- From: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
- Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 15:17:10 +0000
- To: Vicki Tardif <vtardif@google.com>
- Cc: Stephen Hamilton <stephen@mettlepress.com.au>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAD47Kz4sR89fLNn2O1X3DNgEJzEZeQr=Ekvq74t+5kcPN9BEbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Issue #246 <https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/246> seemed to
get hung up on per country legal definitions and trying to identify
specific subtypes of Organization..
May be still open to some interpretation, but this proposal seems to be
more simple by adding a *profitStatus *property for both Organization and
Service.
~Richard
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 15:09, Vicki Tardif <vtardif@google.com> wrote:
> Yes, we got hung up on non-profit status a few years ago in issue #246
> <https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/246>.
>
> - Vicki
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:01 AM Stephen Hamilton <
> stephen@mettlepress.com.au> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Richard, this is an important distinction.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Stephen Hamilton
>>
>> Sent from mobile device
>>
>> On 24 Mar 2020, at 11:16 pm, Richard Wallis <
>> richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> A not for profit status is potentially useful property to convey.
>>
>> However I believe there are two facets to this. There are indeed *not
>> for profit* organisations, there are also *not for profit *services that
>> are not necessarily only offered by such organisations.
>>
>> Some for profit organisations offer *charitable* / *pro bono* / *not for
>> profit* services alongside their commercial operations. I have even
>> worked for a not for profit organisation that offered for profit services
>> to help support its other operations..
>>
>> To support such distinctions it would be appropriate to add the
>> *profitStatus* property to both the Organization
>> <https://schema.org/Organization> and Service
>> <https://schema.org/Service> types.
>>
>>
>> Richard Wallis
>> Founder, Data Liberate
>> http://dataliberate.com
>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
>> Twitter: @rjw
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 19:47, Alan LaFrance <stidotorg@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew,
>>>
>>> Good points.
>>>
>>> Can you think of some test cases that would challenge either of the
>>> methods? Perhaps we can work the problem backwards and arrive at a more
>>> robust solution.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:52 PM Andrew Crimer <andrew.crimer@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> (forgot to cc the list)
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: Andrew Crimer <andrew.crimer@gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 2:48 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Public Interest legal aid markup
>>>> To: Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A note on the complexity here: there are many types of corporation and
>>>> they vary substantially by jurisdiction. "profitStatus" probably can't
>>>> effectively be made binary. Incentives, i.e. "will never charge you money,"
>>>> are probably even more complicated. In the United States, IRC section 501c
>>>> has 29 subsections <https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/501>,
>>>> each with various additional cases attached. I'm not advocating for
>>>> encoding the US tax code into schema, but I do think it bears mentioning
>>>> that "for profit" and "not for profit" are both subject to change over time
>>>> and extremely broad generalizations.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 2:44 PM Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>
>>>>> I like the profitStatus property, because there are many non-profit
>>>>> organizations that do not primarily identify as an ‘NGO’ — but still want
>>>>> to communicate that they are non-commercial, public-interest, and will
>>>>> never charge you money/sell your data.
>>>>>
>>>>> The ICNPO can be fine, though it’s definitely higher burden to do the
>>>>> classification than the profitStatus.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks so much for your thoughts! Best, Margaret
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On March 24, 2020 at 11:37:03 AM, Alan LaFrance (stidotorg@gmail.com)
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Margaret,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this exposes a gap in the existing schema, as you mentioned.
>>>>>
>>>>> I’d like to advocate for adding an optional property called
>>>>> profitStatus to Organization that notates the status of an org as “for
>>>>> profit” or “non profit.”
