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[minutes] Spatial Data on the Web IG F2F - Day 2/2

From: Francois Daoust <fd@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 10:26:06 +0100
To: <public-sdwig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <01ec01d3aaf6$04fef1d0$0efcd570$@w3.org>
Hi,

The minutes of the second day of the Spatial Data on the Web IG F2F in Amersfoort are available at:
https://www.w3.org/2018/02/20-sdw-minutes.html
... and copied as raw text below.

Summary of Resolutions taken during the meeting:
1. Re. SSN issues, idea is to: continue disussion, find resolutions on GitHub, collect solutions in a separate. Note Solutions may be implemented in a separate ontology files. Eventually this may lead to the chartering of a new SSN WG if there's enough material.
2. Add Video Geotagging Protocol For Electronic Maps to the funnel
3. Add CityJSON to the funnel in the incubation phase
4. add MapML to the funnel at the incubation phase

Summary of Action Items:
1. François to migrate the errata document to the GitHub repository
2. tidoust to create candidate issues for funnel
3. jtandy to present at Orleans PC
4. ChrisLittle to write a paragraph on this and put an issue in for temporal ontology

Thanks,
Francois

-----
Spatial Data on the Web IG F2F - Day 2/2
20 February 2018

   [2]Agenda [3]IRC log

      [2] https://www.w3.org/2017/sdwig/meetings/f2f-1.html
      [3] https://www.w3.org/2018/02/20-sdw-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Armin Haller, Bill Roberts, Chris Little, Clemens
          Portele, Francois Daoust, Hugo Ledoux, Jeremy Tandy,
          Linda van den Brink, Maxime Lefranc, Michael Gordon,
          Peter Rushforth, Raul Garcia Castro, Rob Smith, Scott
          Simmons, Simon Cox

   Chair
          Linda, Jeremy

   Scribe
          Clemens Portele, Michael Gordon, Francois Daoust

Contents

     * [4]Meeting Minutes
         1. [5]SSN issues
              1. [6]Pull request https://github.com/w3c/sdw/pull/
                 982 fixing typos and wrong links
              2. [7]Pull request https://github.com/w3c/sdw/pull/
                 1000 in response to https://github.com/w3c/sdw/
                 issues/998 and https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/
                 999
              3. [8]Proposal https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/
                 1004 to include hasUltimateFeatureOfInterest for
                 the property-chain ( sosa:hasFeatureOfInterest o
                 sosa:isSampleOf )
              4. [9]Proposal https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/
                 1006 to move hasProperty from SSN to SOSA
                 namespace
         2. [10]Stats on the Web BP
         3. [11]Back to the Spatial Data on the Web Best Practices
         4. [12]Video Geotagging format for Electronic Maps
         5. [13]CityJSON
         6. [14]MapML
     * [15]Summary of Action Items
     * [16]Summary of Resolutions

Meeting Minutes

SSN issues

Pull request [17]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/pull/982 fixing typos and
wrong links

     [17] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/pull/982

   Armin: I was wondering whether I can accept the pull request
   right away. What's the process. Do we need to update the Note?

   Francois: [explains the process, difficult to update the
   Recommendation, errata document, possibility to update the
   Editor's Draft in whatever way we want]

   SimonCox: There's nothing that stops us from making any change
   in the Editor's Draft. The issue is that nothing that we do in
   the Editor's Draft would stand any chance of going into the
   Recommendation

   Francois: Right, the IG is not chartered to make normative
   changes to the document.
   ... The Editor's Draft is supposedly owned by the IG

   Armin: OK, we'll get back to that. So I can approve the pull
   request here.

   Jeremy: No objection.

   Armin: OK, merged.

Pull request [18]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/pull/1000 in response to
[19]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/998 and [20]https://github.com/
w3c/sdw/issues/999

     [18] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/pull/1000
     [19] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/998
     [20] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/999

   Armin: Hard to follow what the actual changes are, because the
   serialization changed. What's the proposed changes in SOSA/SSN?

   mlefranc: Actually, I just added the RDF/XML serializations so
   that we keep track of them from now on.
   ... The pull request implements a fix in SSN DUL
   ... Generation of the files done with Protégé
   ... Issue #998 is harder to fix.
   ... If you're loading the SSNX ontology in a reasoner, you
   wouldn't be able to add an individual to those classes. Issue
   explains it all.
   ... I just relaxed axioms (1) and (2).
   ... sosa:hasValue now subProperty of oldssn:hasValue, same for
   sosa:hasResult
   ... The only thing that is implemented in the pull request is
   to track the changes in the errata.
   ... Third issue is that there is a disjunction between
   ssn:Property and sosa:FeatureOfInterest
   ... I think the reason why there is an unsatisfiability is that
   we need to relax a couple of other axioms.
   ... I remember doing it back in April last year, but things
   changed afterwards and that fell through the cracks.

   <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to confirm that the “complete” files
   are just adding an RDF/XML encoding of existing material?

   jtandy: The complete files added in there are just RDF/XML
   encodings of stuff that were already in there?

   mlefranc: This is the equivalent to the Turtle document.
   ... No base URI in the versions online, this new version keeps
   the base URI.

   jtandy: You talk about relaxing axioms. Is that backward
   compatible?
   ... If a document conformed with the previous set of axioms,
   does it still conform to the new one?

   <SimonCox_> 'conform' has no real meaning in RDF ...

   <arminhaller> not inconsistent

   mlefranc: Yes.
   ... A valid ontology with the previous document is still a
   valid ontology with the new one.

   arminhaller: My understanding is that we need to list the
   changes in the errata document.

   <tidoust> [21]Errata document

     [21] https://www.w3.org/2017/10/vocab-ssn-errata.html

   Francois: Question is whether we're talking about normative
   changes, or fixes to the spec. We'll need to add an entry to
   the errata document. The fix itself can be incorporated in the
   Editor's Draft.

   mlefranc: It affects a non-normative section.

   jtandy: So, that's all good. That falls within the scope of the
   IG.
   ... We cannot update the published Recommendation, but it can
   go straight in the errata, and we can update the Editor's Draft

   mlefranc: A confirmation email would be good

   brinkwoman: What about ontology files? Can they be updated?

   Francois: Yes, no problem. My responsibility is to keep them in
   sync with what the spec says, but there are no official process
   we need to follow, we can update these files whenever we want.

   <tidoust> [Some discussion on where the errata document lies.
   Armin and Jeremy would prefer the document to appear in the
   GitHub repository. Francois will move it there]

Proposal [22]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/1004 to include
hasUltimateFeatureOfInterest for the property-chain (
sosa:hasFeatureOfInterest o sosa:isSampleOf )

     [22] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/1004

   Action: François to migrate the errata document to the GitHub
   repository

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-383 - Migrate the errata document to
   the github repository [on François Daoust - due 2018-02-27].

