind of artifacts can the IG publish?
Francois: The Charter envisions the possibility to create a
separate Note, so that's perfectly ok.
SimonCox: Wondering if we can reuse the same namespace, or
whether we need another one. Making changes in the SOSA
namespace may not be possible.
mlefranc: From what I can tell, I don't see any problem with
adding a new document to the SOSA/SSN namespace.
... Maybe an external module defined in a separate document.
jtandy: In terms of the namespace, so long as it doesn't change
how the rest of the spec works, I believe it's just a slightly
bigger version of what we've just been talking about.
... People can ignore this extension.
SimonCox: It does not disrupt anything, right.
jtandy: The complementary document that would describe this
extension would be published on the side.
arminhaller: We are allowed to create a new Note that defines
hasUltimateFeatureOfInterest. And we could create an ontology
file that imports the SSN ontology and adds the property. Is
that correct?
<SimonCox_> That is what I heard
... That new file would use the same namespace.
jtandy: That's my understanding.
SimonCox: Moving onto part 2 of my question, take a look at my
diagram, and let me know what you think
arminhaller: I suggest to park it for now, and discuss that now
that we know what we can do from a process perspective.
RaulGarciaCastro: To increase the adoption of the SSN ontology,
publishing a separate document is confusing. I would collect
issues and possible solutions, but would not publish other
non-normative documents
... For us, it might be clear, but for other people it would be
very confusing.
... When we have a number of issues, we can start writing a
Note.
SimonCox: Now we're getting on tactics and minuting. This
proposal was prompted by feedback from people using the
ontology.
... Someone contacted me saying she found it hard to use the
SSN ontology because it was missing that feature. Hence the
proposal to solve this. If there are barriers to adoption that
can be solved by amendments like this, we should remove these
barriers. People in the community would more easily adopt the
ontology with these changes.
jtandy: It seems better to add extensions in a controlled
namespace than having everyone publish extensions everywhere.
SimonCox: Right.
RaulGarciaCastro: We can propose solutions as an Interest
Group. We shouldn't create a new version. Unless we plan to
publish a new Note every year, but that's confusing.
arminhaller: We know the process now. We may need to come to a
resolution on what we're going to do. How we will implement
this Note. What I hear is that we want the Note, but the
question remains as to whether we also provide the
implementation in terms of an ontology file.
... Next issue also somehow relates to a process issue
Proposal [24]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/1006 to move
hasProperty from SSN to SOSA namespace
[24] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/1006
arminhaller: Just wanted to quickly raise that issue. We
discussed that issue for quite a long time initially.
... In the very beginning, the decision was made that we keep
specific properties but that generic properties would be
confusing.
... The difference here is that this would be a change to the
normative part, which is not possible.
... Assuming we would agree on this, what this would mean is
that the term would move from SSN to SOSA. It could make it
into the Note. We could create an ontology file that imports
the SOSA ontology.
... And defines the term. The SSN ontology would deprecate that
term.
... That's a different issue, because it touches on normative
parts of the document.
... That could be done in a companion note
<SimonCox_> Would you also say sosa:hasProperty
owl:equivalentProperty ssn:hasProperty . ?
mlefranc: I would be in favour of what has been proposed.
Ironically, we would end up with two documents that end up
defining terms in the same SOSA namespace.
<Zakim> tidoust, you wanted to mention the possibility to
re-charter a WG
<SimonCox_> mlefranc identifies a technical
packaging/publishing issue but I'm relaxed about that
Francois: It's always possible to re-create a WG to publish a
second version of the SSN Recommendation. That would make
things cleaner from a normative perspective. Or the document
could be put in scope of an existing WG if we can find one.
jtandy: So idea here is to move a term defined in the complex
namespace to the simple namespace.
arminhaller: Yes, but we don't have a resolution here. We can
continue the discussion on GitHub. If we end up with a
resolution on GitHub, we can think of creating a separate Note,
then a separate ontology file, and then decide whether we can
work on a new version of the SSN spec.
jtandy: OK, so continue the discussions. Collect issues and
propose solutions in a Note, and then consider whether this
warrants the chartering of a WG
SimonCox: I'm concerned we're proceeding over Raul's objection
RaulGarciaCastro: I'm fine so far
jtandy: Armin, do you want a resolution on how we proceed?
arminhaller: Continue disussion. Find resolutions on GitHub.
Collect solutions in a separate Note. May work on separate
ontology files. Eventually may lead to the chartering of a new
SSN WG if there's enough material.
PROPOSED: Re. SSN issues, idea is to: continue disussion, find
resolutions on GitHub, collect solutions in a separate Note.
Solutions may be implemented in a separate ontology files.
Eventually this may lead to the chartering of a new SSN WG if
there's enough material.
<jtandy> +1
<RaulGarciaCastro> +1
<brinkwoman> +1
<SimonCox_> +1
<arminhaller> +1
<tidoust> +1
<mlefranc> +1
<billroberts> +1
<RobSmith> +1
+1
<MichaelGordon> +1
Resolved: Re. SSN issues, idea is to: continue disussion, find
resolutions on GitHub, collect solutions in a separate Note.
Solutions may be implemented in a separate ontology files.
Eventually this may lead to the chartering of a new SSN WG if
there's enough material.
jtandy: The knock-on from that is that you will work on finding
a consensus on the two issues that you have on GitHub.
arminhaller: Yes.
... On a different front, the outstanding issue around starting
our SSN primer, haven't started yet. Busy time of the year. I
will kick things off next week hopefully.
... Happy that we've made progress on the pressing issues on
SSN.
<RaulGarciaCastro> jtandy Which day do you have the slot?
jtandy: Thank you Armin. I would note that we have a small slot
on the plenary of the OGC Technical Committee in Orleans next
week. If you want Linda to raise the SSN Primer there, just
tell us, and provide some material.
