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Re: tidying ssn -- are you ok with?

From: Krzysztof Janowicz <janowicz@ucsb.edu>
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 19:15:49 -0800
To: Rob Atkinson <rob@metalinkage.com.au>, Simon.Cox@csiro.au, kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au, armin.haller@anu.edu.au, maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr, jano@geog.ucsb.edu
Cc: public-sdw-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <e7f7f606-3c0a-00cb-a7af-708881294fa0@ucsb.edu>
Btw, would you suggest having one stko:example triple per example or per 
class/property (in case we have multiple or more complex examples)?

On 02/05/2017 05:57 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote:
> +1 for using SKOS and not proliferating an alternative :-)
>
>
> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 at 12:11 <Simon.Cox@csiro.au> wrote:
>
>     ØAnd just to confirm (from the spec)
>
>     Ø“Note that *no domain is stated* for the SKOS documentation
>     properties. Thus, the effective domain for these properties is the
>     class of all resources (|rdfs:Resource|). Therefore, using the
>     SKOS documentation properties to provide information on *any type
>     of resource* is consistent with the SKOS data model.”
>
>     Yep – I had checked this when I first proposed it and it seemed to
>     leave the coast pretty clear.
>
>     *From:*Kerry Taylor [mailto:kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au
>     <mailto:kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au>]
>     *Sent:* Monday, 6 February, 2017 12:06
>     *To:* Armin Haller <armin.haller@anu.edu.au
>     <mailto:armin.haller@anu.edu.au>>; Maxime Lefrançois
>     <maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr <mailto:maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr>>;
>     Krzysztof Janowicz <jano@geog.ucsb.edu
>     <mailto:jano@geog.ucsb.edu>>; Cox, Simon (L&W, Clayton)
>     <Simon.Cox@csiro.au>
>     *Cc:* SDW WG Public List <public-sdw-wg@w3.org
>     <mailto:public-sdw-wg@w3.org>>
>     *Subject:* RE: tidying ssn -- are you ok with?
>
>     All good .  I prefer option(a) as long as we don’t import skos and
>     instead option(b) if we feel forced to import skos (which
>     therefore means we don’t import skos). Please don’t kill our
>     simple core or even our complex full ssn by an extra import that
>     we  can easily do without!
>
>     I just checked: skos declares skos:example as an annotation
>     property so if we do so in our ontologies it will not prevent
>     using them together with skos in all its glory if someone wants
>     to. And the same for those other skos documentation properties if
>     we want to use them.
>
>     And just to confirm (from the spec)
>
>     “Note that *no domain is stated* for the SKOS documentation
>     properties. Thus, the effective domain for these properties is the
>     class of all resources (|rdfs:Resource|). Therefore, using the
>     SKOS documentation properties to provide information on *any type
>     of resource* is consistent with the SKOS data model.”
>
>     -Kerry
>
>     *From:*Armin Haller
>     *Sent:* Monday, 6 February 2017 11:34 AM
>     *To:* Maxime Lefrançois <maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr
>     <mailto:maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr>>; Krzysztof Janowicz
>     <jano@geog.ucsb.edu <mailto:jano@geog.ucsb.edu>>; Simon Cox
>     <Simon.Cox@csiro.au <mailto:Simon.Cox@csiro.au>>
>     *Cc:* Kerry Taylor <kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au
>     <mailto:kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au>>; SDW WG Public List
>     <public-sdw-wg@w3.org <mailto:public-sdw-wg@w3.org>>
>     *Subject:* Re: tidying ssn -- are you ok with?
>
>     This one seems to be an easy one to decide upon. We found the
>     splitting of examples and the definition as useful in a previous
>     meeting, see https://www.w3.org/2016/12/06-sdwssn-minutes
>
>     I will put the following two options how to implement that for
>     vote in this week’s meeting:
>
>     (a)use skos:example in SOSA/SSN and declare it an owl annotation
>     property
>
>     (b)define our own annotation property -- e.g. sosa/ssn:example
>
>     If we decide for (a) we can also decide on importing SKOS or not
>     in a second vote. Please, in this context also look at the generic
>     comments that I have proposed (as of a discussion I had with
>     Kerry) as a compromise between the current SOSA/SSN rdfs:comments:
>     https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Mapping_Table It would be