   <SimonCox_> This diagram summarizes [23]https://github.com/w3c/
   sdw/issues/1004#issuecomment-363990213

     [23] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/1004#issuecomment-363990213

   jtandy: Great, then we can integrate the change to the errata
   document in the pull request and merge

   SimonCox: The proposal is to make a substantive change to add
   an ultimateFeatureOfInterest.
   ... Clearly, this is beyond the scope of the Interest Group.
   ... However, I'm bringing this now. Is it possible for the IG
   to publish new axioms in a different namespace, as a W3C Note?
   ... What kind of artifacts can the IG publish?

   Francois: The Charter envisions the possibility to create a
   separate Note, so that's perfectly ok.

   SimonCox: Wondering if we can reuse the same namespace, or
   whether we need another one. Making changes in the SOSA
   namespace may not be possible.

   mlefranc: From what I can tell, I don't see any problem with
   adding a new document to the SOSA/SSN namespace.
   ... Maybe an external module defined in a separate document.

   jtandy: In terms of the namespace, so long as it doesn't change
   how the rest of the spec works, I believe it's just a slightly
   bigger version of what we've just been talking about.
   ... People can ignore this extension.

   SimonCox: It does not disrupt anything, right.

   jtandy: The complementary document that would describe this
   extension would be published on the side.

   arminhaller: We are allowed to create a new Note that defines
   hasUltimateFeatureOfInterest. And we could create an ontology
   file that imports the SSN ontology and adds the property. Is
   that correct?

   <SimonCox_> That is what I heard
   ... That new file would use the same namespace.

   jtandy: That's my understanding.

   SimonCox: Moving onto part 2 of my question, take a look at my
   diagram, and let me know what you think

   arminhaller: I suggest to park it for now, and discuss that now
   that we know what we can do from a process perspective.

   RaulGarciaCastro: To increase the adoption of the SSN ontology,
   publishing a separate document is confusing. I would collect
   issues and possible solutions, but would not publish other
   non-normative documents
   ... For us, it might be clear, but for other people it would be
   very confusing.
   ... When we have a number of issues, we can start writing a
   Note.

   SimonCox: Now we're getting on tactics and minuting. This
   proposal was prompted by feedback from people using the
   ontology.
   ... Someone contacted me saying she found it hard to use the
   SSN ontology because it was missing that feature. Hence the
   proposal to solve this. If there are barriers to adoption that
   can be solved by amendments like this, we should remove these
   barriers. People in the community would more easily adopt the
   ontology with these changes.

   jtandy: It seems better to add extensions in a controlled
   namespace than having everyone publish extensions everywhere.

   SimonCox: Right.

   RaulGarciaCastro: We can propose solutions as an Interest
   Group. We shouldn't create a new version. Unless we plan to
   publish a new Note every year, but that's confusing.

   arminhaller: We know the process now. We may need to come to a
   resolution on what we're going to do. How we will implement
   this Note. What I hear is that we want the Note, but the
   question remains as to whether we also provide the
   implementation in terms of an ontology file.
   ... Next issue also somehow relates to a process issue

Proposal [24]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/1006 to move
hasProperty from SSN to SOSA namespace

     [24] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/1006

   arminhaller: Just wanted to quickly raise that issue. We
   discussed that issue for quite a long time initially.
   ... In the very beginning, the decision was made that we keep
   specific properties but that generic properties would be
   confusing.
   ... The difference here is that this would be a change to the
   normative part, which is not possible.
   ... Assuming we would agree on this, what this would mean is
   that the term would move from SSN to SOSA. It could make it
   into the Note. We could create an ontology file that imports
   the SOSA ontology.
   ... And defines the term. The SSN ontology would deprecate that
   term.
   ... That's a different issue, because it touches on normative
   parts of the document.
   ... That could be done in a companion note

   <SimonCox_> Would you also say sosa:hasProperty
   owl:equivalentProperty ssn:hasProperty . ?

   mlefranc: I would be in favour of what has been proposed.
   Ironically, we would end up with two documents that end up
   defining terms in the same SOSA namespace.

   <Zakim> tidoust, you wanted to mention the possibility to
   re-charter a WG

   <SimonCox_> mlefranc identifies a technical
   packaging/publishing issue but I'm relaxed about that

   Francois: It's always possible to re-create a WG to publish a
   second version of the SSN Recommendation. That would make
   things cleaner from a normative perspective. Or the document
   could be put in scope of an existing WG if we can find one.

   jtandy: So idea here is to move a term defined in the complex
   namespace to the simple namespace.

   arminhaller: Yes, but we don't have a resolution here. We can
   continue the discussion on GitHub. If we end up with a
   resolution on GitHub, we can think of creating a separate Note,
   then a separate ontology file, and then decide whether we can
   work on a new version of the SSN spec.

   jtandy: OK, so continue the discussions. Collect issues and
   propose solutions in a Note, and then consider whether this
   warrants the chartering of a WG

   SimonCox: I'm concerned we're proceeding over Raul's objection

   RaulGarciaCastro: I'm fine so far

   jtandy: Armin, do you want a resolution on how we proceed?

   arminhaller: Continue disussion. Find resolutions on GitHub.
   Collect solutions in a separate Note. May work on separate
   ontology files. Eventually may lead to the chartering of a new
   SSN WG if there's enough material.

   PROPOSED: Re. SSN issues, idea is to: continue disussion, find
   resolutions on GitHub, collect solutions in a separate Note.
   Solutions may be implemented in a separate ontology files.
   Eventually this may lead to the chartering of a new SSN WG if
   there's enough material.

   <jtandy> +1

   <RaulGarciaCastro> +1

   <brinkwoman> +1

   <SimonCox_> +1

   <arminhaller> +1

   <tidoust> +1

   <mlefranc> +1

   <billroberts> +1

   <RobSmith> +1

   +1

   <MichaelGordon> +1

   Resolved: Re. SSN issues, idea is to: continue disussion, find
   resolutions on GitHub, collect solutions in a separate Note.
   Solutions may be implemented in a separate ontology files.
   Eventually this may lead to the chartering of a new SSN WG if
   there's enough material.

   jtandy: The knock-on from that is that you will work on finding
   a consensus on the two issues that you have on GitHub.

   arminhaller: Yes.
   ... On a different front, the outstanding issue around starting
   our SSN primer, haven't started yet. Busy time of the year. I
   will kick things off next week hopefully.
   ... Happy that we've made progress on the pressing issues on
   SSN.

   <RaulGarciaCastro> jtandy Which day do you have the slot?

   jtandy: Thank you Armin. I would note that we have a small slot
   on the plenary of the OGC Technical Committee in Orleans next
   week. If you want Linda to raise the SSN Primer there, just
   tell us, and provide some material.

   <mlefranc> thanks, bye !

   <SimonCox_> bye

   <RaulGarciaCastro> Bye

   <ChrisLittle> bye

   <arminhaller> thanks, bye!