<mlefranc> thanks, bye !
<SimonCox_> bye
<RaulGarciaCastro> Bye
<ChrisLittle> bye
<arminhaller> thanks, bye!
Stats on the Web BP
See <billroberts> [25]agenda for Stats on the Web BP
[25] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/meetings/stats-bp-agenda.md
billroberts: Want to clarify what we're aiming to do, and what
we're not, especially because it's potentially a very large
subject.
... I'd like to gather existing work that we should consider.
... And then get on some consistent way of doing things.
... Obviously, we're working within the Spatial Data on the Web
IG, so we should pay particular attention on the intersection
between statistical data and spatial data.
... It's "on the Web" as well.
... Also, what do we mean by statistics. Government data, but
also scientific statistics, such as meteorological data.
... Are there other types of data that we should take into
account?
... I think it should be narrower than "all data", but most
data has some statistical component.
ChrisLittle: We don't want to reinvent wheels. What is
distinctive for statistical data compared to regular data on
the Web? That's the key thing
<billroberts> Evangelos - looks like our phone connection has
dropped - just dialling in again
<billroberts> we are back but looks like you have gone -
hopefully you can rejoin soon
ChrisLittle: One of the ways of finding the distinction is by
looking at the existing best practices to identify requirements
that are clearly specific to statistical data.
MichaelGordon: Do we feel that we have the mandate to look at
statistical data in general, or at statistical data in relation
with spatial data?
ChrisLittle: I think that restricting to geospatial data, we
might be missing something. So actually, I think we should look
broadly initially.
... That's the reason why I raised a use case about time.
billroberts: Also, I have the feeling that it does not narrow
it that much.
... Most characteristics should be similar. Geospatial data
actually extend the scope.
MichaelGordon: I was more thinking of narrowing down the range.
Also lack of authority among participants perhaps
ChrisLittle: If you look at the main difference between data on
the web and spatial data on the web best practices, that's the
CRS.
<billroberts> [26]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/
public-sdwig/2018Jan/0048.html
[26] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdwig/2018Jan/0048.html
billroberts: Andrea went through the list of data on the Web
best practices, see email.
... A structure for a best practices document could be to
follow the Data on the Web Best Practices document, and extend
each section with "if you're dealing with statistical data..."
jtandy: Initially, we thought we'd do that for Spatial Data on
the Web, but then decided against it.
... In some cases, nothing to add. Also, it started with
metadata and we did not want to emphasize that first in the
Spatial Data on the Web Best Practices
... For sure, you should go through the best practices and
check whether we want to add something or not.
... All data on the Web Best Practices apply.
... You may want to add extra things.
brinkwoman: Did Andrea find anything missing yet?
billroberts: It's just a starting point for discussion right
now.
... The "on the Web" bit is also where we can come up with
advice.
... Current practice in the UK for government data is that
figures will come up every year, published as a PDF document
accompanied by a couple of spreadsheets. That's how it gets
done right now.
... Lack of machine readable access to it. Lack of
interoperability between different publishers.
... That's an example of an area where we could point out best
practices.
... In the scientific sector, it could be large files, probably
more machine-readable, but subsetting it is difficult.
ChrisLittle: That's one aspect. Also about understanding what
the data is.
... For instance, wind speeds, you may use them, but not
realize that it's a mean wind speed, and that there are
extremes as well that the data do not convey.
billroberts: Adding URIs to this data allows you to associate
definitions.
ChrisLittle: Standard controls and vocabularies. Don't invent
your own definition of arithmetic mean.
billroberts: Also, if you find multiple properties that match
what you wnat to expose, how to choose?
ChrisLittle: The authority might be important. The authority
might exist but data has not been updated in 20 years
jtandy: When we started the work on SDW BP, we thought we'd
have a lot to say about ontologies, but then there was not to
say in the end. Just "look at your community" in essence.
... Also, the CSV on the Web work. One of the key motivation
for that is people publishing statistical data in spreadsheets.
... Quite a lot of material in CSV on the Web demonstrating
statistical data.
<Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to mention CSVW
billroberts: I mentioned in the agenda examples of works we're
aware of.
... It's not that we need to produce a comprehensive list.
<jtandy> CSV on the Web Primer: [27]https://www.w3.org/TR/
tabular-data-primer/
... The way that we could take those into account.
... One problem is we haven't got any proper statistician in
this group. We want to make sure that our output gets reviewed
by experts.
... I've been getting in touch with a few people, UK stats.
... Linda managed to get someone from the Dutch bureau of
statistics.
[27] https://www.w3.org/TR/tabular-data-primer/
ChrisLittle: Also look at ICSU (possibly CoData)
billroberts: Best to take actions to engage people. Happy to
check with statistical government agencies.
... SDMX people as well, been discussing with someone.
RobSmith: Would it make sense to contact Geovation as well?
... Looking at WiFi and buses, presumably they have
statisticians looking at data
MichaelGordon: The Geovation crowd themselves probably does not
do that directly.
billroberts: Good group to engage through other UK based
communities
jtandy: I remember that Kerry Taylor did some presentation
about stats in Australia
billroberts: Yes, used to work with the Australian Bureau of
Statistics. I believe Jo works with them now
billroberts: Looking at our work program now
<billroberts> [28]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/
stats-bp/work-plan.md
... I proposed the work plan. No objection.
... By the end of this month, we should aim to have a first
version of the use cases document.
... That's not entirely unfeasible. I don't think that will be
a closed document.
... Then I was proposing to turn these use cases into
requirements by the end of March.
... Merge the two by end of April, and then draft best
practices.
