[2015-01-28] Minutes

The minutes of today's meeting are available in full technicolour at 
http://www.w3.org/2015/01/28-sdw-minutes.html

and a text version is shown below...


                              SDW WG Weekly

28 Jan 2015

    [2]Agenda

       [2] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150128

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2015/01/28-sdw-irc

Attendees

    Present
           eparsons, phila, armin, +1.412.390.aaaa, Payam,
           +1.603.521.aabb, linda, MattPerry, +49.151.152.9.aadd,
           +61.3.925.2.aaee, JoshLieberman, chrislittle, Ingo,
           Ashok_Malhotra, aharth, +1.301.560.aaff, jtandy,
           cory_henson, Simon, Clemens, BartvanLeeuwen,
           George_Percival, chaals, cperey, LarsG, AndreaPerego,
           +35385740aahh, KJano, +30210756aaii, +44.790.122.aajj,
           OscarCorcho, DanhLePhuoc, Ramon_Alcarria, Chaals,
           AndreasHarth

    Regrets
           Kerry, Alejandro

    Chair
           Ed

    Scribe
           chaals

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]More introductions
          2. [6]Review the charter
          3. [7]First F2F meeting
          4. [8]administrivia
      * [9]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

    <scribe> scribe: chaals

    <jtandy> +jtandy

    <phila> Agenda:
    [10]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon201501
    28

      [10] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150128

    <eparsons>
    [11]http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2015012
    8

      [11] http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150128

    EP: Minutes have been published.

    <phila> [12]Last week's minutes

      [12] http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-sdw-minutes.html

More introductions

    <Simon> +q

    EP: If you didn't introduce yourself last eek, please queue up
    now

    GeorgePercivall: OGC staff, joining for the first time

    Christine Perey: Joining from Switzerland

    MattP: On SPARQL group

    Kevin: Sent email introduction to the list.

    AH: Question on minutes. Attendee list may not be complete -is
    that a problem?

    <jtandy> (agreed - it seemed incomplete)

    EP: Don't think so...

    PA: If people are not listed please tell me and I will correct
    that.

    … Please check and let me know.

    <aharth> phila: please add me :)

    [In IRC you can type "Present+ MyName" (no spaces!) and you
    will be added]

    <ramon-alcarria> phila: please add me too

    <jtandy> (jtandy not listed in last week's minutes)

    <ioannis> chaals - I attended last week's call

    SimonCox: Introduced mysefl by email yesterday. Last week I was
    slacking on the beach.

    ChrisLittle: Chair of MetOcean domain group, Met office in UK.

    <DanhLePhuoc> +35385740aahh is me, DanhLePhuoc

    BVL: Been a W3C member for linked data work.

    … will send intro to the mailing list.

Review the charter

    -> [13]http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/charter Our charter.

      [13] http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/charter

    EP: The charter identifies what we are trying to do. I don't
    propose changing it now, but want to focus on the deliverables
    - especially use cases and requirements.

    … It is important to focus on solving real problems. The best
    approach is to work on use cases, and find the requirements
    that come from them.

    … Is there a view on the scope and size of successful use case
    work?

    <phila> chaals: You start by laying out all the UCs that people
    can think of

    <phila> ... then you review the UCs, requirements then drop out
    almost by magic

    <phila> ed: Any idea of the right number? A couple of dozen?

    <phila> chaals: That's a good number. It's about talking about
    problems that people actually have rather than invent UCs that
    never actually arise. There is not ideal number

    i/chaals: you/scribe: phila

    <KJano> [14]Use cases wiki

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Use_Cases_%26_Requirements

    <scribe> scribe: chaals

    <KJano> yes, will contribute

    <Simon> Yes, will contribute

    EP: We have a couple of use cases already, I plan to add a few
    from the perspective of a mas-market search provider. Are there
    others expecting to add use cases?