Stats on the Web BP

   See <billroberts> [25]agenda for Stats on the Web BP

     [25] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/meetings/stats-bp-agenda.md

   billroberts: Want to clarify what we're aiming to do, and what
   we're not, especially because it's potentially a very large
   subject.
   ... I'd like to gather existing work that we should consider.
   ... And then get on some consistent way of doing things.
   ... Obviously, we're working within the Spatial Data on the Web
   IG, so we should pay particular attention on the intersection
   between statistical data and spatial data.
   ... It's "on the Web" as well.
   ... Also, what do we mean by statistics. Government data, but
   also scientific statistics, such as meteorological data.
   ... Are there other types of data that we should take into
   account?
   ... I think it should be narrower than "all data", but most
   data has some statistical component.

   ChrisLittle: We don't want to reinvent wheels. What is
   distinctive for statistical data compared to regular data on
   the Web? That's the key thing

   <billroberts> Evangelos - looks like our phone connection has
   dropped - just dialling in again

   <billroberts> we are back but looks like you have gone -
   hopefully you can rejoin soon

   ChrisLittle: One of the ways of finding the distinction is by
   looking at the existing best practices to identify requirements
   that are clearly specific to statistical data.

   MichaelGordon: Do we feel that we have the mandate to look at
   statistical data in general, or at statistical data in relation
   with spatial data?

   ChrisLittle: I think that restricting to geospatial data, we
   might be missing something. So actually, I think we should look
   broadly initially.
   ... That's the reason why I raised a use case about time.

   billroberts: Also, I have the feeling that it does not narrow
   it that much.
   ... Most characteristics should be similar. Geospatial data
   actually extend the scope.

   MichaelGordon: I was more thinking of narrowing down the range.
   Also lack of authority among participants perhaps

   ChrisLittle: If you look at the main difference between data on
   the web and spatial data on the web best practices, that's the
   CRS.

   <billroberts> [26]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/
   public-sdwig/2018Jan/0048.html

     [26] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdwig/2018Jan/0048.html

   billroberts: Andrea went through the list of data on the Web
   best practices, see email.
   ... A structure for a best practices document could be to
   follow the Data on the Web Best Practices document, and extend
   each section with "if you're dealing with statistical data..."

   jtandy: Initially, we thought we'd do that for Spatial Data on
   the Web, but then decided against it.
   ... In some cases, nothing to add. Also, it started with
   metadata and we did not want to emphasize that first in the
   Spatial Data on the Web Best Practices
   ... For sure, you should go through the best practices and
   check whether we want to add something or not.
   ... All data on the Web Best Practices apply.
   ... You may want to add extra things.

   brinkwoman: Did Andrea find anything missing yet?

   billroberts: It's just a starting point for discussion right
   now.
   ... The "on the Web" bit is also where we can come up with
   advice.
   ... Current practice in the UK for government data is that
   figures will come up every year, published as a PDF document
   accompanied by a couple of spreadsheets. That's how it gets
   done right now.
   ... Lack of machine readable access to it. Lack of
   interoperability between different publishers.
   ... That's an example of an area where we could point out best
   practices.
   ... In the scientific sector, it could be large files, probably
   more machine-readable, but subsetting it is difficult.

   ChrisLittle: That's one aspect. Also about understanding what
   the data is.
   ... For instance, wind speeds, you may use them, but not
   realize that it's a mean wind speed, and that there are
   extremes as well that the data do not convey.

   billroberts: Adding URIs to this data allows you to associate
   definitions.

   ChrisLittle: Standard controls and vocabularies. Don't invent
   your own definition of arithmetic mean.

   billroberts: Also, if you find multiple properties that match
   what you wnat to expose, how to choose?

   ChrisLittle: The authority might be important. The authority
   might exist but data has not been updated in 20 years

   jtandy: When we started the work on SDW BP, we thought we'd
   have a lot to say about ontologies, but then there was not to
   say in the end. Just "look at your community" in essence.
   ... Also, the CSV on the Web work. One of the key motivation
   for that is people publishing statistical data in spreadsheets.
   ... Quite a lot of material in CSV on the Web demonstrating
   statistical data.

   <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to mention CSVW

   billroberts: I mentioned in the agenda examples of works we're
   aware of.
   ... It's not that we need to produce a comprehensive list.

   <jtandy> CSV on the Web Primer: [27]https://www.w3.org/TR/
   tabular-data-primer/
   ... The way that we could take those into account.
   ... One problem is we haven't got any proper statistician in
   this group. We want to make sure that our output gets reviewed
   by experts.
   ... I've been getting in touch with a few people, UK stats.
   ... Linda managed to get someone from the Dutch bureau of
   statistics.

     [27] https://www.w3.org/TR/tabular-data-primer/

   ChrisLittle: Also look at ICSU (possibly CoData)

   billroberts: Best to take actions to engage people. Happy to
   check with statistical government agencies.
   ... SDMX people as well, been discussing with someone.

   RobSmith: Would it make sense to contact Geovation as well?
   ... Looking at WiFi and buses, presumably they have
   statisticians looking at data

   MichaelGordon: The Geovation crowd themselves probably does not
   do that directly.

   billroberts: Good group to engage through other UK based
   communities

   jtandy: I remember that Kerry Taylor did some presentation
   about stats in Australia

   billroberts: Yes, used to work with the Australian Bureau of
   Statistics. I believe Jo works with them now

   billroberts: Looking at our work program now

   <billroberts> [28]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/
   stats-bp/work-plan.md
   ... I proposed the work plan. No objection.
   ... By the end of this month, we should aim to have a first
   version of the use cases document.
   ... That's not entirely unfeasible. I don't think that will be
   a closed document.
   ... Then I was proposing to turn these use cases into
   requirements by the end of March.
   ... Merge the two by end of April, and then draft best
   practices.

     [28] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/stats-bp/work-plan.md

   jtandy: I think we spent too much time on use cases before
   doing the spatial data on the web best practices
   ... I would not try to finish use cases upfront. I would do
   things in parallel.
   ... You lose nothing going through the Data on the Web Best
   Practices.
   ... It will stimulate you in finding use cases, actually.
   ... Is statistical data special for each one? That's a good
   filter.

   ChrisLittle: Right. We should simply add a couple of use cases
   to the document to have something slightly more complete in
   terms of coverage.

   jtandy: First Public Working Draft really just shows that
   you've started working, doesn't have to be finished or
   polished.
   ... The more finished it looks, the fewer people will come and
   help you.

   ChrisLittle: Putting controversial things in there can actually
   help getting feedback

   jtandy: A regular release schedule proved useful. An iterative
   approach.
   ... It helps focus the minds of people involved in the work.

   brinkwoman: It would be nice if you have a list of best
   practices that you want to write in the right order
   beforehands.

   Francois: I was about to suggest the opposite in a way. Don't
   worry about the order to start with. Just keep in mind that the
   order will change, so make it easy to do so and don't spend
   time on intro text.

   billroberts: OK, I will revise that draft document accordingly.

   <tidoust> [side discussion on the order of best practices. You
   have to see the draft list to have a feeling of what will be
   possible]

   jtandy: The current order in the SDW best practices can be
   applicable to statistical data. You may have extra things to
   look at though.
   ... Some things we wrote in Web principle best practices were
   written because they were missing from the Data on the Web Best
   Practices, which could not easily be updated.