[28] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/stats-bp/work-plan.md
jtandy: I think we spent too much time on use cases before
doing the spatial data on the web best practices
... I would not try to finish use cases upfront. I would do
things in parallel.
... You lose nothing going through the Data on the Web Best
Practices.
... It will stimulate you in finding use cases, actually.
... Is statistical data special for each one? That's a good
filter.
ChrisLittle: Right. We should simply add a couple of use cases
to the document to have something slightly more complete in
terms of coverage.
jtandy: First Public Working Draft really just shows that
you've started working, doesn't have to be finished or
polished.
... The more finished it looks, the fewer people will come and
help you.
ChrisLittle: Putting controversial things in there can actually
help getting feedback
jtandy: A regular release schedule proved useful. An iterative
approach.
... It helps focus the minds of people involved in the work.
brinkwoman: It would be nice if you have a list of best
practices that you want to write in the right order
beforehands.
Francois: I was about to suggest the opposite in a way. Don't
worry about the order to start with. Just keep in mind that the
order will change, so make it easy to do so and don't spend
time on intro text.
billroberts: OK, I will revise that draft document accordingly.
<tidoust> [side discussion on the order of best practices. You
have to see the draft list to have a feeling of what will be
possible]
jtandy: The current order in the SDW best practices can be
applicable to statistical data. You may have extra things to
look at though.
... Some things we wrote in Web principle best practices were
written because they were missing from the Data on the Web Best
Practices, which could not easily be updated.
Discussion in 2017: [29]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/
BP_2017_reordering_proposal
... Question as to whether you reproduce them or reference them
[29] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_2017_reordering_proposal
jtandy: Looking at the first best practice, we were willing to
have people think in terms of giving an identifier to a real
postbox.
... Not sure that applies to statistical data.
billroberts: Statistical data will have a reference to a
spatial thing most of the time.
ChrisLittle: You also have the concept of a sample, which is a
subset of your population.
jtandy: All of our dimensions should be uniquely identified in
other words
billroberts: Yes.
jtandy: So going through the existing best practices is useful
to identify what to say for statistical data
brinkwoman: Is it possible that additional best practices for
Spatial Data on the Web will pop up during discussions?
ChrisLittle: possibly
RobSmith: You touched on modeling. Simulated data vs. actual
data.
billroberts: A big area that Chris is highlighting. What you
are measuring.
... SDMX has the mechanism but people do not use it a lot. What
your statistical measure is.
... Is a mean, median, percentile? What was the sampling
approach? What was the population you were sampling from?
... Lots of surveys. How were they designed? How did you choose
the people you asked?
... How did you correct the values to take the rest of the
population into account?
... With a URI, you can link back to a methodology document.
jtandy: That's a good start.
ClemensPortele: Wondering about the liaison with the Semantic
Statistics Community Group. The CG seems dead
Francois: Evangelos represents that group here.
billroberts: Essentially, the group has done nothing. But
people in the group are active in the field.
kalampokis: All the people who are currently in the group are
working on publishing and reusing statistical data using linked
data technologies.
... They say that they are interested in having discussions.
... I will send an email to coordinate. Whether we want to have
a parallel discussion in the CG or have the discussion in the
IG directly is up for discussion.
... I can help with coordination.
billroberts: Maybe a good way to do it is to ask them a
specific question. Once we have a draft document, "what do you
think of this?" rather than "please engage".
kalampokis: I agree
billroberts: Any other comment?
jtandy: Is the motivation to check an existing body of work and
encourage people to share the same approach, or are you trying
to identify a wider pool of best practices that you believe
should apply?
billroberts: My objective is to get different publisher doing
it in a more compatible way.
... Bringing good expertise is one aspect of it.
... The reason I care about interoperability is that the data
would have more value, which in turn would mean that people
would have more incentive to publish data.
jtandy: So, you have working practice and you hope to identify
other working practices and find some harmony among these.
billroberts: To what extent do we document practices followed
vs. recommendations for new practices?
Francois: That question always comes up in best practices
groups. No real answer. "If there's no solution, that means
there's no problem" (copyright Shadoks)
jtandy: The CG must be able to identify examples that they're
working on, and other sources.
... That makes me think of an interesting question: the
statistician will be the ones working with the data published,
not the ones publishing data.
ChrisLittle: I think it's too simple to say that the document
is targeting publishers only. Need to take a user perspective.
jtandy: Looking back at Spatial Data on the Web Best Practices,
we decided not to write best practices on how you might
consume, or reuse your data.
billroberts: Statisticians are often responsible for the data
that gets published
Francois: One of the best practices could actually be to
publish raw data along with the analyzed data so that other
analyses can be made on the data.
<tidoust> [discussion on anonymizing data]
MichaelGordon: Does that bring some requirement about reversal
of data? If you're publishing statistical data, choosing
appropriate anonymisation techniques (considering the GDPR)
<jtandy> (We talked about being able to trace from an aggregate
dataset to the raw dataset, e.g. using PROV, where the raw data
)
billroberts: That's a good question. I'd like to refer to
things where that's been considered.
... It's a big deal in government data: the methodology you
used to anonymize the data.
<jtandy> (Cont... raw data may not be published online, e.g.
because it is not anonymous / personal data)
RobSmith: I looked at privacy issue when we published a
personal tracker on the phone. I haven't thought of revealing
something else. Example of the military bases with joggers
data.
jtandy: In terms of what you want people to do with analytical
data. Are you expecting people to do statistical analyses
online or to take their own copy and work offline?
billroberts: At the moment, it's more an offline model.
... There is a question of easy access to the latest data, and
the ability to make subsets.
... One of the best practices we had for spatial data was about
supporting different formats to ease reuse. This will apply
here as well.