    <Linda> yes, probably

    <cory_henson> yes, will contribute

    <LarsG> yes, I will contribute a use case

    <ocorcho> UPM (OEG) will contribute

    <jtandy> +1 to work toward f2f

    <Simon> +1

    EP: What about timelines. Should we ask for them to be done
    before the face to face?

    +1

    <KJano> +1

    <AndreaPerego> +1

    <Payam> +1

    <Clemens> good for me

    <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

    <Linda> +1

    <JoshLieberman> There will be use cases to contribute from the
    OGC Testbed 11 activity and they will have to be done by March

    <MattPerry> +1

    <LarsG> not sure I can make f2f

    <armin> +1

    EP: Will talk about the face to face, but think it is a good
    timeline for getting use cases together.

    <armin> can't make the f2f :-(

    <ChrisLittle> +1

    <KJano> I would propose that each use case includes an example

    … I think it makes sense to create use cases that are not
    related to you but that you can consider through discussions
    with other organisations.

    <Simon> I also won't make f2f but plan to dial-in

    … There may well be a task required to boil down the use cases
    somewhat.

    <AndreaPerego> +1 to KJano

    <KJano> same, here will dial-in for the f2f

    <jtandy> (lost audio ... will dial back in)

    … If use cases don't appear we might try to give action items.

    … Is it useful to do other work in parallel?

    … any views?

    <ocorcho> I prefer getting first the use cases

    <KJano> in the w3c ssn-xg we collected related and relevant
    work in the wiki and that turned out to be very useful

    JL: My experience is that statistical approach to use cases
    isn't very effective. It works better to let deliverables and
    use cases inform the other.

    … The most valuable use cases connect a real activity with a
    reasonable scope.

    EP: Suggesting more qualitative than statistical approach. But
    is there work to do before we get use cases together?

    JL: Yes, think there is some in the charter.

    SC: Don't think we should postpone the discussion. Should get
    use cases from real backgrounds for the discussion

    … but we can run the discussions in parallel. But should have a
    set of use cases before we make decisions.

    EP: Support that.

    <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about BPs

    <phila> [15]Template for Best Practises group use cases.

      [15] http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#bp-template

    PhilA: I think use cases are going to be slightly ahead, but
    when writing a use case it is useful to have a clear idea of
    where we are heading.

    … The work we do has influenced the use case, helping to write
    them in a way that helps do the work.

    … These documents can be iterated over time.

    <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to suggest that use cases would be
    good to include real data within their examples (we can use
    these for test cases later)

    <ChrisLittle> q

    … But having some idea of where you are heading enables you to
    write use cases well.

    JT: When writing use cases, focus on tangible things and using
    real data is helpful.

    EP: It is good having a link to a real customer.

    <ThiagoA> I´m back

    CL: My use cases reflect different aspects - more of a scenario
    you can break down into use cases. Sometimes scenarios give
    some framework to contextualise several use cases, which help
    define something of a roadmap as you shake it down to concrete
    requirements.

    EP: Sometimes we come to use cases from our own perspective,
    and need to get the different views included. With a breadth of
    use cases we might be able to mitigate the biases.
    ... Suggest we work toward the deadline of the first face to
    face.

First F2F meeting

    <phila> [16]OGC TC details

      [16] http://www.opengeospatial.org/event/1503tc

    EP: Will be held jointly with the OGC meeting in Barcelona in
    March. has everyone been able to see the details needed to
    register? If you are not an OGC member everything should be
    publicly available.

    … Our meeting will be all day on Wednesday. We'll work on the
    agenda over the next few weeks.

    <Simon> sorry - was typing

    … It is good to get people to see each other.

    <AndreaPerego> s/HAs/Has/

    <JoshLieberman> Simon, thought it was castanets...

    CL: OGC is very busy, and there are several things going on in
    parallel. So it will be difficult to make it. We should pin
    down the agenda to help.

    EP: Think it will be a learning experience.