   Discussion in 2017: [29]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/
   BP_2017_reordering_proposal
   ... Question as to whether you reproduce them or reference them

     [29] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_2017_reordering_proposal

   jtandy: Looking at the first best practice, we were willing to
   have people think in terms of giving an identifier to a real
   postbox.
   ... Not sure that applies to statistical data.

   billroberts: Statistical data will have a reference to a
   spatial thing most of the time.

   ChrisLittle: You also have the concept of a sample, which is a
   subset of your population.

   jtandy: All of our dimensions should be uniquely identified in
   other words

   billroberts: Yes.

   jtandy: So going through the existing best practices is useful
   to identify what to say for statistical data

   brinkwoman: Is it possible that additional best practices for
   Spatial Data on the Web will pop up during discussions?

   ChrisLittle: possibly

   RobSmith: You touched on modeling. Simulated data vs. actual
   data.

   billroberts: A big area that Chris is highlighting. What you
   are measuring.
   ... SDMX has the mechanism but people do not use it a lot. What
   your statistical measure is.
   ... Is a mean, median, percentile? What was the sampling
   approach? What was the population you were sampling from?
   ... Lots of surveys. How were they designed? How did you choose
   the people you asked?
   ... How did you correct the values to take the rest of the
   population into account?
   ... With a URI, you can link back to a methodology document.

   jtandy: That's a good start.

   ClemensPortele: Wondering about the liaison with the Semantic
   Statistics Community Group. The CG seems dead

   Francois: Evangelos represents that group here.

   billroberts: Essentially, the group has done nothing. But
   people in the group are active in the field.

   kalampokis: All the people who are currently in the group are
   working on publishing and reusing statistical data using linked
   data technologies.
   ... They say that they are interested in having discussions.
   ... I will send an email to coordinate. Whether we want to have
   a parallel discussion in the CG or have the discussion in the
   IG directly is up for discussion.
   ... I can help with coordination.

   billroberts: Maybe a good way to do it is to ask them a
   specific question. Once we have a draft document, "what do you
   think of this?" rather than "please engage".

   kalampokis: I agree

   billroberts: Any other comment?

   jtandy: Is the motivation to check an existing body of work and
   encourage people to share the same approach, or are you trying
   to identify a wider pool of best practices that you believe
   should apply?

   billroberts: My objective is to get different publisher doing
   it in a more compatible way.
   ... Bringing good expertise is one aspect of it.
   ... The reason I care about interoperability is that the data
   would have more value, which in turn would mean that people
   would have more incentive to publish data.

   jtandy: So, you have working practice and you hope to identify
   other working practices and find some harmony among these.

   billroberts: To what extent do we document practices followed
   vs. recommendations for new practices?

   Francois: That question always comes up in best practices
   groups. No real answer. "If there's no solution, that means
   there's no problem" (copyright Shadoks)

   jtandy: The CG must be able to identify examples that they're
   working on, and other sources.
   ... That makes me think of an interesting question: the
   statistician will be the ones working with the data published,
   not the ones publishing data.

   ChrisLittle: I think it's too simple to say that the document
   is targeting publishers only. Need to take a user perspective.

   jtandy: Looking back at Spatial Data on the Web Best Practices,
   we decided not to write best practices on how you might
   consume, or reuse your data.

   billroberts: Statisticians are often responsible for the data
   that gets published

   Francois: One of the best practices could actually be to
   publish raw data along with the analyzed data so that other
   analyses can be made on the data.

   <tidoust> [discussion on anonymizing data]

   MichaelGordon: Does that bring some requirement about reversal
   of data? If you're publishing statistical data, choosing
   appropriate anonymisation techniques (considering the GDPR)

   <jtandy> (We talked about being able to trace from an aggregate
   dataset to the raw dataset, e.g. using PROV, where the raw data
   )

   billroberts: That's a good question. I'd like to refer to
   things where that's been considered.
   ... It's a big deal in government data: the methodology you
   used to anonymize the data.

   <jtandy> (Cont... raw data may not be published online, e.g.
   because it is not anonymous / personal data)

   RobSmith: I looked at privacy issue when we published a
   personal tracker on the phone. I haven't thought of revealing
   something else. Example of the military bases with joggers
   data.

   jtandy: In terms of what you want people to do with analytical
   data. Are you expecting people to do statistical analyses
   online or to take their own copy and work offline?

   billroberts: At the moment, it's more an offline model.
   ... There is a question of easy access to the latest data, and
   the ability to make subsets.
   ... One of the best practices we had for spatial data was about
   supporting different formats to ease reuse. This will apply
   here as well.
   ... You'll want to facilitate downloads in different formats.

   jtandy: Don't assume that one format is enough was one of our
   assumptions. Also applies here.

   billroberts: Yes.
   ... Sometimes, people need a clear definition of what the terms
   are, sometimes, they don't care. Being able to ignore that info
   when not needed and find that info when needed is useful.

   Francois: One side point that publishing the Use cases &
   requirements document as a First Public Working Draft is not
   required per se. Can remain a document on GitHub, or you can
   fold it into the Best Practices document to start with.

   jtandy: That's fine if you can cross-reference the use cases
   with a permanent identifier in the end

   Francois: Right, what I mean is that you don't have to follow a
   specific order. That can be done later on, as needed. Still a
   good practice to publish a FPWD before publishing a Note, even
   though the process allows to publish a Note directly.

   <billroberts> [30]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/
   stats-bp/draft-use-case-list.md

     [30] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/stats-bp/draft-use-case-list.md

   billroberts: OK. Final thing I wanted to talk is our list of
   use cases
   ... It would be interesting to get suggestions about use cases
   that we don't have. Also about styles.

   ChrisLittle: And whether we need a formal structure.
   ... Certainly my use cases, I can turn them into requirements,
   and write a use case scenario.

   billroberts: Seems useful to provide a bit of context to people
   who are not experts

   MichaelGordon: It provides the "why" it is important.

   Francois: The why will appear in the Best Practices. Need to
   strike a right balance between spending time on use cases and
   on the best practices. Should probably be skewed towards the
   best practices. Iterative process.

   billroberts: Rough summary of what's in here so far.

   <billroberts> Evangelos: we are presenting and talking over
   [31]https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/stats-bp/
   draft-use-case-list.md

     [31] https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/stats-bp/draft-use-case-list.md

   ChrisLittle: First one is about representing statistical
   parameters.
   ... I see people still inventing conventions for describing
   parameters

   billroberts: Always about the definition of what you're
   measuring.

   ChrisLittle: Sometimes, it's hidden in the unit, other times in
   the name, other times in an extra attribute.
   ... In fact, 25 years ago, we mixed all 3.