... You'll want to facilitate downloads in different formats.
jtandy: Don't assume that one format is enough was one of our
assumptions. Also applies here.
billroberts: Yes.
... Sometimes, people need a clear definition of what the terms
are, sometimes, they don't care. Being able to ignore that info
when not needed and find that info when needed is useful.
Francois: One side point that publishing the Use cases &
requirements document as a First Public Working Draft is not
required per se. Can remain a document on GitHub, or you can
fold it into the Best Practices document to start with.
jtandy: That's fine if you can cross-reference the use cases
with a permanent identifier in the end
Francois: Right, what I mean is that you don't have to follow a
specific order. That can be done later on, as needed. Still a
good practice to publish a FPWD before publishing a Note, even
though the process allows to publish a Note directly.
<billroberts> [30]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/
stats-bp/draft-use-case-list.md
[30] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/stats-bp/draft-use-case-list.md
billroberts: OK. Final thing I wanted to talk is our list of
use cases
... It would be interesting to get suggestions about use cases
that we don't have. Also about styles.
ChrisLittle: And whether we need a formal structure.
... Certainly my use cases, I can turn them into requirements,
and write a use case scenario.
billroberts: Seems useful to provide a bit of context to people
who are not experts
MichaelGordon: It provides the "why" it is important.
Francois: The why will appear in the Best Practices. Need to
strike a right balance between spending time on use cases and
on the best practices. Should probably be skewed towards the
best practices. Iterative process.
billroberts: Rough summary of what's in here so far.
<billroberts> Evangelos: we are presenting and talking over
[31]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/stats-bp/
draft-use-case-list.md
[31] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/stats-bp/draft-use-case-list.md
ChrisLittle: First one is about representing statistical
parameters.
... I see people still inventing conventions for describing
parameters
billroberts: Always about the definition of what you're
measuring.
ChrisLittle: Sometimes, it's hidden in the unit, other times in
the name, other times in an extra attribute.
... In fact, 25 years ago, we mixed all 3.
<jtandy> The statistical measures that Chris mentions are
published as linked data here: [32]http://codes.wmo.int/grib2/
codeflag/4.10
[32] http://codes.wmo.int/grib2/codeflag/4.10
billroberts: Right, it should be clear for everyone what a
particular number represents.
... GRIB2 Code Table 4.10
ChrisLittle: This was the problem we had, and this is the
approach we took. Requirement is along the lines of a standard
mechanism of annotating.
jtandy: One of the things you wanted to do was to reference
vocabularies.
... One of the challenges is to relate the notion of average in
different domains.
ChrisLittle: Next use case is around representing temporal
data.
... Aggregating values per month for instance, where months
don't have the same number of days.
<tidoust> jtandy: Daily minimum probably goes from 8:00am to
8:00am for instance.
ChrisLittle: Exactly, and the minimum could be before midnight,
which might upset people.
<tidoust> [discussion on possible mechanisms]
billroberts: Next use cases on area profile. Some kind of
collection of data for a school to decide whether to send your
child to it or not.
... A lot of it is around good identifiers for places and
discovery of data, trust of sources.
MichaelGordon: example of policy makers. Simple tool made to
compare e.g. employment rate in different cities. And then
refinements.
billroberts: A lot of local authorities spend a lot of time
doing this.
... Can we understand the data enough to compare it?
... Finding places by criteria
... Next one is about slicing and dicing a statistical data
cube.
... Very commonly, you want to arrange a subset including
possible values on a given dimension.
<jtandy> [33]https://github.com/w3c/csvw/blob/gh-pages/
examples/rdf-data-cube-example.md
[33] https://github.com/w3c/csvw/blob/gh-pages/examples/rdf-data-cube-example.md
jtandy: The RDF data cube example I wrote for CSV on the Web
could perhaps be relevant here.
... It shows how we constructed the metadata that goes with the
CSV to create an RDF data cube.
... This particular dataset was human processed. Other stuff
happen upstream to this.
billroberts: Some use cases about sharing identifiers.
Consistent identifiers. Somebody has to manage these codes.
jtandy: Is that not a generic practice about publishing data?
ClemensPortele: That's what I was thinking too.
billroberts: Maybe nothing specific to statistical data.
... Usually done well for geographical areas, and badly for
everything else. Things would be a lot more interoperable if
people did that better.
ClemensPortele: When I look at the area profile use case, you
need to bring things together which supposes common
vocabularies.
jtandy: The use case is to use data because they understand how
to aggregate it.
billroberts: It's not a technically complex thing, but social
issues usually stand in the way.
<tidoust> [looking at "registers" in the UK]
billroberts: Also use case for publishers. When you're
preparing the data, you need to be able to identify what the
right identifiers are for your data. Maybe same use case
... Another one that has come up in various forms is provision
estimates. Statistical organizations usually improve on
published data after an initial publication. Example of GDP
data.
... 3 estimates of GDP in the UK for instance.
... You might end up with 3 different values for the same
thing.
ChrisLittle: Same concept in meteorological where we label data
with Level 0, Level 1, and Level 2.
MichaelGordon: Requirement is about being able to version a
statistical set of data that you may be publishing
billroberts: Yes.
jtandy: Already covered by existing best practices
<billroberts> Evangelos - just re-starting webex here
Francois: In the end, instead of new best practices, you might
end up with techniques to apply best practices to statistical
data. That would be a fine document too.
billroberts: Another use case about comparing data across
countries.
jtandy: In the CSV on the Web work, that is one of the use
cases that motivated Jeni's work.
billroberts: Comparison of geographical data. Specific case of
an existing best practice
... The next one is too broad, because it encompasses all
others. Represent statistical quantities in RDF.
... Here are examples of data we have, how to represent them?
... OK, that's kind of where we are at the moment.
