Re: Schema.org for health insurance: Next steps

Thank sharing this info Dan!
This is a great improvement and can be an alternative for our colleagues
working on US Health insurance schema.

@David: Do you see here a suitable way forward?

Marc

On 27 July 2015 at 09:51, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 27 July 2015 at 08:34, Marc Twagirumukiza <twamarc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> my 2 cents:
>>
>> The proposal we had ( (from Chris Corak) is only at hierarchy/structure
>> level is not yet elaborated as the one you have here.
>> So I think the harmonization of both should not be a lot of effort: just
>> look at the topics which are suggested by Chris you do not cover yet and
>> vice versa.
>>
>> But this is to help harmonizing our understanding, it's not the main
>> point.
>> The main points are 1) to have your draft in .rdfa format 2)to integrate
>> it into existing health.schema.org extension proposal (link with
>> existing terms, subClass harmonizations, domain/ranges links, etc).
>>
>> The sooner .rdfa file is available in github, the sooner the proposal can
>> be submitted in time.
>> We are targeting September to submit the revisited health.schema.org
>> extension proposal. So let's work for this milestone and then we will see
>> where we are.
>>
>> I see lot of challenges here, and I understand your specificities.
>> Actually we had the same situation with other topic when drafting the first
>> submission.
>> But in your case it's not complicated as most of predicates/classes you
>> proposed here are common and can be re-usable in all health insurance
>> schemes even here in Europe.
>> Thinking loud, I foresee as a first extension proposal a very
>> common/generic structure (with at least your need info) and then other
>> parties filling gaps later on.
>> Therefore I would suggest to stick (for the time being) on the minimum
>> mandated info and have the schema submitted.
>>
>
> Let me just add a quick observation: we have (by design) arranged the
> schema.org extension mechanism so that terms can migrate between
> "extensions" over time with minimal impact on end users. Each word used for
> a type or property is drawn from the same "flat" namespace. This means that
> the US healthcare extension could launch on its own schedule e.g. as
>  something like 'healthnets', yet later be merged into a larger '
> health.schema.org' effort without requiring major markup changes from
> publishers. I do think we can and should move promptly on the larger health
> schemas, but wanted to highlight this option too.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>> Regards
>> Marc Twagirumukiza
>>
>>
>> On 27 July 2015 at 07:04, David Portnoy <portnoy.david@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings Marc,
>>>
>>> Glad to hear that there's already an effort underway.  Thanks for
>>> providing insights into the process.
>>>
>>> Our challenge is that we have extenuating circumstances...  In the U.S.,
>>> the largest body influencing health insurance coverage and healthcare
>>> provider directory standards is the government.  There's a new rule going
>>> into effect this year for machine-readable files containing both healthcare
>>> provider demographics and health insurance coverage.  This rule will usher
>>> in financial incentives for insurance companies and healthcare providers to
>>> keep their data up to date using a well-defined schema.  We want to
>>> leverage the timing of this rule to deploy a related Schema.org extension.
>>> The key is for this extension to be fully backwards compatible with the
>>> government mandate.  In other words, our schema extension can be more
>>> elaborate, but must at least be capable of handling the mandated
>>> information.
>>>
>>> So knowing this challenge, what are your thoughts with how what we're
>>> doing can coordinate with prior efforts?
>>>
>>>
>>> David  |  HHS IDEA Lab Entrepreneur-in-Residence  |  m: 312.401.0309  |
>>>  e: david.portnoy@hhs.gov  |  g: portnoy.david@gmail.com
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:54 AM, Marc Twagirumukiza <twamarc@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi David,
>>>> Thanks sharing this. I think we can coordinate here with the revisit of
>>>> the health.schema.org extension going on.
>>>> Actually the topic was already on the table for discussions:
>>>> https://github.com/twamarc/ScheMed/issues/3 (from From: Chris Corak)
>>>> and it was raised also in mailing list of the  Healthcare Schema
>>>> Vocabulary Community Group <http://www.w3.org/community/schemed/> [see:
>>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schemed/2015Jul/0000.html].
>>>>
>>>> This seems advanced and already structured. The drawback is extensive
>>>> and needs a time to digest. Let's see a smart way to coordinate:
>>>>
>>>> I would propose the following:
>>>>
>>>> -Can you have a look on the first structure proposal
>>>> https://github.com/twamarc/ScheMed/issues/3 (from From: Chris Corak)
>>>> and consolidate yours. The purpose here is to work on a single file version
>>>>
>>>> -To browse the existing health.schema.org proposal (although it's
>>>> under restructuring process), this will provide you insight of how to
>>>> integrate the health insurance vocabulary.