   <jtandy> The statistical measures that Chris mentions are
   published as linked data here: [32]http://codes.wmo.int/grib2/
   codeflag/4.10

     [32] http://codes.wmo.int/grib2/codeflag/4.10

   billroberts: Right, it should be clear for everyone what a
   particular number represents.
   ... GRIB2 Code Table 4.10

   ChrisLittle: This was the problem we had, and this is the
   approach we took. Requirement is along the lines of a standard
   mechanism of annotating.

   jtandy: One of the things you wanted to do was to reference
   vocabularies.
   ... One of the challenges is to relate the notion of average in
   different domains.

   ChrisLittle: Next use case is around representing temporal
   data.
   ... Aggregating values per month for instance, where months
   don't have the same number of days.

   <tidoust> jtandy: Daily minimum probably goes from 8:00am to
   8:00am for instance.

   ChrisLittle: Exactly, and the minimum could be before midnight,
   which might upset people.

   <tidoust> [discussion on possible mechanisms]

   billroberts: Next use cases on area profile. Some kind of
   collection of data for a school to decide whether to send your
   child to it or not.
   ... A lot of it is around good identifiers for places and
   discovery of data, trust of sources.

   MichaelGordon: example of policy makers. Simple tool made to
   compare e.g. employment rate in different cities. And then
   refinements.

   billroberts: A lot of local authorities spend a lot of time
   doing this.
   ... Can we understand the data enough to compare it?
   ... Finding places by criteria
   ... Next one is about slicing and dicing a statistical data
   cube.
   ... Very commonly, you want to arrange a subset including
   possible values on a given dimension.

   <jtandy> [33]https://github.com/w3c/csvw/blob/gh-pages/
   examples/rdf-data-cube-example.md

     [33] https://github.com/w3c/csvw/blob/gh-pages/examples/rdf-data-cube-example.md

   jtandy: The RDF data cube example I wrote for CSV on the Web
   could perhaps be relevant here.
   ... It shows how we constructed the metadata that goes with the
   CSV to create an RDF data cube.
   ... This particular dataset was human processed. Other stuff
   happen upstream to this.

   billroberts: Some use cases about sharing identifiers.
   Consistent identifiers. Somebody has to manage these codes.

   jtandy: Is that not a generic practice about publishing data?

   ClemensPortele: That's what I was thinking too.

   billroberts: Maybe nothing specific to statistical data.
   ... Usually done well for geographical areas, and badly for
   everything else. Things would be a lot more interoperable if
   people did that better.

   ClemensPortele: When I look at the area profile use case, you
   need to bring things together which supposes common
   vocabularies.

   jtandy: The use case is to use data because they understand how
   to aggregate it.

   billroberts: It's not a technically complex thing, but social
   issues usually stand in the way.

   <tidoust> [looking at "registers" in the UK]

   billroberts: Also use case for publishers. When you're
   preparing the data, you need to be able to identify what the
   right identifiers are for your data. Maybe same use case
   ... Another one that has come up in various forms is provision
   estimates. Statistical organizations usually improve on
   published data after an initial publication. Example of GDP
   data.
   ... 3 estimates of GDP in the UK for instance.
   ... You might end up with 3 different values for the same
   thing.

   ChrisLittle: Same concept in meteorological where we label data
   with Level 0, Level 1, and Level 2.

   MichaelGordon: Requirement is about being able to version a
   statistical set of data that you may be publishing

   billroberts: Yes.

   jtandy: Already covered by existing best practices

   <billroberts> Evangelos - just re-starting webex here

   Francois: In the end, instead of new best practices, you might
   end up with techniques to apply best practices to statistical
   data. That would be a fine document too.

   billroberts: Another use case about comparing data across
   countries.

   jtandy: In the CSV on the Web work, that is one of the use
   cases that motivated Jeni's work.

   billroberts: Comparison of geographical data. Specific case of
   an existing best practice
   ... The next one is too broad, because it encompasses all
   others. Represent statistical quantities in RDF.
   ... Here are examples of data we have, how to represent them?
   ... OK, that's kind of where we are at the moment.

   Francois: Previous discussion on data anonymization and
   publication of raw dataset could be turned into a use case too.

   ChrisLittle: People have some data and they want to annotate it
   in some way to identify the uncertainty. That would be a valid
   use case as well.
   ... Both quantitatively and qualitatively

   <tidoust> [example of temperature measurements excluded when
   computing averages for climate change computations, e.g. due to
   someone mowing the lawn nearby]

   billroberts: Probably some data on the Web best practice that
   talks about it.

   <jtandy> ref the project that Jon Blower was involved in about
   annotation metadata ... the CHARMe project: [34]http://
   charme.org.uk

     [34] http://charme.org.uk/

   billroberts: So I've pretty much reached the end of what I
   wanted to touch upon.

   RobSmith: One comment about use cases. I try to think about
   scenarios that are realistic. What I find is that some of the
   details can easily be lost. What I found useful to me was to
   have a list of benefits linked to each use case.
   ... The use case may have more than one benefit.

   <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to ask if the BP template will be
   reused?

   jtandy: Will you use the BP template?

   billroberts: General plan is to follow the same plan,
   essentially yes. Any lessons learned?

   jtandy: I think that would help create a generic feeling across
   the best practices that we write.
   ... Also we reused the benefits from the Data on the Web Best
   practices document

Back to the Spatial Data on the Web Best Practices

   brinkwoman: In one of the calls, I mentioned that it could be a
   good idea to create a tool to do validation or conformance
   testing
   ... We usually do it at Geonovum.
   ... Possibly it's not easy or possible to create an automated
   checker.

   ClemensPortele: My view is that, at this level, it is not
   possible.
   ... Best practices require some interpretation.
   ... You can only do that with specifications.
   ... What might be possible to do is to have a checklist of
   things that you could check.

   Francois: Agree with starting with techniques, a checklist. An
   automated checked is hard to achieve and time consuming, and
   often time boxed (techniques evolve). Example of the mobileOK
   Checker.

   <tidoust> [also question of hosting the service]

   <tidoust> [discussing which best practices are being addressed
   in WFS]

   brinkwoman: It seems it's useful to create a checklist.

   ClemensPortele: Another direction would be to make explicit the
   best practices you follow, but I don't think we're at that
   stage.

   RobSmith: [example of GPX validation when crossing the
   Greenwich meridian, with 1e-04 numbers making the value
   invalid]. Validation is useful.

   <tidoust> [discussing possible validation tests]

   jtandy: (goes through the agenda items for the afternoon)

   <jtandy> [35]https://www.w3.org/2017/sdwig/meetings/f2f-1.html

     [35] https://www.w3.org/2017/sdwig/meetings/f2f-1.html

   jtandy: The goal for the afternoon is to identify the input to
   the funnel (once we have the green light to add to it)

Video Geotagging format for Electronic Maps

   <jtandy> [36]https://www.w3.org/2018/02/
   19-sdw-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary

     [36] https://www.w3.org/2018/02/19-sdw-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary

   jtandy: (reads the five resolutions)
   … only work that goes to a standards track will end up in the
   funnel
   … we have a process in place

   <tidoust> [37]Evaluation phase in the strategy funnel

     [37] https://github.com/w3c/strategy/blob/master/3.Evaluation.md#evaluation

   tidoust: this is the process to decide whether something is
   ready for chartering

   <tidoust> [38]Rec track readiness best practices

     [38] https://www.w3.org/Guide/standards-track/

   tidoust: provides a check list - is there a clear problem
   statement? explicit success criteria? do we have the right
   participants and is there an ecosystem? etc.

   jtandy: That is the re-cap I wanted to go through. Rob, is it
   clear enough to you as the first candidate?