Francois: Previous discussion on data anonymization and
publication of raw dataset could be turned into a use case too.
ChrisLittle: People have some data and they want to annotate it
in some way to identify the uncertainty. That would be a valid
use case as well.
... Both quantitatively and qualitatively
<tidoust> [example of temperature measurements excluded when
computing averages for climate change computations, e.g. due to
someone mowing the lawn nearby]
billroberts: Probably some data on the Web best practice that
talks about it.
<jtandy> ref the project that Jon Blower was involved in about
annotation metadata ... the CHARMe project: [34]http://
charme.org.uk
[34] http://charme.org.uk/
billroberts: So I've pretty much reached the end of what I
wanted to touch upon.
RobSmith: One comment about use cases. I try to think about
scenarios that are realistic. What I find is that some of the
details can easily be lost. What I found useful to me was to
have a list of benefits linked to each use case.
... The use case may have more than one benefit.
<Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to ask if the BP template will be
reused?
jtandy: Will you use the BP template?
billroberts: General plan is to follow the same plan,
essentially yes. Any lessons learned?
jtandy: I think that would help create a generic feeling across
the best practices that we write.
... Also we reused the benefits from the Data on the Web Best
practices document
Back to the Spatial Data on the Web Best Practices
brinkwoman: In one of the calls, I mentioned that it could be a
good idea to create a tool to do validation or conformance
testing
... We usually do it at Geonovum.
... Possibly it's not easy or possible to create an automated
checker.
ClemensPortele: My view is that, at this level, it is not
possible.
... Best practices require some interpretation.
... You can only do that with specifications.
... What might be possible to do is to have a checklist of
things that you could check.
Francois: Agree with starting with techniques, a checklist. An
automated checked is hard to achieve and time consuming, and
often time boxed (techniques evolve). Example of the mobileOK
Checker.
<tidoust> [also question of hosting the service]
<tidoust> [discussing which best practices are being addressed
in WFS]
brinkwoman: It seems it's useful to create a checklist.
ClemensPortele: Another direction would be to make explicit the
best practices you follow, but I don't think we're at that
stage.
RobSmith: [example of GPX validation when crossing the
Greenwich meridian, with 1e-04 numbers making the value
invalid]. Validation is useful.
<tidoust> [discussing possible validation tests]
jtandy: (goes through the agenda items for the afternoon)
<jtandy> [35]https://www.w3.org/2017/sdwig/meetings/f2f-1.html
[35] https://www.w3.org/2017/sdwig/meetings/f2f-1.html
jtandy: The goal for the afternoon is to identify the input to
the funnel (once we have the green light to add to it)
Video Geotagging format for Electronic Maps
<jtandy> [36]https://www.w3.org/2018/02/
19-sdw-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary
[36] https://www.w3.org/2018/02/19-sdw-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary
jtandy: (reads the five resolutions)
… only work that goes to a standards track will end up in the
funnel
… we have a process in place
<tidoust> [37]Evaluation phase in the strategy funnel
[37] https://github.com/w3c/strategy/blob/master/3.Evaluation.md#evaluation
tidoust: this is the process to decide whether something is
ready for chartering
<tidoust> [38]Rec track readiness best practices
[38] https://www.w3.org/Guide/standards-track/
tidoust: provides a check list - is there a clear problem
statement? explicit success criteria? do we have the right
participants and is there an ecosystem? etc.
jtandy: That is the re-cap I wanted to go through. Rob, is it
clear enough to you as the first candidate?
RobSmith: Yes, it answers my questions. I don't want to waste
peoples time.
… The current proposal is at an early stage, currently about 6
weeks of work from one person. Will it work in a browser?
… Funding is important, too. Funding application pending. I
would be interested, to understand early, if there is interest
in the group.
tidoust: This goes back to the question of ecosystem and
participants.
RobSmith: I gave a short presentation at the last plenary.
Would it be worth repeating?
jtandy: Yes, please.
[39]https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-sdw-minutes.html#x03
[39] https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-sdw-minutes.html#x03
[40]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdwig/2018Feb/
att-0030/WebVMTIntroShort180207.pdf
[40] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdwig/2018Feb/att-0030/WebVMTIntroShort180207.pdf
RobSmith: Slides are brief and contain only the main points (10
minute presentation)
RobSmith: New slide set has additional detail (12 slides).
… Work was triggered by a call from OSGB to show the location
of people in a tv show. Geotagging in pictures is available,
but not really in videos.
… Show particular events in the video on a map. Not just the
location, but also other presentational input (e.g. direction).
… Also the capability for annotations.
MichaelGordon: Location and direction are essential also
essential for AR
RobSmith: I set up a tech demo for this. Came across the VTT
mechanism for subtitles on You Tube. Based on a standard.
… Text-to-speach support. There is an existing mechanism for
annotations that could also be used as a framework to add
geospatial information.
… Did a comparison between photo and video. Standard mechanism
for photos (exif, many cameras support it out-of-the-box), but
not for video (except add-on for high-end equipment)
… But could we use the smartphone (can capture video and has
sensors for spatial information)
<PeterRushforth> hi don't have access to webex info, sorry
tidoust: This may be a reason for not having the information in
a separate file. Device manufacturers will likely prefer an
integrated approach.
RobSmith: I think GoPro records location information in a
separate text file. But I have not checked in detail.
<jtandy> [41]https://www.w3.org/TR/web-packaging/
[41] https://www.w3.org/TR/web-packaging/
jtandy: Web-packaging may help here
tidoust: My point was to be careful how to present this.
RobSmith: An extra file helps to leave MPEG as it is
MichaelGordon: Does it require hardware manufacturers to
support it?
