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RE: tidying ssn -- are you ok with?

From: Kerry Taylor <kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 03:38:30 +0000
To: "janowicz@ucsb.edu" <janowicz@ucsb.edu>, Rob Atkinson <rob@metalinkage.com.au>, "Simon.Cox@csiro.au" <Simon.Cox@csiro.au>, "Armin Haller" <armin.haller@anu.edu.au>, "maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr" <maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr>, "jano@geog.ucsb.edu" <jano@geog.ucsb.edu>
CC: "public-sdw-wg@w3.org" <public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <SYXPR01MB1536369C0CD004DECF317533A4400@SYXPR01MB1536.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
I’d probably  go for just one triple per term, because I can foresee examples wanting to reference  other partial examples for the same term.
However, given that the sosa use case is considerably smaller than the ssn use case for  many terms, I would not want to prohibit a simple sosa-inspired example as well as an ssn-inspired example and these should be distinguishable.  So.., following my proposed integration architecture I wold ideally have one in the core module and another one in the full module. They would both be true, but the expanded one would reference terms or use cases that are not covered in the simple one.

But of course this does depend on the unresolved integration strategy.  All I was  asking for here was the approval for a simple extraction of existing examples from ssn comments and moving them into a separate property. In which case there will always be only one.

Didn’t I ask this question too some time recently? Maybe it was in that  meeting that discussed this. Let’s not over-think this simple idea!
-Kerry



From: Krzysztof Janowicz [mailto:janowicz@ucsb.edu]
Sent: Monday, 6 February 2017 2:16 PM
To: Rob Atkinson <rob@metalinkage.com.au>; Simon.Cox@csiro.au; Kerry Taylor <kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au>; Armin Haller <armin.haller@anu.edu.au>; maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr; jano@geog.ucsb.edu
Cc: public-sdw-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: tidying ssn -- are you ok with?

Btw, would you suggest having one stko:example triple per example or per class/property (in case we have multiple or more complex examples)?

On 02/05/2017 05:57 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote:
+1 for using SKOS and not proliferating an alternative :-)


On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 at 12:11 <Simon.Cox@csiro.au><mailto:Simon.Cox@csiro.au> wrote:

>  And just to confirm (from the spec)

>  “Note that no domain is stated for the SKOS documentation properties. Thus, the effective domain for these properties is the class of all resources (rdfs:Resource). Therefore, using the SKOS documentation properties to provide information on any type of resource is consistent with the SKOS data model.”

Yep – I had checked this when I first proposed it and it seemed to leave the coast pretty clear.

From: Kerry Taylor [mailto:kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au<mailto:kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au>]
Sent: Monday, 6 February, 2017 12:06
To: Armin Haller <armin.haller@anu.edu.au<mailto:armin.haller@anu.edu.au>>; Maxime Lefrançois <maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr<mailto:maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr>>; Krzysztof Janowicz <jano@geog.ucsb.edu<mailto:jano@geog.ucsb.edu>>; Cox, Simon (L&W, Clayton) <Simon.Cox@csiro.au><mailto:Simon.Cox@csiro.au>
Cc: SDW WG Public List <public-sdw-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-sdw-wg@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: tidying ssn -- are you ok with?

All good .  I prefer option(a) as long as we don’t import skos and instead option(b) if we feel forced to import skos (which therefore means we don’t import skos). Please don’t kill our simple core or even our complex full ssn by an extra import that we  can easily do without!

I just checked: skos declares skos:example as an annotation property so if we do so in our ontologies it will not prevent using them together with skos in all its glory if someone wants to. And the same for those other skos documentation properties if we want to use them.

And just to confirm (from the spec)
“Note that no domain is stated for the SKOS documentation properties. Thus, the effective domain for these properties is the class of all resources (rdfs:Resource). Therefore, using the SKOS documentation properties to provide information on any type of resource is consistent with the SKOS data model.”

-Kerry

From: Armin Haller
Sent: Monday, 6 February 2017 11:34 AM
To: Maxime Lefrançois <maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr<mailto:maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr>>; Krzysztof Janowicz <jano@geog.ucsb.edu<mailto:jano@geog.ucsb.edu>>; Simon Cox <Simon.Cox@csiro.au<mailto:Simon.Cox@csiro.au>>
Cc: Kerry Taylor <kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au<mailto:kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au>>; SDW WG Public List <public-sdw-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-sdw-wg@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: tidying ssn -- are you ok with?