   RobSmith: Yes, it answers my questions. I don't want to waste
   peoples time.
   … The current proposal is at an early stage, currently about 6
   weeks of work from one person. Will it work in a browser?
   … Funding is important, too. Funding application pending. I
   would be interested, to understand early, if there is interest
   in the group.

   tidoust: This goes back to the question of ecosystem and
   participants.

   RobSmith: I gave a short presentation at the last plenary.
   Would it be worth repeating?

   jtandy: Yes, please.

   [39]https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-sdw-minutes.html#x03

     [39] https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-sdw-minutes.html#x03

   [40]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdwig/2018Feb/
   att-0030/WebVMTIntroShort180207.pdf

     [40] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdwig/2018Feb/att-0030/WebVMTIntroShort180207.pdf

   RobSmith: Slides are brief and contain only the main points (10
   minute presentation)

   RobSmith: New slide set has additional detail (12 slides).
   … Work was triggered by a call from OSGB to show the location
   of people in a tv show. Geotagging in pictures is available,
   but not really in videos.
   … Show particular events in the video on a map. Not just the
   location, but also other presentational input (e.g. direction).
   … Also the capability for annotations.

   MichaelGordon: Location and direction are essential also
   essential for AR

   RobSmith: I set up a tech demo for this. Came across the VTT
   mechanism for subtitles on You Tube. Based on a standard.
   … Text-to-speach support. There is an existing mechanism for
   annotations that could also be used as a framework to add
   geospatial information.
   … Did a comparison between photo and video. Standard mechanism
   for photos (exif, many cameras support it out-of-the-box), but
   not for video (except add-on for high-end equipment)
   … But could we use the smartphone (can capture video and has
   sensors for spatial information)

   <PeterRushforth> hi don't have access to webex info, sorry

   tidoust: This may be a reason for not having the information in
   a separate file. Device manufacturers will likely prefer an
   integrated approach.

   RobSmith: I think GoPro records location information in a
   separate text file. But I have not checked in detail.

   <jtandy> [41]https://www.w3.org/TR/web-packaging/

     [41] https://www.w3.org/TR/web-packaging/

   jtandy: Web-packaging may help here

   tidoust: My point was to be careful how to present this.

   RobSmith: An extra file helps to leave MPEG as it is

   MichaelGordon: Does it require hardware manufacturers to
   support it?

   RobSmith: Not necessarily, but it could help
   … you can do it in software "today", and in the hardware
   devices in the future

   jtandy: This is about spatial data on the Web, so this fits our
   mandate

   RobSmith: The idea would not be to support just a single maps
   API (Google Maps, Open Layers, Leaflet), but support multiple
   ones

   ChrisLittle: An abstract spec would help to clarify the
   concepts independent of the implementation and identify
   conformance classes

   RobSmith: Use case examples - coastguard/mountain rescue, area
   survey

   ChrisLittle: Have you considered temporal aspects? E.g. which
   areas have been covered?

   RobSmith: Yes.

   (discussion of work starting in the OGC UAX group)

   tidoust: A key benefit of a standard is to share data, so this
   should be included in the use cases.

   RobSmith: The third use case (swarm monitoring, operating drone
   within a swarm) does this

   RobSmith: This is about enabling the use cases, not providing a
   (closed) solution

   RobSmith: Francois asked the queston how a web app would use
   it.
   … (shows <track> element in a <video> element and a sample
   modified VMT file)

   tidoust: Interesting that you are focussing on rendering, not
   the data itself

   RobSmith: The rendering is important, the line has a particular
   meaning (it is a multilayered problem and we do not have time
   to go into detail)

   tidoust: Is there any relationship to the "describing moving
   objects" deliverable?

   jtandy: No, we have no information yet on that deliverable...

   RobSmith: (shows tech demo)

   RobSmith: Any frame in the video is associated with a map - it
   is synchronised

   jtandy: I think we all agree that fits, it could be for OGC
   and/or W3C, it requires a standard

   PROPOSED: Add Video Geotagging Protocol For Electronic Maps to
   the funnel

   ScottSimmons: There are probably some OGC members that have
   something that is similar, so we should engage them early.

   jtandy: Patent free is also important.

   RobSmith: No issues, I want this as a open standard to see
   adoption.

   billroberts: The evaluation of existing standards would come as
   part of the evaluation process?

   tidoust: Yes!

   <MichaelGordon> +1

   <tidoust> +1

   <jtandy> +1

   <brinkwoman> +1

   <billroberts> +1

   <ScottSimmons> +1

   <RobSmith> +1

   <ChrisLittle> +1

   Resolved: Add Video Geotagging Protocol For Electronic Maps to
   the funnel

   jtandy: This should be added to the first phase (exploration).
   Scott, how should Rob engage with OGC members?

   ScottSimmons: Will do a call for information and reach out to
   some members this/next week

   jtandy: Next plenary call we will include and update on the
   status. Rob can you track those actions?

   RobSmith: Yes

CityJSON

   jtandy: (welcomes Hugo Ledoux)

   Hugo: (shows CityJSON slides)
   … mostly following the OGC work, but not actively involved
   … CityGML - for buildings and much more (basically everything
   inside and outside of cities)
   … 5 levels of detail (LoD)
   … adoption of CityGML not great, software support is limited,
   hard to work with CityGML files
   … I immediately convert it to OBJ to work with it
   … Data model is good, GML encoding hard
   … Some time ago I looked into a JSON encoding for the data.
   Shared on the CityGML list, a mixed reception.

   tidoust: Is license of CityGML an issue?

   MichaelGordon: No, not with the OGC license

   Hugo: Difficult to work for students to work with CityGML
   files, easier with CityJSON
   … Now mapped all the CityGML modules
   … Did it manually and not using an automated encoding rule. The
   reason is the complexity of the conceptual model.
   … Some constraints (e.g., all geometries are in the same CRS)
   … For now left out raster, DTM
   … Added a metadata object
   … Topology is preserved, vertices are referenced from the city
   object geometries
   … Surfaces can have semantics
   … Currently only links within the same file
   … (discusses differences to GeoJSON)
   … some similarities to TopoJSON
   … a JSON schema is available
   … We wrote software to support CityJSON - from the beginning
   … Claus Nagel implemented CityGML <-> CityJSON in citygml4j
   library
   … I do not plan to parse a CityGML file ever again, just
   convert it to CityJSON and use that
   … Important to involve developers early in the process

   jtandy: Questions for Hugo?

   tidoust: I ask stupid questions as I am new to the map aspect,
   look at it from the Web perspective. Some discussion on the
   mailing list.
   … What is the relationship with maps. How does it fit together?