RobSmith: Not necessarily, but it could help
… you can do it in software "today", and in the hardware
devices in the future
jtandy: This is about spatial data on the Web, so this fits our
mandate
RobSmith: The idea would not be to support just a single maps
API (Google Maps, Open Layers, Leaflet), but support multiple
ones
ChrisLittle: An abstract spec would help to clarify the
concepts independent of the implementation and identify
conformance classes
RobSmith: Use case examples - coastguard/mountain rescue, area
survey
ChrisLittle: Have you considered temporal aspects? E.g. which
areas have been covered?
RobSmith: Yes.
(discussion of work starting in the OGC UAX group)
tidoust: A key benefit of a standard is to share data, so this
should be included in the use cases.
RobSmith: The third use case (swarm monitoring, operating drone
within a swarm) does this
RobSmith: This is about enabling the use cases, not providing a
(closed) solution
RobSmith: Francois asked the queston how a web app would use
it.
… (shows <track> element in a <video> element and a sample
modified VMT file)
tidoust: Interesting that you are focussing on rendering, not
the data itself
RobSmith: The rendering is important, the line has a particular
meaning (it is a multilayered problem and we do not have time
to go into detail)
tidoust: Is there any relationship to the "describing moving
objects" deliverable?
jtandy: No, we have no information yet on that deliverable...
RobSmith: (shows tech demo)
RobSmith: Any frame in the video is associated with a map - it
is synchronised
jtandy: I think we all agree that fits, it could be for OGC
and/or W3C, it requires a standard
PROPOSED: Add Video Geotagging Protocol For Electronic Maps to
the funnel
ScottSimmons: There are probably some OGC members that have
something that is similar, so we should engage them early.
jtandy: Patent free is also important.
RobSmith: No issues, I want this as a open standard to see
adoption.
billroberts: The evaluation of existing standards would come as
part of the evaluation process?
tidoust: Yes!
<MichaelGordon> +1
<tidoust> +1
<jtandy> +1
<brinkwoman> +1
<billroberts> +1
<ScottSimmons> +1
<RobSmith> +1
<ChrisLittle> +1
Resolved: Add Video Geotagging Protocol For Electronic Maps to
the funnel
jtandy: This should be added to the first phase (exploration).
Scott, how should Rob engage with OGC members?
ScottSimmons: Will do a call for information and reach out to
some members this/next week
jtandy: Next plenary call we will include and update on the
status. Rob can you track those actions?
RobSmith: Yes
CityJSON
jtandy: (welcomes Hugo Ledoux)
Hugo: (shows CityJSON slides)
… mostly following the OGC work, but not actively involved
… CityGML - for buildings and much more (basically everything
inside and outside of cities)
… 5 levels of detail (LoD)
… adoption of CityGML not great, software support is limited,
hard to work with CityGML files
… I immediately convert it to OBJ to work with it
… Data model is good, GML encoding hard
… Some time ago I looked into a JSON encoding for the data.
Shared on the CityGML list, a mixed reception.
tidoust: Is license of CityGML an issue?
MichaelGordon: No, not with the OGC license
Hugo: Difficult to work for students to work with CityGML
files, easier with CityJSON
… Now mapped all the CityGML modules
… Did it manually and not using an automated encoding rule. The
reason is the complexity of the conceptual model.
… Some constraints (e.g., all geometries are in the same CRS)
… For now left out raster, DTM
… Added a metadata object
… Topology is preserved, vertices are referenced from the city
object geometries
… Surfaces can have semantics
… Currently only links within the same file
… (discusses differences to GeoJSON)
… some similarities to TopoJSON
… a JSON schema is available
… We wrote software to support CityJSON - from the beginning
… Claus Nagel implemented CityGML <-> CityJSON in citygml4j
library
… I do not plan to parse a CityGML file ever again, just
convert it to CityJSON and use that
… Important to involve developers early in the process
jtandy: Questions for Hugo?
tidoust: I ask stupid questions as I am new to the map aspect,
look at it from the Web perspective. Some discussion on the
mailing list.
… What is the relationship with maps. How does it fit together?
ChrisLittle: You are a bit restrictive. Map is LoD 0.
tidoust: Map is not a 2D map for me.
Hugo: different cities maintain different feature types beside
buildings (terrain, roads, etc).
… I prefer to talk about data, not maps, but the data can be
used for maps etc.
ChrisLittle: Maps are typically the output of a computation
using the data
ChrisLittle: Since you have offended a few people in OGC, would
you work with them.
Hugo: Yes, and I like the model of CityGML. CityGML 3 will also
look at other encodings.
billroberts: This reminds me about the CoverageJSON discussion
we had earlier in the SDWWG.
<jtandy> CoverageJSON: [42]https://covjson.org
[42] https://covjson.org/
billroberts: CoverageJSON never got that far due to open
questions with regard to "webiness" - can you link into it, can
you break it down into manageable pieces
Hugo: There is work with using CityJSON in WFS. Currently
CityJSON is not tailored for the Web, but it may evolve to
address this.
jtandy: When you look at CityJSON, does it seem like an
encoding that could be supported by WFS 3.0?
ClemensPortele: I don't see that as being mandated by a
conformance class today, but you could write an extension.
jtandy: So it would fit in the OGC ecosystem?
ClemensPortele: Yes!
<billroberts> CoverageJSON: what I meant to say is that in the
SDW Working Group we didn't have time to investigate in detail
about identifiers and API mechanism for easily retrieving
subsets. For the core use case of CoverageJSON, to have a
Javascript friendly (and hence web browser friendly)
representation of coverages, then I think CoverageJSON achieved
its goals very well
jtandy: Is it available under an open license? Patents?
Hugo: It could be made available under an open license. No
patents.
jtandy: Why should it be a standard?