>>>> http://demoschemed.appspot.com/MedicalEntity
>>>>
>>>> -To generate a single rdfa file health insurance vocabulary and commit
>>>> it to schemed git hub repository: so others colleagues can discuss this
>>>> https://github.com/twamarc/ScheMed
>>>>
>>>> -Once we get consensus there, it will be merged with the extension
>>>> proposal.
>>>>
>>>> -Normally we plan a meeting in the last week of August, it would help
>>>> if someone from your team can attend.
>>>> Please fill in this doodle pool, for suitable hours.
>>>> *http://doodle.com/dzap4aa5caf3xzw4*
>>>> <http://doodle.com/dzap4aa5caf3xzw4>
>>>>
>>>> -The timeline for the health.schema.org extension is to finalise all
>>>> discussions for the existing version by Q3 2015 and submit it (hope to get
>>>> it published in Q4). Sure we will keep improving it version by version and
>>>> extend it when needed.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Marc Twagirumukiza
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 22 July 2015 at 01:26, Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO) <
>>>> David.Portnoy@hhs.gov> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Vicki,
>>>>> Thanks for the intro.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Marc,
>>>>> Happy to talk.  We're creating schemas
>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/11JiYc9PIxIzmgGCSDOUvvkvmmwl0-UvUos2twIEnP64>
>>>>> driven by legislation in the U.S.  This schema includes healthcare provider
>>>>> directory, demographics, quality attributes, and health insurance
>>>>> coverage.  Ultimately, it's intended to help consumers navigate the
>>>>> healthcare system.  We focus more on interoperability among the many layers
>>>>> of industry participants than on vocabulary.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Let me know your thoughts on how we should (or shouldn't)
>>>>> coordinate.  Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   David  |  HHS IDEA Lab Entrepreneur-in-Residence  |  m: 312.401.0309
>>>>>  |  e: david.portnoy@hhs.gov  |  g: portnoy.david@gmail.com
>>>>>    ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Vicki Tardif Holland [vtardif@google.com]
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:51 AM
>>>>> *To:* Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO); Dan Brickley
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Schema.org for health insurance: Next steps
>>>>>
>>>>>   +danbri@google.com
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hi David,
>>>>>
>>>>>  You can reach out to schemed@googlegroups.com or to their leader
>>>>> Marc Twagirumukiza <twamarc@gmail.com> directly.
>>>>>
>>>>>  This is timely as they are discussing whether to go into
>>>>> insurance-related schema.
>>>>>
>>>>>  - Vicki
>>>>>
>>>>>   Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vtardif@google.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO) <
>>>>> David.Portnoy@hhs.gov> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Vicki,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  How do we reach people the helped design MedicalOrganization and
>>>>>> Drug for comments and questions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   David  |  HHS IDEA Lab Entrepreneur-in-Residence  |  m:
>>>>>> 312.401.0309  |  e: david.portnoy@hhs.gov  |  g:
>>>>>> portnoy.david@gmail.com
>>>>>>    ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO)
>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 9:55 AM
>>>>>> *To:* Vicki Tardif Holland
>>>>>> *Cc:* Lily Peng; Dan Brickley; Aneesh Chopra; Kapil Parakh; David
>>>>>> Portnoy (portnoy.david@gmail.com)
>>>>>> *Subject:* RE: Schema.org for health insurance: Next steps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Thanks Vicki!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I'm starting to review it and asking others to provide input.  I'd
>>>>>> like to give it a couple days and then move forward with the first
>>>>>> version.  Due to the desire to stay compatible with the regulatorily
>>>>>> imposed standard, we might need to keep most of the original fields, but
>>>>>> supplement them with additional fields that would help industry
>>>>>> participants run their business and serve consumers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   David  |  HHS IDEA Lab Entrepreneur-in-Residence  |  m:
>>>>>> 312.401.0309  |  e: david.portnoy@hhs.gov  |  g:
>>>>>> portnoy.david@gmail.com
>>>>>>    ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* Vicki Tardif Holland [vtardif@google.com]
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 2:50 PM
>>>>>> *To:* Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO)
>>>>>> *Cc:* Lily Peng; Dan Brickley; Aneesh Chopra; Kapil Parakh
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Schema.org for health insurance: Next steps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Here
>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LNew5OEon4uir2D5Zzp0AkUPA7c9nO8reJ_M1pOy-3s/edit?usp=sharing>
>>>>>> is a pass at converting the CMS proposal to a schema.org extension.