>>>>>
>>>>> Alternatively, we could use ICNPO classifications as guidance for a
>>>>> more granular method. (See link below)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/en/catalogue/13-015-X
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Alan LaFrance
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:06 PM Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m working with various legal aid groups and other ‘public
>>>>>> interest/non-profit’ legal groups on marking up their online resources.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am running into a few limitations/areas for help.` If you have any
>>>>>> thoughts, edits, reactions — I’d really appreciate it! Best, Margaret
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *1) Organization Type:* Should we be tagging a non-profit legal
>>>>>> information/services as an ‘NGO’ or as a ‘Legal Service’? The ideal is that
>>>>>> we are communicating to the public that the sites are:
>>>>>> - public interest and free
>>>>>> - offering info + services related to legal problems
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ideally there would be another category like ‘Non-profit Legal
>>>>>> Service’ or ‘Legal Aid’
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *2) Issue Expertise:* What’s the best way to label the areas of law
>>>>>> that a legal aid or free legal info site might help a person with? For
>>>>>> example, to let people know they have help with domestic violence; child
>>>>>> custody; landlord-tenant problems; migrant worker problems, etc?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now, we are using ‘knowsAbout’ and then linking to a URL with a
>>>>>> taxonomy entry for that legal problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Has anyone used any other strategy for this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *3) Jurisdiction Coverage:* Ideally we could label the organization
>>>>>> and services very precisely with what cities, counties, or states their
>>>>>> info/services apply to. For example, some of the housing law pages are only
>>>>>> for certain cities, while some family/child custody are only for people in
>>>>>> a certain state.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are currently using Administrative Area and listing these
>>>>>> different city/county/state units as text entries — but ideally we could be
>>>>>> more precise than text. Has anyone used other strategies for communicating
>>>>>> the jurisdictions that particular rules or services apply to?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For more detail, here are some of the sample drafts of markup that
>>>>>> our groups are working on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@context": "http://www.schema.org",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@type": "LegalService",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "name": "Idaho Legal Aid Services",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "url": "https://www.idaholegalaid.org/",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "description": "Idaho Legal Aid Services is a nonprofit statewide
>>>>>> law firm dedicated to providing equal access to justice for low income
>>>>>> people through quality advocacy and education.",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "logo": "
>>>>>> https://www.idaholegalaid.org/sites/idaholegalaid.org/files/ilas-logo-100.png
>>>>>> ",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "address": {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "streetAddress": "1447 S. Tyrell Lane
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1447+S.+Tyrell+Lane?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>> ",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressLocality": "Boise",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressRegion": "ID",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "postalCode": 83706
>>>>>>
>>>>>> },
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "areaServed": [
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@type": "AdministrativeArea",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "name": "Idaho"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ],
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "telephone": "208-746-7541 <(208)%20746-7541>",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "openingHours": [
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mo 08:30-17:00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Tu 08:30-17:00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We 08:30-17:00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Th 08:30-17:00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Fr 08:30-17:00"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ],
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "isAccessibleForFree": true,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "knowsAbout": [
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/IM-13-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/MO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/NA-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-07-00-00-00”,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-15-00-00-00”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ],
>>>>>>
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@context": "http://www.schema.org",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@type": "LegalService",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "name": "Legal Services of North Florida",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "url": "https://www.lsnf.org/",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "description": "LSNF is a not-for-profit legal services
>>>>>> organization serving only low-income individuals and families in sixteen
>>>>>> counties across Florida’s central and western panhandle. LSNF’s priority
>>>>>> areas are cases involving Family Law, Housing, Public Benefits, Employment,
>>>>>> Education, and Health Care issues. It does not help with traffic tickets,
>>>>>> car injuries, or defending criminal actions.",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "logo": "
>>>>>> https://www.lsnf.org/wp-content/themes/LSNFtheme/assets/images/Logo.png
>>>>>> ",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "alternateName": "LSNF",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "telephone": "(850) 385-9007",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "address": [
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "streetAddress": "2119 Delta Boulevard
>>>>>> <https://www..google.com/maps/search/2119+Delta+Boulevard?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>> ",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressLocality": "Tallahassee",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "postalCode": “32303”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> },
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "areaServed": [
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@type": "AdministrativeArea",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "name": "[“Bay County, FL”, “Calhoun County, FL”, “Escambia
>>>>>> County, FL”, “Franklin County, FL”, “Gadsden County, FL”, “Gulf County,
>>>>>> FL”, “Holmes County, FL”, “Jackson County, FL”, “Jefferson County, FL”,
>>>>>> “Leon County, FL”, “Liberty County, FL”, “Okaloosa County, FL”, “Santa Rosa
>>>>>> County, FL”, “Wakulla County, FL”, “Walton County, FL”, “Washington County,
>>>>>> FL”]"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ],
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "isAccessibleForFree": true,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "openingHours": [