This one seems to be an easy one to decide upon. We found the splitting of examples and the definition as useful in a previous meeting, see https://www.w3.org/2016/12/06-sdwssn-minutes


I will put the following two options how to implement that for vote in this week’s meeting:


(a)    use skos:example in SOSA/SSN and declare it an owl annotation property

(b)   define our own annotation property -- e.g. sosa/ssn:example

If we decide for (a) we can also decide on importing SKOS or not in a second vote. Please, in this context also look at the generic comments that I have proposed (as of a discussion I had with Kerry) as a compromise between the current SOSA/SSN rdfs:comments: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Mapping_Table It would be useful to change/edit those to a state where we agree on the general meaning of the class. In the Wiki, please.


From: Maxime Lefrançois <maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr<mailto:maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr>>
Date: Sunday, 5 February 2017 at 10:29 pm
To: Krzysztof Janowicz <jano@geog.ucsb.edu<mailto:jano@geog.ucsb.edu>>, Simon Cox <Simon.Cox@csiro.au<mailto:Simon.Cox@csiro.au>>
Cc: Kerry Taylor <kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au<mailto:kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au>>, SDW WG Public List <public-sdw-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-sdw-wg@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: tidying ssn -- are you ok with?
Resent-From: <public-sdw-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-sdw-wg@w3.org>>
Resent-Date: Sunday, 5 February 2017 at 10:30 pm

Dear all,

+1 for Kerry's (a) :
 - (a) use skos:example and declare it an owl  annotation property (and this will work for any other skos property too). Also don’t import skos.

My arguments are:

 - SKOS is just used for documentation purposes here. So declaring skos:example, skos:definition, skos:note as annotation properties suffice in our case;
 - we don't need of all SKOS axioms. Importing all of them will make SOSA/SSN more complex to browse in Protégé for example;
 - the users of SOSA/SSN will import SOSA/SSN, but they do absolutely not need to import SKOS axioms.

Kind regards,
Maxime

Le dim. 5 févr. 2017 à 12:08, Krzysztof Janowicz <jano@geog.ucsb.edu<mailto:jano@geog.ucsb.edu>> a écrit :
I am certainly fine with SKOS if this is what most of us prefer. Armin, can you put this onto our agenda for the next call?

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 2:25 AM, <Simon.Cox@csiro.au<mailto:Simon.Cox@csiro.au>> wrote:
Btw I never intended to claim that skos was ideal here, but it was convenient to separate out the different annotations,. A simple SPARQL update could then finalise it to the predicate/namespace of choice.
________________________________
From: Krzysztof Janowicz <janowicz@ucsb.edu<mailto:janowicz@ucsb.edu>>
Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2017 5:31:05 AM
To: Kerry Taylor; SDW WG Public List
Subject: Re: tidying ssn -- are you ok with?

Hi Kerry,

I think it would be great if we could discuss this in the group meeting next week. I would like to understand our motivation a bit better as well as some decisions that we are taking e.g., using skos:example without importing skos.

Have a nice weekend
Jano


On 02/03/2017 09:15 PM, Kerry Taylor wrote:
I’d like to follow the approach Simon used in sosa (as we discussed in a meeting last year, I think) to separate examples from descriptive comments in the ontology using skos:example.

Are you ok with me doing the same in ssn? I don’t  plan to change the content substantively (although I might reword an example a little if it seems a bit too hard to follow e.g. too brief). And I’m not going to add amore examples at this point --- just move the ones already there.

I will not import skos.

Btw– I think this means specgen that we are currently using for the spec doco will no longer be able to extract the example – nor for sosa .
-Kerry





--

Krzysztof Janowicz



Geography Department, University of California, Santa Barbara

4830 Ellison Hall, Santa Barbara, CA 93106-4060



Email: jano@geog.ucsb.edu<mailto:jano@geog.ucsb.edu>

Webpage: http://geog.ucsb.edu/~jano/<http://geog.ucsb.edu/%7Ejano/>

Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net






--

Krzysztof Janowicz



Geography Department, University of California, Santa Barbara

4830 Ellison Hall, Santa Barbara, CA 93106-4060



Email: jano@geog.ucsb.edu<mailto:jano@geog.ucsb.edu>

Webpage: http://geog.ucsb.edu/~jano/


Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net

Received on Monday, 6 February 2017 03:39:16 UTC

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