    <JoshLieberman> Possibility of F2F on the Friday, after TC
    activities?

    … There is a different tempo of meetings between OGC and W3C.
    Latter has whole-day [NdelT or multi-day] meetings.

    <Simon> In support of ChrisLittle statement - OGC TC not good
    for more than 1/2 day meeting

    CL: GML and JP? are scheduled so far, 3D working group, …

    <Simon> For real work, other timings should be considered.

    EP: There isn't much we can do about it. There is an ideal of
    running joint meetings, but this will be a learning experience.
    Maybe we will end up holding meetings at the end of the week...

    … are there issues with getting registered?

    <AndreaPerego> Tentative OGC TC agenda, including SDW WG f2f:
    [17]http://www.opengeospatial.org/event/1503tcagenda

      [17] http://www.opengeospatial.org/event/1503tcagenda

    EP: That's the agenda. I cannot make call next week, but my
    co-chair will.

    <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to ask what level of detail you need
    for the f2f

    JT: Is the level of detail enough to triage what I have added
    to use cases, or should I add more?

    EP: Not sure. Think they may be a little light, but don't want
    to ask for massive amounts of effort. It might help if people
    add detail to them as we go - perhaps for now we should aim for
    depth, and flesh them out later.

    … What is your sense?

    JT: For requirements to magically be clear we are going to have
    to add some more detail to what we have. But recommend we start
    aiming for breadth, and look at what appears to have common
    issues, then elaborate.

    … rather than elaborating everything in parallel.

    EP: Agree

    +1 to Jeremy

    <BartvanLeeuwen> +q use the why how what principle for UC

    <Zakim> phila, you wanted to be boring about zakim names etc.

    <BartvanLeeuwen> +q to use the why how what principle for UC

    <Zakim> BartvanLeeuwen, you wanted to use the why how what
    principle for UC

    BVL: Wanted to add the idea of using the How Why What. Use
    cases can get technical. We need to know what needs to be
    solved and why, rather than How...

    … and we need to make sure the use cases are actually in scope.

administrivia

    PhilA: Useful approach is to have specific questions we want to
    ask.

    <phila> are specifically relevant to data published on the Web;

    <phila> encourage publication or re-use of data on the Web;

    <phila> can be tested by machines, humans or a combination of
    the two.

    … would need to be amended for this group, but the approach is
    really helpful.

    EP: Sounds great. Can you append that to the Wiki page?

    PhilA: If we agree on what the questions need to be for this
    group…

    First question - for this group we want…

    <phila> PROPOSAL: That the first scope question be ... Is the
    use case specifically about Spatial data on the Web?

    +1

    <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

    <eparsons> +1

    <Linda> +1

    <AndreaPerego> +1

    <KJano> +1

    <LarsG> what about temporal data?

    <MattPerry> +1

    <jtandy> +1

    <ChrisLittle> +1

    <Payam> +1

    <Clemens> +1

    <KJano> spatial always includes spatiotemporal

    <Ingo__> +1

    <IanH> +1

    EP: There is a danger that we get tied up in the nuances of
    wording...

    <Simon> Located temporal

    <Ashok_Malhotra> +1

    <ThiagoA> temporal data on the web ?

    <armin> we do need use cases for the time ontology

    <LarsG> +1, just wanted to know...

    <DanhLePhuoc> +!

    <DanhLePhuoc> +1

    <LarsG> resolved for me

    <phila> RESOLVED: That the first scope question be ... Is the
    use case specifically about Spatial data on the Web?

    <phila> 2nd q is encourage publication or re-use of data on the
    Web;

    <KJano> so does the resolution include spatiotemporal or not?

    [Phila uses this as a teaching moment]

    [Spatial includes spatiotemporal since all spatial data
    includes spatiotemporal data]

    <KJano> yes, thanks

    PA: What's the equivalent question for this group?

    JT: This question was specific to the data on the web group.
    For spatial data you get a very amorphous requirement...

