W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-schemed@w3.org > July 2015

Re: Schema.org for health insurance: Next steps

From: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 08:51:34 +0100
Message-ID: <CAK-qy=53sz_SMeCRPCUmS-ipq3+E-9SuOEAvwbVnL+NN+v5DeA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Marc Twagirumukiza <twamarc@gmail.com>
Cc: David Portnoy <portnoy.david@gmail.com>, public-schemed@w3.org, "Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO)" <David.Portnoy@hhs.gov>, Vicki Tardif Holland <vtardif@google.com>
On 27 July 2015 at 08:34, Marc Twagirumukiza <twamarc@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> my 2 cents:
>
> The proposal we had ( (from Chris Corak) is only at hierarchy/structure
> level is not yet elaborated as the one you have here.
> So I think the harmonization of both should not be a lot of effort: just
> look at the topics which are suggested by Chris you do not cover yet and
> vice versa.
>
> But this is to help harmonizing our understanding, it's not the main point.
> The main points are 1) to have your draft in .rdfa format 2)to integrate
> it into existing health.schema.org extension proposal (link with existing
> terms, subClass harmonizations, domain/ranges links, etc).
>
> The sooner .rdfa file is available in github, the sooner the proposal can
> be submitted in time.
> We are targeting September to submit the revisited health.schema.org
> extension proposal. So let's work for this milestone and then we will see
> where we are.
>
> I see lot of challenges here, and I understand your specificities.
> Actually we had the same situation with other topic when drafting the first
> submission.
> But in your case it's not complicated as most of predicates/classes you
> proposed here are common and can be re-usable in all health insurance
> schemes even here in Europe.
> Thinking loud, I foresee as a first extension proposal a very
> common/generic structure (with at least your need info) and then other
> parties filling gaps later on.
> Therefore I would suggest to stick (for the time being) on the minimum
> mandated info and have the schema submitted.
>

Let me just add a quick observation: we have (by design) arranged the
schema.org extension mechanism so that terms can migrate between
"extensions" over time with minimal impact on end users. Each word used for
a type or property is drawn from the same "flat" namespace. This means that
the US healthcare extension could launch on its own schedule e.g. as
 something like 'healthnets', yet later be merged into a larger '
health.schema.org' effort without requiring major markup changes from
publishers. I do think we can and should move promptly on the larger health
schemas, but wanted to highlight this option too.

Dan



> Regards
> Marc Twagirumukiza
>
>
> On 27 July 2015 at 07:04, David Portnoy <portnoy.david@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Greetings Marc,
>>
>> Glad to hear that there's already an effort underway.  Thanks for
>> providing insights into the process.
>>
>> Our challenge is that we have extenuating circumstances...  In the U.S.,
>> the largest body influencing health insurance coverage and healthcare
>> provider directory standards is the government.  There's a new rule going
>> into effect this year for machine-readable files containing both healthcare
>> provider demographics and health insurance coverage.  This rule will usher
>> in financial incentives for insurance companies and healthcare providers to
>> keep their data up to date using a well-defined schema.  We want to
>> leverage the timing of this rule to deploy a related Schema.org extension.
>> The key is for this extension to be fully backwards compatible with the
>> government mandate.  In other words, our schema extension can be more
>> elaborate, but must at least be capable of handling the mandated
>> information.
>>
>> So knowing this challenge, what are your thoughts with how what we're
>> doing can coordinate with prior efforts?
>>
>>
>> David  |  HHS IDEA Lab Entrepreneur-in-Residence  |  m: 312.401.0309  |
>>  e: david.portnoy@hhs.gov  |  g: portnoy.david@gmail.com
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:54 AM, Marc Twagirumukiza <twamarc@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi David,
>>> Thanks sharing this. I think we can coordinate here with the revisit of
>>> the health.schema.org extension going on.
>>> Actually the topic was already on the table for discussions:
>>> https://github.com/twamarc/ScheMed/issues/3 (from From: Chris Corak)
>>> and it was raised also in mailing list of the  Healthcare Schema
>>> Vocabulary Community Group <http://www.w3.org/community/schemed/> [see:
>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schemed/2015Jul/0000.html].
>>>
>>> This seems advanced and already structured. The drawback is extensive
>>> and needs a time to digest. Let's see a smart way to coordinate:
>>>
>>> I would propose the following:
>>>
>>> -Can you have a look on the first structure proposal
>>> https://github.com/twamarc/ScheMed/issues/3 (from From: Chris Corak)
>>> and consolidate yours. The purpose here is to work on a single file version
>>>
>>> -To browse the existing health.schema.org proposal (although it's under
>>> restructuring process), this will provide you insight of how to integrate
>>> the health insurance vocabulary.