Hugo: Not interested in fighting for it, but a label as a
standard would help to see adoption by government
organisations.
jtandy: Any others beside Claus Nagel and you that would work
on this?
Hugo: Not at the moment.
jtandy: So some community building is needed, not yet ready for
chartering. Further down the line than the video geotagging.
jtandy: It would probably fit with OGC due to the closeness
with CityGML. But visibility for the Web community may be
relevant, too.
tidoust: Yes, closer integration with Web Browers would
indicate that it would fit in W3C, too, but right now this does
not sound like the main focus.
Hugo: At least for now. Some concerns that the CityGML
development is not developer focussed, W3C seems to be more
developer driven.
MichaelGordon: One thing that should be discussed in an
incubation phase are the SDW best practices.
Hugo: Yes, I welcome input on this.
tidoust: This could also be an indicator for a joint process.
PROPOSED: Add CityJSON to the funnel in the incubation phase
<jtandy> +1
<brinkwoman> +1
<tidoust> +1
<RobSmith> +1
<billroberts> +1
+1
<ChrisLittle> +1 on behalf of Hugo
<MichaelGordon> +1
Resolved: Add CityJSON to the funnel in the incubation phase
jtandy: What do you need for the next phase?
Hugo: Feedback from a Web perspective. How to deal with large
files. All discussions should occur on the GitHub repository.
(agreement to continue using the GitHub repository)
jtandy: Are the issues registered as issues on GitHub?
Hugo: Not yet, but I will add them.
brinkwoman: Should Rob and Hugo join the IG as an invited
expert?
tidoust: It would be good. I will work with them on this.
MapML
jtandy: We want to find out how and where MapML fits.
PeterRushforth: The Maps for HTML CG started as a result of the
W3C/OGC workshop in London in 2014.
… Wouldn't it be good to use as an HTML author just a regular
HTML element to put a map on a web page?
… In 2014 I had a mandate to work on this as looking for
support to the idea. We made some progress since then,
including developer resources in a GitHub organisation.
… Map Markup Language is the key specification I am going to
talk about today.
<brinkwoman> [43]https://maps4html.github.io/MapML/spec/
[43] https://maps4html.github.io/MapML/spec/
PeterRushforth: MapML is a "DOMable" format.
… Oriented towards browser-developers, not web-developers.
… Extend the HTML to support maps in the traditional web
mapping sense. Building on top of the "image map" concept from
HTML, i.e. a more general <map> element.
<ScottSimmons> Scott is back - sorry, much worse roads than I
had hoped
PeterRushforth: The draft makes use of Web Components and
specifies a customized <map> element. A draft implementation
exists.
… (shows JavaScript implementation demo)
… NRCan uses MapML, mainly in demos
… (demonstrates adding an additional layer to a map)
… In OGC Testbed 13 both conceptual work on MapML (Engineering
Report) and another implementation.
… Could bring maps closer to the W3C community.
… Less interest in Testbed 14 than I hoped for.
… This is the state of MapML at the moment.
… Why should it be standard? The barrier to use spatial
information on the Web is currently to high. Requires
programming, which is out of reach for many.
… Interest by developers including from JavaScript Map API
developers (e.g. Leaflet)
ChrisLittle: You mentioned missing bits...
PeterRushforth: Two examples: A capability to modify/add the
content -> form-processing. Feature content is unpredictable
(e.g. elements within <properties> are unknown to a client) ->
capability to add semantics using microdata.
jtandy: Why microdata?
PeterRushforth: Not so much microdata than HTML. Similar to
itemscope/schema.org, leverage mainstream.
MichaelGordon: How extensible is MapML? JavaScript Map APIs
allow extensions, can MapML support this and has hooks for such
extensions?
PeterRushforth: MapML intends to be HTML for maps, so not
extensible per se and somewhat rigid. Markup is content
oriented, styling uses CSS.
… HTML is extensible using JavaSript, there yould be something
similar in MapML where scripts could be used to provide
extensibility.
… (shows MapML document)
… (Shows URL template mechanism - added in Testbed 13)
MichaelGordon: Is indexing by search engines an advantage?
Probably more code for MapML than a Leaflet script required
PeterRushforth: Yes, but this is declarative and has a clearer
semantics.
… Semantics of the map is obscured by the JavaScript, clearer
in a media type
tidoust: Still unclear about the definition of "map". At one
point a sequence of layers, in the MapML example layer does not
exist.
… Related to this: Did you have contact with browser vendors?
PeterRushforth: Abstract concept of a map is 2d and supports
mesh-up. The MapML example essentially is a map layer.
… The browser developer community is tough to interact. This
proposal is a bit coming out of nowhere for them.
… The only way that maps become part of HTML is that the map
community comes together.
… Browser developers look at adoption by web developers, but
this is not about replacing the existing JavaScript Map APIs.
<MichaelGordon> scribenick MichaelGordon
RobSmith: 1) Accessible not just for programmers, which is a
good selling point,though might be a hard sell for a
development community that has already done work to solve the
issue 2) you mentioned modification and deletion was something
that you already had to do - for geotagging video for
electronic maps we don't need to but for deletion IDs might be
applicable, ChrisLittle also pointed us to SMIL
<MichaelGordon> RobSmith and PeterRushforth to take this
discussion offline in interests of time
brinkwoman: not clear what the added value of this is?
<tidoust> [FWIW, note SVG animations is not widely supported
across browsers (and will be dropped from a future version of
Chrome)]
...would you encode spatial data in mapml? would there be
actual coords in there and would that not become verbose
...would you also be able to do 3d maps with this having just
seen CityJSON?
<jtandy> (MapBox vector tiles is one response to overly verbose
vector content)
PeterRushforth: web maps are often raster based and we are
sponsoring some work towards vector tiles
...they don't completely solve the issue of users putting maps
on the web.