   ChrisLittle: You are a bit restrictive. Map is LoD 0.

   tidoust: Map is not a 2D map for me.

   Hugo: different cities maintain different feature types beside
   buildings (terrain, roads, etc).
   … I prefer to talk about data, not maps, but the data can be
   used for maps etc.

   ChrisLittle: Maps are typically the output of a computation
   using the data

   ChrisLittle: Since you have offended a few people in OGC, would
   you work with them.

   Hugo: Yes, and I like the model of CityGML. CityGML 3 will also
   look at other encodings.

   billroberts: This reminds me about the CoverageJSON discussion
   we had earlier in the SDWWG.

   <jtandy> CoverageJSON: [42]https://covjson.org

     [42] https://covjson.org/

   billroberts: CoverageJSON never got that far due to open
   questions with regard to "webiness" - can you link into it, can
   you break it down into manageable pieces

   Hugo: There is work with using CityJSON in WFS. Currently
   CityJSON is not tailored for the Web, but it may evolve to
   address this.

   jtandy: When you look at CityJSON, does it seem like an
   encoding that could be supported by WFS 3.0?

   ClemensPortele: I don't see that as being mandated by a
   conformance class today, but you could write an extension.

   jtandy: So it would fit in the OGC ecosystem?

   ClemensPortele: Yes!

   <billroberts> CoverageJSON: what I meant to say is that in the
   SDW Working Group we didn't have time to investigate in detail
   about identifiers and API mechanism for easily retrieving
   subsets. For the core use case of CoverageJSON, to have a
   Javascript friendly (and hence web browser friendly)
   representation of coverages, then I think CoverageJSON achieved
   its goals very well

   jtandy: Is it available under an open license? Patents?

   Hugo: It could be made available under an open license. No
   patents.

   jtandy: Why should it be a standard?

   Hugo: Not interested in fighting for it, but a label as a
   standard would help to see adoption by government
   organisations.

   jtandy: Any others beside Claus Nagel and you that would work
   on this?

   Hugo: Not at the moment.

   jtandy: So some community building is needed, not yet ready for
   chartering. Further down the line than the video geotagging.

   jtandy: It would probably fit with OGC due to the closeness
   with CityGML. But visibility for the Web community may be
   relevant, too.

   tidoust: Yes, closer integration with Web Browers would
   indicate that it would fit in W3C, too, but right now this does
   not sound like the main focus.

   Hugo: At least for now. Some concerns that the CityGML
   development is not developer focussed, W3C seems to be more
   developer driven.

   MichaelGordon: One thing that should be discussed in an
   incubation phase are the SDW best practices.

   Hugo: Yes, I welcome input on this.

   tidoust: This could also be an indicator for a joint process.

   PROPOSED: Add CityJSON to the funnel in the incubation phase

   <jtandy> +1

   <brinkwoman> +1

   <tidoust> +1

   <RobSmith> +1

   <billroberts> +1

   +1

   <ChrisLittle> +1 on behalf of Hugo

   <MichaelGordon> +1

   Resolved: Add CityJSON to the funnel in the incubation phase

   jtandy: What do you need for the next phase?

   Hugo: Feedback from a Web perspective. How to deal with large
   files. All discussions should occur on the GitHub repository.

   (agreement to continue using the GitHub repository)

   jtandy: Are the issues registered as issues on GitHub?

   Hugo: Not yet, but I will add them.

   brinkwoman: Should Rob and Hugo join the IG as an invited
   expert?

   tidoust: It would be good. I will work with them on this.

MapML

   jtandy: We want to find out how and where MapML fits.

   PeterRushforth: The Maps for HTML CG started as a result of the
   W3C/OGC workshop in London in 2014.
   … Wouldn't it be good to use as an HTML author just a regular
   HTML element to put a map on a web page?
   … In 2014 I had a mandate to work on this as looking for
   support to the idea. We made some progress since then,
   including developer resources in a GitHub organisation.
   … Map Markup Language is the key specification I am going to
   talk about today.

   <brinkwoman> [43]https://maps4html.github.io/MapML/spec/

     [43] https://maps4html.github.io/MapML/spec/

   PeterRushforth: MapML is a "DOMable" format.
   … Oriented towards browser-developers, not web-developers.
   … Extend the HTML to support maps in the traditional web
   mapping sense. Building on top of the "image map" concept from
   HTML, i.e. a more general <map> element.

   <ScottSimmons> Scott is back - sorry, much worse roads than I
   had hoped

   PeterRushforth: The draft makes use of Web Components and
   specifies a customized <map> element. A draft implementation
   exists.
   … (shows JavaScript implementation demo)
   … NRCan uses MapML, mainly in demos
   … (demonstrates adding an additional layer to a map)
   … In OGC Testbed 13 both conceptual work on MapML (Engineering
   Report) and another implementation.
   … Could bring maps closer to the W3C community.
   … Less interest in Testbed 14 than I hoped for.
   … This is the state of MapML at the moment.
   … Why should it be standard? The barrier to use spatial
   information on the Web is currently to high. Requires
   programming, which is out of reach for many.
   … Interest by developers including from JavaScript Map API
   developers (e.g. Leaflet)

   ChrisLittle: You mentioned missing bits...

   PeterRushforth: Two examples: A capability to modify/add the
   content -> form-processing. Feature content is unpredictable
   (e.g. elements within <properties> are unknown to a client) ->
   capability to add semantics using microdata.

   jtandy: Why microdata?

   PeterRushforth: Not so much microdata than HTML. Similar to
   itemscope/schema.org, leverage mainstream.

   MichaelGordon: How extensible is MapML? JavaScript Map APIs
   allow extensions, can MapML support this and has hooks for such
   extensions?

   PeterRushforth: MapML intends to be HTML for maps, so not
   extensible per se and somewhat rigid. Markup is content
   oriented, styling uses CSS.
   … HTML is extensible using JavaSript, there yould be something
   similar in MapML where scripts could be used to provide
   extensibility.
   … (shows MapML document)
   … (Shows URL template mechanism - added in Testbed 13)

   MichaelGordon: Is indexing by search engines an advantage?
   Probably more code for MapML than a Leaflet script required

   PeterRushforth: Yes, but this is declarative and has a clearer
   semantics.
   … Semantics of the map is obscured by the JavaScript, clearer
   in a media type

   tidoust: Still unclear about the definition of "map". At one
   point a sequence of layers, in the MapML example layer does not
   exist.
   … Related to this: Did you have contact with browser vendors?

   PeterRushforth: Abstract concept of a map is 2d and supports
   mesh-up. The MapML example essentially is a map layer.
   … The browser developer community is tough to interact. This
   proposal is a bit coming out of nowhere for them.
   … The only way that maps become part of HTML is that the map
   community comes together.
   … Browser developers look at adoption by web developers, but
   this is not about replacing the existing JavaScript Map APIs.