>>> http://demoschemed.appspot.com/MedicalEntity
>>>
>>> -To generate a single rdfa file health insurance vocabulary and commit
>>> it to schemed git hub repository: so others colleagues can discuss this
>>> https://github.com/twamarc/ScheMed
>>>
>>> -Once we get consensus there, it will be merged with the extension
>>> proposal.
>>>
>>> -Normally we plan a meeting in the last week of August, it would help if
>>> someone from your team can attend.
>>> Please fill in this doodle pool, for suitable hours.
>>> *http://doodle.com/dzap4aa5caf3xzw4*
>>> <http://doodle.com/dzap4aa5caf3xzw4>
>>>
>>> -The timeline for the health.schema.org extension is to finalise all
>>> discussions for the existing version by Q3 2015 and submit it (hope to get
>>> it published in Q4). Sure we will keep improving it version by version and
>>> extend it when needed.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Marc Twagirumukiza
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 July 2015 at 01:26, Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO) <
>>> David.Portnoy@hhs.gov> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Vicki,
>>>> Thanks for the intro.
>>>>
>>>>  Marc,
>>>> Happy to talk.  We're creating schemas
>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/11JiYc9PIxIzmgGCSDOUvvkvmmwl0-UvUos2twIEnP64>
>>>> driven by legislation in the U.S.  This schema includes healthcare provider
>>>> directory, demographics, quality attributes, and health insurance
>>>> coverage.  Ultimately, it's intended to help consumers navigate the
>>>> healthcare system.  We focus more on interoperability among the many layers
>>>> of industry participants than on vocabulary.
>>>>
>>>>  Let me know your thoughts on how we should (or shouldn't)
>>>> coordinate.  Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   David  |  HHS IDEA Lab Entrepreneur-in-Residence  |  m: 312.401.0309
>>>>  |  e: david.portnoy@hhs.gov  |  g: portnoy.david@gmail.com
>>>>    ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Vicki Tardif Holland [vtardif@google.com]
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:51 AM
>>>> *To:* Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO); Dan Brickley
>>>> *Subject:* Re: Schema.org for health insurance: Next steps
>>>>
>>>>   +danbri@google.com
>>>>
>>>>  Hi David,
>>>>
>>>>  You can reach out to schemed@googlegroups.com or to their leader Marc
>>>> Twagirumukiza <twamarc@gmail.com> directly.
>>>>
>>>>  This is timely as they are discussing whether to go into
>>>> insurance-related schema.
>>>>
>>>>  - Vicki
>>>>
>>>>   Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vtardif@google.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO) <
>>>> David.Portnoy@hhs.gov> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Vicki,
>>>>>
>>>>>  How do we reach people the helped design MedicalOrganization and
>>>>> Drug for comments and questions?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   David  |  HHS IDEA Lab Entrepreneur-in-Residence  |  m: 312.401.0309
>>>>>  |  e: david.portnoy@hhs.gov  |  g: portnoy.david@gmail.com
>>>>>    ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO)
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 9:55 AM
>>>>> *To:* Vicki Tardif Holland
>>>>> *Cc:* Lily Peng; Dan Brickley; Aneesh Chopra; Kapil Parakh; David
>>>>> Portnoy (portnoy.david@gmail.com)
>>>>> *Subject:* RE: Schema.org for health insurance: Next steps
>>>>>
>>>>>    Thanks Vicki!
>>>>>
>>>>>  I'm starting to review it and asking others to provide input.  I'd
>>>>> like to give it a couple days and then move forward with the first
>>>>> version.  Due to the desire to stay compatible with the regulatorily
>>>>> imposed standard, we might need to keep most of the original fields, but
>>>>> supplement them with additional fields that would help industry
>>>>> participants run their business and serve consumers.
>>>>>
>>>>>   David  |  HHS IDEA Lab Entrepreneur-in-Residence  |  m: 312.401.0309
>>>>>  |  e: david.portnoy@hhs.gov  |  g: portnoy.david@gmail.com
>>>>>    ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Vicki Tardif Holland [vtardif@google.com]
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 2:50 PM
>>>>> *To:* Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO)
>>>>> *Cc:* Lily Peng; Dan Brickley; Aneesh Chopra; Kapil Parakh
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Schema.org for health insurance: Next steps
>>>>>
>>>>>   Here
>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LNew5OEon4uir2D5Zzp0AkUPA7c9nO8reJ_M1pOy-3s/edit?usp=sharing>
>>>>> is a pass at converting the CMS proposal to a schema.org extension.