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mo 09:00-17:00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Tu 09:00-17:00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We 09:00-17:00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Th 09:00-17:00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Fr 09:00-17:00"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ],
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "contactPoint": [
>>>>>>
>>>>>> { "@type": "ContactPoint",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "url": "
>>>>>> https://floi.legalserver.org/modules/matter/extern_intake.php?pid=38&h=757e8c
>>>>>> ",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "contactType": "Online Intake",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "areaServed": "Florida"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> },
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "availableLanguage": [
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@type": "Language",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "name": "English",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "alternateName": "English"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "serviceLocation": [
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Pensacola office”,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “telephone” : “(850) 432-8222”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “address”: {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "streetAddress": "118 South Baylen Street
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/118+South+Baylen+Street?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>> ",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressLocality": "Pensacola",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "postalCode": 32502
>>>>>>
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> },
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Quincy Office”,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “telephone” : “(850) 875-9881”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “address”: {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "streetAddress": "121 North Jackson Street
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/121+North+Jackson+Street?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>> ",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressLocality": "Quincy",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "postalCode": 32303
>>>>>>
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> },
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Ft. Walton Beach”,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “telephone” : “(850) 862-3279”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “address”: {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "streetAddress": "133 Staff Drive, NE
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/133+Staff+Drive,+NE?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>> ",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressLocality": "Ft. Walton Beach",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "postalCode": 32548
>>>>>>
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> },
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Panama City office”,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “telephone” : “(850) 769-3581”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “address”: {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "streetAddress": "211 East 11th Street
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/211+East+11th+Street?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>> ",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressLocality": "Panama City",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "postalCode": 32401
>>>>>>
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> },
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Tallahassee office”,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “telephone” : “(850) 385-9007”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “address”: {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "streetAddress": "2119 Delta Blvd
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2119+Delta+Blvd?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>> .,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressLocality": "Tallahassee",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "postalCode": 32303”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@context": "http://www.schema.org",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@type": "LegalService",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "name": "Law Help NY",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "url": "https://www.lawhelpny.org/",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "description": "Access to legal information and free legal help for
>>>>>> New Yokers in need of legal assistance.",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "image": "
>>>>>> https://www.lawhelpny.org/files/B23B29BF-0DED-F7B9-2149-1DB14E1A7DE5/images/LHNY%203_20.png
>>>>>> ",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "logo": "
>>>>>> https://www.lawhelpny.org/files/B23B29BF-0DED-F7B9-2149-1DB14E1A7DE5/images/LHNY%203_20.png
>>>>>> ",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "isAccessibleForFree": true,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "areaServed": [
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@type": "AdministrativeArea",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "name": "New York"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ],
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "knowsAbout": [
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/DI-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/CO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/WO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/MO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/ES-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/GO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/VE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/RI-00-00-00-00"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ],
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "description": "Legal information for New Yorkers who cannot afford
>>>>>> an attorney.",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "availableLanguage": {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "@type": "Language",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "name": [
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "English",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Spanish",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "French",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Korean",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Russian",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Polish",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Vietnamese",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Haitian; Haitian Creole",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Arabic",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Italian",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Tagalog"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> },
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "email": "info@nylawhelp.org"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> acrimer.com
>>>> <https://acrimer.com?utm_source=signature&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=passive>
>>>> schedule a call <https://calendly.com/acrimer>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> acrimer.com
>>>> <https://acrimer.com?utm_source=signature&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=passive>
>>>> schedule a call <https://calendly.com/acrimer>
>>>>
>>>
Received on Wednesday, 25 March 2020 15:17:39 UTC