...vector data has some inherent links and that's why the
vector model should be part of MapML
jtandy: flavour of where this is going and not right forum for
technical discussion, in interests of time how does this
progress?
<MichaelGordon> The team says goodbye and thank you to
ClemensPortele
ScottSimmons: how do you see MapML fit in with OGC standards
like WMTS, WFS etc?
PeterRushforth: already leveraging WMS under MapML (see demo)
...so won't replace OGC web services, and MapML won't be
successful if it has to replace that information - its
objective is to reuse where possible
Jtandy: definitely in the scope of spatial data on the web -
focus on rendering it
...should be on the funnel
tidoust: already on the funnel (checking where it is)
...not in there
jtandy: should be in the funnel - in remit and could go to
standards working group. tidoust: where does it fit?
tidoust: fits in incubation as community group but
investigation because it needs a larger community.
PROPOSED: add MapML to the funnel at the incubation phase
<tidoust> +1
<jtandy> +1
<MichaelGordon> +1
<ChrisLittle> +1
<ScottSimmons> +1
<brinkwoman> +1
<billroberts> +1
Resolved: add MapML to the funnel at the incubation phase
tidoust: could MapML exist as custom extension not natively
supported by browsers
...? we have other things like this musicml etc
jtandy: is there any point in developing it if there's no
pathway to native browser support?
tidoust: goes back to brinkwoman's question on what the
semantics are that are trying to be put on the web
...musicml looks to make music indexable etc as an extension
RobSmith: question of who is going to use it along the way as
extension
tidoust: browser vendors are reluctant to add more media types
jtandy: seperate native browser implementation of map type,
we're left with development with mapml encoding, Peter do you
know how many other organisations that are supporting this and
willing to create implementations? Seems like the biggest
challenge
PeterRushforth: yes it does, could be used by various
technologies - gis, leaflet etc without native browser support.
In and of itself, it embeds map semantics into a hypertext
jtandy: do you know specifically who would support it?
robsmith: or are there specific use cases for it?
jtandy: do we have an understand of value add and who will say
they will implement that?
PeterRushforth: could be adapted to simple leaflet as layer
type and same could be said for openlayers
...it is open source so people need to be paid whilst
implementing it
jtandy: if we want to progress to working group in w3c - we
need 25 organisations to vote for this. Do you know of 25 orgs
in w3c that would support this?
PeterRushforth: Not yet
jtandy: this group can help socialisaiton of the idea
robsmith: approach for doing that could be identifying the use
cases and then approaching those users in that use case to show
the potential benefits
jtandy: Peter do you have a similar set of use cases or user
communities?
PeterRushforth: one of the objectives to lower the requirements
on the HTML authors
...we want everyone to get value from our opendata. We want to
lower the barrier
jtandy: we are trying to find a way the incremental value of
this approach over existing ways, and then use that as message
to persuade people
...that would be a useful discussion - how it is we can
socialise the incremental value of mapml
PeterRushforth: Mapml community group is public so no barrier
to joining
...both maps and HTML are both seen as having value, objective
is bringing those together
jtandy: time to cut off due to time restrictions
...30 mins past finish time
tidoust: lets postpone that discussion
jtandy: is there a holding place for funnel ideas?
tidoust: Exploration space - anyone can put stuff there
jtandy: if we know of things that are pending such as map
accessibility then lets create issues there so when we do
plenary we can look at candidates
...tidoust are you able to create issues for those?
Action: tidoust to create candidate issues for funnel
jtandy: with that part of discussion postponed it would be
useful to do an AOB. Ways forward with how we're organised,
stats BP, spatial BP, SNN/SOSA errata and funnel. Anyone?
ScottSimmons: Critical at this time work queued up for work in
either organisations, summary for ogc would be highly useful.
Think we're making progress, would like to see more things come
through and be assigned to OGC working groups to allow for
scaling of work
jtandy: we've already said that we want to do a 5 min slot at
Orlean TC - would that material be good start to discussion
ScottSimmons: yes and I'd allocate more to planning committee
jtandy: would you invite myself or brinkwoman to present at PC
to attend for that discussion?
...the funnel will exist plus the presentation given to the TC
ScottSimmons: that would be good
jtandy: anything from w3c?
tidoust: happy with the progress and renewed enthusiasm in this
group, funnels and roadmaps plus dinner on geonovum
Action: jtandy to present at Orleans PC
<trackbot> Created ACTION-384 - Present at orleans pc [on
Jeremy Tandy - due 2018-02-27].
ChrisLittle: now we have a funnel - I could use that for a
temporal ontology to look to progress this
Action: ChrisLittle to write a paragraph on this and put an
issue in for temporal ontology
<trackbot> Created ACTION-385 - Write a paragraph on this and
put an issue in for temporal ontology [on Chris Little - due
2018-02-27].
RobSmith: during presentation I showed the explanatory spec -
whilst I would like to share it I'm not sure this is the right
time or forum to share it. What are peoples thoughts?
jtandy: do RobSmith have a website for the spec itself?
RobSmith: only company homepage
jtandy: reticent to do this because it's hard to comment on.
More than welcome to get a sub folder in interest group as a
placeholder there
tidoust: or could create own github repo
jtandy: have a think about best place to do this not on company
homepage
RobSmith: putting it under the IG does gives a focus on it
jtandy: RobSmith please could you work with tidoust to create
the right folders
brinkwoman: just wanted to thank for group coming here
jtandy: thanks Geonovum and brinkwoman for wonderful hosting
<MichaelGordon> Jtandy closes the meeting
<ChrisLittle> bye
Received on Wednesday, 21 February 2018 09:26:25 UTC