>>>>> There are a few types like http://schema.org/MedicalOrganization and
>>>>> http://schema.org/Drug which may require some coordination with the
>>>>> schema.org medical community.
>>>>>
>>>>>  - Vicki
>>>>>
>>>>>   Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vtardif@google.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO) <
>>>>> David.Portnoy@hhs.gov> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Lily, Vicki,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Just checking in.  Wanted to make sure the items I listed below are
>>>>>> accurate.  Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  David  |  HHS IDEA Lab Entrepreneur-in-Residence  |  m: 312.401.0309
>>>>>> |  g: portnoy.david@gmail.com
>>>>>>    ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO)
>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 10, 2015 7:43 PM
>>>>>> *To:* Lily Peng; Vicki Tardif Holland
>>>>>> *Cc:* Dan Brickley; Aneesh Chopra
>>>>>> *Subject:* Schema.org for health insurance: Next steps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Lily, Vicki,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Thanks for jumping on the call.  I wanted to follow up with the next
>>>>>> steps and make sure I understood everything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    1. *First draft:* *Vicki* will go ahead and create a first draft
>>>>>>    of the schema based on the elements identified the schema
>>>>>>    proposed by CMS
>>>>>>    <https://docs.google.com/document/d/11JiYc9PIxIzmgGCSDOUvvkvmmwl0-UvUos2twIEnP64>.
>>>>>>    She's targeting to get something back to us by *Friday 7/17*.
>>>>>>       - It will be written up as a reviewed *extension*, rather than
>>>>>>       a new schema.  This is due in part to the fact that it might have limited
>>>>>>       usefulness outside of the U.S.
>>>>>>       - *Vicki* will identify and try to resolve conflicts in naming
>>>>>>       with existing schemas.  *Lily* should be able to help with the
>>>>>>       conflicts, given her domain expertise in healthcare.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        2. *Publishing on Schema.org:* Assuming the draft schema
>>>>>>    looks good, it should take about *2 weeks* to get it up on the
>>>>>>    Schema.org website.
>>>>>>       - All this is independent of the group governance structure we
>>>>>>       use.  There's no single best practice.  In the interest of efficiency,
>>>>>>       we'll stay away from a process-heavy approach.  We might still choose to
>>>>>>       use a W3C wiki and mailing list.
>>>>>>       - At this point website owners can choose to publish to the
>>>>>>       schema, but it will not yet be picked up.
>>>>>>          - But they should be able to use validators to test for
>>>>>>          conformance.
>>>>>>          - We'll publish notifications to the community describing
>>>>>>          availability.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           3. *Updating the search engine:* The next step would be
>>>>>>    for *Vicki* to shop the schema around within google, since each
>>>>>>    search engine component team (such as Local, Plus, Knowledge Panel) decides
>>>>>>    its own development priories.  *Vicki* or *Dan* will try to get
>>>>>>    us implementation estimates.
>>>>>>       - I'll serve as the technical point of contact for formulating
>>>>>>       specifications and will most likely be working with *Dan*.
>>>>>>       - The extension development process is not yet well defined.
>>>>>>       So it's hard to predict completion dates.
>>>>>>       - I'll be notified when each of the teams adds the schema to
>>>>>>       their code base.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        4. *Notifying the community:* When the search engine changes
>>>>>>    are operational, we'll have another series of releases and communications
>>>>>>    to the community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    5. *Making version updates:* These schema will no doubt evolve as
>>>>>>    regulatory rules are adjusted, industry practices change, and new
>>>>>>    market participants enter.  (Already we know that CMS might tweak the
>>>>>>    latest version and there are conversations happening in parallel with
>>>>>>    industry participants.)
>>>>>>       - There's a monthly release cycle for version updates.  So
>>>>>>       there should be no problem with the technical point of contact to submit
>>>>>>       changes based on that schedule.  I'll most likely be working with
>>>>>>       *Dan* on this.