   <MichaelGordon> scribenick MichaelGordon

   RobSmith: 1) Accessible not just for programmers, which is a
   good selling point,though might be a hard sell for a
   development community that has already done work to solve the
   issue 2) you mentioned modification and deletion was something
   that you already had to do - for geotagging video for
   electronic maps we don't need to but for deletion IDs might be
   applicable, ChrisLittle also pointed us to SMIL

   <MichaelGordon> RobSmith and PeterRushforth to take this
   discussion offline in interests of time

   brinkwoman: not clear what the added value of this is?

   <tidoust> [FWIW, note SVG animations is not widely supported
   across browsers (and will be dropped from a future version of
   Chrome)]
   ...would you encode spatial data in mapml? would there be
   actual coords in there and would that not become verbose
   ...would you also be able to do 3d maps with this having just
   seen CityJSON?

   <jtandy> (MapBox vector tiles is one response to overly verbose
   vector content)

   PeterRushforth: web maps are often raster based and we are
   sponsoring some work towards vector tiles
   ...they don't completely solve the issue of users putting maps
   on the web.
   ...vector data has some inherent links and that's why the
   vector model should be part of MapML

   jtandy: flavour of where this is going and not right forum for
   technical discussion, in interests of time how does this
   progress?

   <MichaelGordon> The team says goodbye and thank you to
   ClemensPortele

   ScottSimmons: how do you see MapML fit in with OGC standards
   like WMTS, WFS etc?

   PeterRushforth: already leveraging WMS under MapML (see demo)
   ...so won't replace OGC web services, and MapML won't be
   successful if it has to replace that information - its
   objective is to reuse where possible

   Jtandy: definitely in the scope of spatial data on the web -
   focus on rendering it
   ...should be on the funnel

   tidoust: already on the funnel (checking where it is)
   ...not in there

   jtandy: should be in the funnel - in remit and could go to
   standards working group. tidoust: where does it fit?

   tidoust: fits in incubation as community group but
   investigation because it needs a larger community.

   PROPOSED: add MapML to the funnel at the incubation phase

   <tidoust> +1

   <jtandy> +1

   <MichaelGordon> +1

   <ChrisLittle> +1

   <ScottSimmons> +1

   <brinkwoman> +1

   <billroberts> +1

   Resolved: add MapML to the funnel at the incubation phase

   tidoust: could MapML exist as custom extension not natively
   supported by browsers
   ...? we have other things like this musicml etc

   jtandy: is there any point in developing it if there's no
   pathway to native browser support?

   tidoust: goes back to brinkwoman's question on what the
   semantics are that are trying to be put on the web
   ...musicml looks to make music indexable etc as an extension

   RobSmith: question of who is going to use it along the way as
   extension

   tidoust: browser vendors are reluctant to add more media types

   jtandy: seperate native browser implementation of map type,
   we're left with development with mapml encoding, Peter do you
   know how many other organisations that are supporting this and
   willing to create implementations? Seems like the biggest
   challenge

   PeterRushforth: yes it does, could be used by various
   technologies - gis, leaflet etc without native browser support.
   In and of itself, it embeds map semantics into a hypertext

   jtandy: do you know specifically who would support it?

   robsmith: or are there specific use cases for it?

   jtandy: do we have an understand of value add and who will say
   they will implement that?

   PeterRushforth: could be adapted to simple leaflet as layer
   type and same could be said for openlayers
   ...it is open source so people need to be paid whilst
   implementing it

   jtandy: if we want to progress to working group in w3c - we
   need 25 organisations to vote for this. Do you know of 25 orgs
   in w3c that would support this?

   PeterRushforth: Not yet

   jtandy: this group can help socialisaiton of the idea

   robsmith: approach for doing that could be identifying the use
   cases and then approaching those users in that use case to show
   the potential benefits

   jtandy: Peter do you have a similar set of use cases or user
   communities?

   PeterRushforth: one of the objectives to lower the requirements
   on the HTML authors
   ...we want everyone to get value from our opendata. We want to
   lower the barrier

   jtandy: we are trying to find a way the incremental value of
   this approach over existing ways, and then use that as message
   to persuade people
   ...that would be a useful discussion - how it is we can
   socialise the incremental value of mapml

   PeterRushforth: Mapml community group is public so no barrier
   to joining
   ...both maps and HTML are both seen as having value, objective
   is bringing those together

   jtandy: time to cut off due to time restrictions
   ...30 mins past finish time

   tidoust: lets postpone that discussion

   jtandy: is there a holding place for funnel ideas?

   tidoust: Exploration space - anyone can put stuff there

   jtandy: if we know of things that are pending such as map
   accessibility then lets create issues there so when we do
   plenary we can look at candidates
   ...tidoust are you able to create issues for those?

   Action: tidoust to create candidate issues for funnel

   jtandy: with that part of discussion postponed it would be
   useful to do an AOB. Ways forward with how we're organised,
   stats BP, spatial BP, SNN/SOSA errata and funnel. Anyone?

   ScottSimmons: Critical at this time work queued up for work in
   either organisations, summary for ogc would be highly useful.
   Think we're making progress, would like to see more things come
   through and be assigned to OGC working groups to allow for
   scaling of work

   jtandy: we've already said that we want to do a 5 min slot at
   Orlean TC - would that material be good start to discussion

   ScottSimmons: yes and I'd allocate more to planning committee

   jtandy: would you invite myself or brinkwoman to present at PC
   to attend for that discussion?
   ...the funnel will exist plus the presentation given to the TC

   ScottSimmons: that would be good

   jtandy: anything from w3c?

   tidoust: happy with the progress and renewed enthusiasm in this
   group, funnels and roadmaps plus dinner on geonovum

   Action: jtandy to present at Orleans PC

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-384 - Present at orleans pc [on
   Jeremy Tandy - due 2018-02-27].

   ChrisLittle: now we have a funnel - I could use that for a
   temporal ontology to look to progress this

   Action: ChrisLittle to write a paragraph on this and put an
   issue in for temporal ontology

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-385 - Write a paragraph on this and
   put an issue in for temporal ontology [on Chris Little - due
   2018-02-27].

   RobSmith: during presentation I showed the explanatory spec -
   whilst I would like to share it I'm not sure this is the right
   time or forum to share it. What are peoples thoughts?

   jtandy: do RobSmith have a website for the spec itself?

   RobSmith: only company homepage

   jtandy: reticent to do this because it's hard to comment on.
   More than welcome to get a sub folder in interest group as a
   placeholder there

   tidoust: or could create own github repo

   jtandy: have a think about best place to do this not on company
   homepage

   RobSmith: putting it under the IG does gives a focus on it

   jtandy: RobSmith please could you work with tidoust to create
   the right folders

   brinkwoman: just wanted to thank for group coming here

   jtandy: thanks Geonovum and brinkwoman for wonderful hosting

   <MichaelGordon> Jtandy closes the meeting

   <ChrisLittle> bye
Received on Wednesday, 21 February 2018 09:26:25 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Wednesday, 21 February 2018 09:26:27 UTC