    … don't think this question gets tight enough for our purposes.

    EP: THis is for data you are trying to share. No?

    JT: On a higher level, yes.

    <jtandy> ok

    … OK with the question in its broader sense, but not sure it is
    specific enough to help.

    <jtandy> (sorry - poor network connection I think)

    [+1 to parking this question for now]

    BVL: Question with scope - the *public* web?

    <Percivall> Is the use case specifcally about how spatial
    information is linked with other data on the Web?

    <JoshLieberman> f+1 to Percivall

    BVL: I think DWBP group is specific to public web, I want to
    use web technology that may not be public.

    <cperey> +1 to remark ed made

    KJ: We shouldn't be overly specific on this call.

    <cperey> this is not about public web

    … Should be driven by use cases.

    … if we have great use cases for something we should do it…

    <JoshLieberman> breathers please mute

    CL: Don't see distinction between public web and others. But
    the issue is tightening the scope. We want things published,
    but we want them to be interoperable.

    <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to suggest that the private web is
    still the web.

    CMN: +1 to Chris

    <cperey> +1 to consistent use of Web technologes

    <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about spatial/Geospatial

    <BartvanLeeuwen> +1 as well ;)

    PhilA: No difference between public and closed web.

    <KJano> just to make my point more clear: lets not use this
    call to sort out whether spatial also includes geospatial, or
    even geo-data on the web as such or whether by web we only mean
    the public web,etc. Lets be driven by the uses cases and derive
    requirements from them.

    … Someone mentioned spatial and geospatial - the point is that
    we were talking about non-geo use cases.

    [+1 to non-geospatial use cases being in scope]

    <KJano> +1

    <eparsons> +1

    <LarsG> +1

    <ocorcho> +1

    … we cannot tackle things we don't have someone working on.
    Decisions are made by people who turn up…

    GP: Use case about spatial information linked to other
    information on the web

    <Simon> +1 Percivall

    <BartvanLeeuwen> +10 Percivall

    EP: How about not trying to be too prescriptiive up front -
    work on them first, then check them.

    <Simon> Linking is distinguishing feature of 'the web'

    <KJano> +1 for use cases first

    <AndreaPerego> +1 to Ed

    <jtandy> (phila's point that "can be tested by machines, humans
    or a combination of the two." is good)

    EP: OK. Let's go do work on use cases.

    … Any other business?

    [Adjourned until next week]

    <jtandy> thanks chaals for scribing; thanks ed for chairing

    <eparsons> thanks chaals

    <DanhLePhuoc> +35385740aahh is me

    <cperey> bye bye everyone

    <ioannis> [IPCaller] is me

    <KJano> -1

    <cperey> -1

    <aharth> +1

    <armin> +1

    <eparsons> +1 to later

    <LarsG> -1

    <AndreaPerego> +1

    <Simon> +1 1/2 hour later

    <ChrisLittle> -1

    <cperey> -1 late enough

    <Linda> -1

    <JoshLieberman> +1

    <cory_henson> +1

    0

    <BartvanLeeuwen> 0

    <ocorcho> 0

    <jtandy> also late enough for me

    <Payam> 0

    <BartvanLeeuwen> why ?

    <jtandy> +0

    <BartvanLeeuwen> ;)

    i/[ipcaller is me]/Phil, can we move the call half an hour
    later?

    <Simon> Good *morning* everyone

    <BartvanLeeuwen> thx bye

    <ChrisLittle> bye

    <AndreaPerego> Bye bye

    <Payam> bye

    <Linda> bye!

    <ocorcho> bye

    <KJano> thx bye bye

    <ioannis> bye

    <armin> bye

    <MattPerry> bye

    <LarsG> good *night*

    <Clemens> bye

    <JoshLieberman> bye

    <Ramon_Alcarria> goodbye everybody!

    <eparsons> By all

Received on Wednesday, 28 January 2015 21:30:34 UTC