>     useful to change/edit those to a state where we agree on the
>     general meaning of the class. In the Wiki, please.
>
>     *From: *Maxime Lefrançois <maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr
>     <mailto:maxime.lefrancois@emse.fr>>
>     *Date: *Sunday, 5 February 2017 at 10:29 pm
>     *To: *Krzysztof Janowicz <jano@geog.ucsb.edu
>     <mailto:jano@geog.ucsb.edu>>, Simon Cox <Simon.Cox@csiro.au
>     <mailto:Simon.Cox@csiro.au>>
>     *Cc: *Kerry Taylor <kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au
>     <mailto:kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au>>, SDW WG Public List
>     <public-sdw-wg@w3.org <mailto:public-sdw-wg@w3.org>>
>     *Subject: *Re: tidying ssn -- are you ok with?
>     *Resent-From: *<public-sdw-wg@w3.org <mailto:public-sdw-wg@w3.org>>
>     *Resent-Date: *Sunday, 5 February 2017 at 10:30 pm
>
>     Dear all,
>
>     +1 for Kerry's (a) :
>
>      - (a) use skos:example and declare it an owl  annotation property
>     (and this will work for any other skos property too). Also don’t
>     import skos.
>
>     My arguments are:
>
>      - SKOS is just used for documentation purposes here. So declaring
>     skos:example, skos:definition, skos:note as annotation properties
>     suffice in our case;
>
>      - we don't need of all SKOS axioms. Importing all of them will
>     make SOSA/SSN more complex to browse in Protégé for example;
>
>      - the users of SOSA/SSN will import SOSA/SSN, but they do
>     absolutely not need to import SKOS axioms.
>
>     Kind regards,
>
>     Maxime
>
>     Le dim. 5 févr. 2017 à 12:08, Krzysztof Janowicz
>     <jano@geog.ucsb.edu <mailto:jano@geog.ucsb.edu>> a écrit :
>
>         I am certainly fine with SKOS if this is what most of us
>         prefer. Armin, can you put this onto our agenda for the next call?
>
>         On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 2:25 AM, <Simon.Cox@csiro.au
>         <mailto:Simon.Cox@csiro.au>> wrote:
>
>             Btw I never intended to claim that skos was ideal here,
>             but it was convenient to separate out the different
>             annotations,. A simple SPARQL update could then finalise
>             it to the predicate/namespace of choice.
>
>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>             *From:*Krzysztof Janowicz <janowicz@ucsb.edu
>             <mailto:janowicz@ucsb.edu>>
>             *Sent:* Saturday, 4 February 2017 5:31:05 AM
>             *To:* Kerry Taylor; SDW WG Public List
>             *Subject:* Re: tidying ssn -- are you ok with?
>
>             Hi Kerry,
>
>             I think it would be great if we could discuss this in the
>             group meeting next week. I would like to understand our
>             motivation a bit better as well as some decisions that we
>             are taking e.g., using skos:example without importing skos.
>
>             Have a nice weekend
>             Jano
>
>
>             On 02/03/2017 09:15 PM, Kerry Taylor wrote:
>
>                 I’d like to follow the approach Simon used in sosa (as
>                 we discussed in a meeting last year, I think) to
>                 separate examples from descriptive comments in the
>                 ontology using skos:example.
>
>                 Are you ok with me doing the same in ssn? I don’t
>                  plan to change the content substantively (although I
>                 might reword an example a little if it seems a bit too
>                 hard to follow e.g. too brief). And I’m not going to
>                 add amore examples at this point --- just move the
>                 ones already there.
>
>                 I will not import skos.
>
>                 Btw– I think this means specgen that we are currently
>                 using for the spec doco will no longer be able to
>                 extract the example – nor for sosa .
>
>                 -Kerry
>
>             -- 
>
>             Krzysztof Janowicz
>
>             Geography Department, University of California, Santa Barbara
>
>             4830 Ellison Hall, Santa Barbara, CA 93106-4060
>
>             Email: jano@geog.ucsb.edu <mailto:jano@geog.ucsb.edu>
>
>             Webpage: http://geog.ucsb.edu/~jano/
>             <http://geog.ucsb.edu/%7Ejano/>
>
>             Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net
>


-- 
Krzysztof Janowicz

Geography Department, University of California, Santa Barbara
4830 Ellison Hall, Santa Barbara, CA 93106-4060

Email: jano@geog.ucsb.edu
Webpage: http://geog.ucsb.edu/~jano/
Semantic Web Journal: http://www.semantic-web-journal.net
Received on Monday, 6 February 2017 03:16:28 UTC

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