>>>>>> There are a few types like http://schema.org/MedicalOrganization and
>>>>>> http://schema.org/Drug which may require some coordination with the
>>>>>> schema.org medical community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  - Vicki
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vtardif@google.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO) <
>>>>>> David.Portnoy@hhs.gov> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Lily, Vicki,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Just checking in.  Wanted to make sure the items I listed below
>>>>>>> are accurate.  Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  David  |  HHS IDEA Lab Entrepreneur-in-Residence  |  m:
>>>>>>> 312.401.0309  |  g: portnoy.david@gmail.com
>>>>>>>    ------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From:* Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO)
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 10, 2015 7:43 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* Lily Peng; Vicki Tardif Holland
>>>>>>> *Cc:* Dan Brickley; Aneesh Chopra
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Schema.org for health insurance: Next steps
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Lily, Vicki,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Thanks for jumping on the call.  I wanted to follow up with the
>>>>>>> next steps and make sure I understood everything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    1. *First draft:* *Vicki* will go ahead and create a first draft
>>>>>>>    of the schema based on the elements identified the schema
>>>>>>>    proposed by CMS
>>>>>>>    <https://docs.google.com/document/d/11JiYc9PIxIzmgGCSDOUvvkvmmwl0-UvUos2twIEnP64>.
>>>>>>>    She's targeting to get something back to us by *Friday 7/17*.
>>>>>>>       - It will be written up as a reviewed *extension*, rather
>>>>>>>       than a new schema.  This is due in part to the fact that it might have
>>>>>>>       limited usefulness outside of the U.S.
>>>>>>>       - *Vicki* will identify and try to resolve conflicts in
>>>>>>>       naming with existing schemas.  *Lily* should be able to help
>>>>>>>       with the conflicts, given her domain expertise in healthcare.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        2. *Publishing on Schema.org:* Assuming the draft schema
>>>>>>>    looks good, it should take about *2 weeks* to get it up on the
>>>>>>>    Schema.org website.
>>>>>>>       - All this is independent of the group governance structure
>>>>>>>       we use.  There's no single best practice.  In the interest of efficiency,
>>>>>>>       we'll stay away from a process-heavy approach.  We might still choose to
>>>>>>>       use a W3C wiki and mailing list.
>>>>>>>       - At this point website owners can choose to publish to the
>>>>>>>       schema, but it will not yet be picked up.
>>>>>>>          - But they should be able to use validators to test for
>>>>>>>          conformance.
>>>>>>>          - We'll publish notifications to the community describing
>>>>>>>          availability.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>           3. *Updating the search engine:* The next step would be
>>>>>>>    for *Vicki* to shop the schema around within google, since each
>>>>>>>    search engine component team (such as Local, Plus, Knowledge Panel) decides
>>>>>>>    its own development priories.  *Vicki* or *Dan* will try to get
>>>>>>>    us implementation estimates.
>>>>>>>       - I'll serve as the technical point of contact for
>>>>>>>       formulating specifications and will most likely be working with
>>>>>>>       *Dan*.
>>>>>>>       - The extension development process is not yet well defined.
>>>>>>>       So it's hard to predict completion dates.
>>>>>>>       - I'll be notified when each of the teams adds the schema to
>>>>>>>       their code base.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        4. *Notifying the community:* When the search engine changes
>>>>>>>    are operational, we'll have another series of releases and communications
>>>>>>>    to the community.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    5. *Making version updates:* These schema will no doubt evolve
>>>>>>>    as regulatory rules are adjusted, industry practices change, and
>>>>>>>    new market participants enter.  (Already we know that CMS might tweak the
>>>>>>>    latest version and there are conversations happening in parallel with
>>>>>>>    industry participants.)
>>>>>>>       - There's a monthly release cycle for version updates.  So
>>>>>>>       there should be no problem with the technical point of contact to submit
>>>>>>>       changes based on that schedule.  I'll most likely be working with
>>>>>>>       *Dan* on this.