>>>>>>       - Given that we're dealing with an extension, the lag time
>>>>>>       between submission and implementation is not yet clear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Did I capture the main points discussed?  Anything you'd like to
>>>>>> correct?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  David  |  HHS IDEA Lab Entrepreneur-in-Residence  |  m: 312.401.0309
>>>>>> |  g: portnoy.david@gmail.com
>>>>>>    ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* Lily Peng [lhpeng@google.com]
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 09, 2015 1:48 PM
>>>>>> *Required:* Lily Peng; Portnoy, David (OS/ASA/OCIO); Vicki Tardif
>>>>>> Holland
>>>>>> *Optional:* Dan Brickley
>>>>>> *Subject:* Invitation: Call with HHS re: schema.org and health
>>>>>> insurance @ Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:30am - 11:55am (lhpeng@google.com)
>>>>>> *When:* Friday, July 10, 2015 2:30 PM-2:55 PM.
>>>>>> *Where:* https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/google.com/call-with-hhs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     *more details »*
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=b3RhZ3NwZXV0azdoN2c0bmhzbmRxY2xiMmcgZGF2aWQucG9ydG5veUBoaHMuZ292&tok=MTcjbGhwZW5nQGdvb2dsZS5jb20zNTUyMmRjN2Q1MDk5YTFmYzJhNWM4MTAyYzRmMjE1MjY3NDAyMjNi&ctz=America/Los_Angeles&hl=en>
>>>>>> *Call with HHS re: schema.org <http://schema.org> and health
>>>>>> insurance*
>>>>>> Conference: 724-320-0072 PIN 35625
>>>>>>   When Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:30am – 11:55am Pacific Time  Where
>>>>>> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/google.com/call-with-hhs (*map*
>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/maps?q=https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/google.com/call-with-hhs&hl=en>
>>>>>> )  Video call
>>>>>> *https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/google.com/call-with-hhs*
>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/google.com/call-with-hhs?hceid=bGhwZW5nQGdvb2dsZS5jb20.otagspeutk7h7g4nhsndqclb2g>
>>>>>> Calendar lhpeng@google.com  Who   • Lily Peng - organizer  •
>>>>>> david.portnoy@hhs.gov  • Vicki Tardif Holland  • Dan Brickley -
>>>>>> optional
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Going?   *Yes*
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=b3RhZ3NwZXV0azdoN2c0bmhzbmRxY2xiMmcgZGF2aWQucG9ydG5veUBoaHMuZ292&rst=1&tok=MTcjbGhwZW5nQGdvb2dsZS5jb20zNTUyMmRjN2Q1MDk5YTFmYzJhNWM4MTAyYzRmMjE1MjY3NDAyMjNi&ctz=America/Los_Angeles&hl=en>
>>>>>> - *Maybe*
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=b3RhZ3NwZXV0azdoN2c0bmhzbmRxY2xiMmcgZGF2aWQucG9ydG5veUBoaHMuZ292&rst=3&tok=MTcjbGhwZW5nQGdvb2dsZS5jb20zNTUyMmRjN2Q1MDk5YTFmYzJhNWM4MTAyYzRmMjE1MjY3NDAyMjNi&ctz=America/Los_Angeles&hl=en>
>>>>>> - *No*
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=b3RhZ3NwZXV0azdoN2c0bmhzbmRxY2xiMmcgZGF2aWQucG9ydG5veUBoaHMuZ292&rst=2&tok=MTcjbGhwZW5nQGdvb2dsZS5jb20zNTUyMmRjN2Q1MDk5YTFmYzJhNWM4MTAyYzRmMjE1MjY3NDAyMjNi&ctz=America/Los_Angeles&hl=en>
>>>>>> *more options »*
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=b3RhZ3NwZXV0azdoN2c0bmhzbmRxY2xiMmcgZGF2aWQucG9ydG5veUBoaHMuZ292&tok=MTcjbGhwZW5nQGdvb2dsZS5jb20zNTUyMmRjN2Q1MDk5YTFmYzJhNWM4MTAyYzRmMjE1MjY3NDAyMjNi&ctz=America/Los_Angeles&hl=en>
>>>>>>   Invitation from *Google Calendar*
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/calendar/>
>>>>>> You are receiving this courtesy email at the account
>>>>>> david.portnoy@hhs.gov because you are an attendee of this event.
>>>>>> To stop receiving future updates for this event, decline this event.
>>>>>> Alternatively you can sign up for a Google account at
>>>>>> https://www.google.com/calendar/ and control your notification
>>>>>> settings for your entire calendar.
>>>>>> Forwarding this invitation could allow any recipient to modify your
>>>>>> RSVP response. Learn more at
>>>>>> https://support.google.com/calendar/answer/37135#forwarding
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Received on Monday, 27 July 2015 07:52:40 UTC

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