>>>>>>>       - Given that we're dealing with an extension, the lag time
>>>>>>>       between submission and implementation is not yet clear.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Did I capture the main points discussed?  Anything you'd like to
>>>>>>> correct?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  David  |  HHS IDEA Lab Entrepreneur-in-Residence  |  m:
>>>>>>> 312.401.0309  |  g: portnoy.david@gmail.com
>>>>>>>    ------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From:* Lily Peng [lhpeng@google.com]
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 09, 2015 1:48 PM
>>>>>>> *Required:* Lily Peng; Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO); Vicki Tardif
>>>>>>> Holland
>>>>>>> *Optional:* Dan Brickley
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Invitation: Call with HHS re: schema.org and health
>>>>>>> insurance @ Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:30am - 11:55am (lhpeng@google.com)
>>>>>>> *When:* Friday, July 10, 2015 2:30 PM-2:55 PM.
>>>>>>> *Where:* https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/google.com/call-with-hhs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     *more details »*
>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=b3RhZ3NwZXV0azdoN2c0bmhzbmRxY2xiMmcgZGF2aWQucG9ydG5veUBoaHMuZ292&tok=MTcjbGhwZW5nQGdvb2dsZS5jb20zNTUyMmRjN2Q1MDk5YTFmYzJhNWM4MTAyYzRmMjE1MjY3NDAyMjNi&ctz=America/Los_Angeles&hl=en>
>>>>>>> *Call with HHS re: schema.org <http://schema.org> and health
>>>>>>> insurance*
>>>>>>> Conference: 724-320-0072 PIN 35625
>>>>>>>   When Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:30am – 11:55am Pacific Time  Where
>>>>>>> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/google.com/call-with-hhs (*map*
>>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/maps?q=https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/google.com/call-with-hhs&hl=en>
>>>>>>> )  Video call
>>>>>>> *https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/google.com/call-with-hhs*
>>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/google.com/call-with-hhs?hceid=bGhwZW5nQGdvb2dsZS5jb20.otagspeutk7h7g4nhsndqclb2g>
>>>>>>> Calendar lhpeng@google.com  Who   • Lily Peng - organizer  •
>>>>>>> david.portnoy@hhs.gov  • Vicki Tardif Holland  • Dan Brickley -
>>>>>>> optional
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Going?   *Yes*
>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=b3RhZ3NwZXV0azdoN2c0bmhzbmRxY2xiMmcgZGF2aWQucG9ydG5veUBoaHMuZ292&rst=1&tok=MTcjbGhwZW5nQGdvb2dsZS5jb20zNTUyMmRjN2Q1MDk5YTFmYzJhNWM4MTAyYzRmMjE1MjY3NDAyMjNi&ctz=America/Los_Angeles&hl=en>
>>>>>>> - *Maybe*
>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=b3RhZ3NwZXV0azdoN2c0bmhzbmRxY2xiMmcgZGF2aWQucG9ydG5veUBoaHMuZ292&rst=3&tok=MTcjbGhwZW5nQGdvb2dsZS5jb20zNTUyMmRjN2Q1MDk5YTFmYzJhNWM4MTAyYzRmMjE1MjY3NDAyMjNi&ctz=America/Los_Angeles&hl=en>
>>>>>>> - *No*
>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=b3RhZ3NwZXV0azdoN2c0bmhzbmRxY2xiMmcgZGF2aWQucG9ydG5veUBoaHMuZ292&rst=2&tok=MTcjbGhwZW5nQGdvb2dsZS5jb20zNTUyMmRjN2Q1MDk5YTFmYzJhNWM4MTAyYzRmMjE1MjY3NDAyMjNi&ctz=America/Los_Angeles&hl=en>
>>>>>>> *more options »*
>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=b3RhZ3NwZXV0azdoN2c0bmhzbmRxY2xiMmcgZGF2aWQucG9ydG5veUBoaHMuZ292&tok=MTcjbGhwZW5nQGdvb2dsZS5jb20zNTUyMmRjN2Q1MDk5YTFmYzJhNWM4MTAyYzRmMjE1MjY3NDAyMjNi&ctz=America/Los_Angeles&hl=en>
>>>>>>>   Invitation from *Google Calendar*
>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/calendar/>
>>>>>>> You are receiving this courtesy email at the account
>>>>>>> david.portnoy@hhs.gov because you are an attendee of this event.
>>>>>>> To stop receiving future updates for this event, decline this event.
>>>>>>> Alternatively you can sign up for a Google account at
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>>>>>>> Forwarding this invitation could allow any recipient to modify your
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Received on Monday, 27 July 2015 08:00:18 UTC