- From: Vicki Tardif <vtardif@google.com>
- Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 11:09:02 -0400
- To: Stephen Hamilton <stephen@mettlepress.com.au>
- Cc: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAOr1obHD=rQ32RmG94SZCuRHGxT+Ty2ET_Cq9FTjLW+j9x8YaA@mail.gmail.com>
Yes, we got hung up on non-profit status a few years ago in issue #246
<https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/246>.
- Vicki
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:01 AM Stephen Hamilton <stephen@mettlepress.com.au>
wrote:
> I agree with Richard, this is an important distinction.
>
> Regards,
>
> Stephen Hamilton
>
> Sent from mobile device
>
> On 24 Mar 2020, at 11:16 pm, Richard Wallis <
> richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote:
>
>
> A not for profit status is potentially useful property to convey.
>
> However I believe there are two facets to this. There are indeed *not
> for profit* organisations, there are also *not for profit *services that
> are not necessarily only offered by such organisations.
>
> Some for profit organisations offer *charitable* / *pro bono* / *not for
> profit* services alongside their commercial operations. I have even
> worked for a not for profit organisation that offered for profit services
> to help support its other operations..
>
> To support such distinctions it would be appropriate to add the
> *profitStatus* property to both the Organization
> <https://schema.org/Organization> and Service <https://schema.org/Service>
> types.
>
>
> Richard Wallis
> Founder, Data Liberate
> http://dataliberate.com
> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
> Twitter: @rjw
>
>
>
> On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 19:47, Alan LaFrance <stidotorg@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Good points.
>>
>> Can you think of some test cases that would challenge either of the
>> methods? Perhaps we can work the problem backwards and arrive at a more
>> robust solution.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:52 PM Andrew Crimer <andrew.crimer@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> (forgot to cc the list)
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: Andrew Crimer <andrew.crimer@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 2:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Public Interest legal aid markup
>>> To: Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
>>>
>>>
>>> A note on the complexity here: there are many types of corporation and
>>> they vary substantially by jurisdiction. "profitStatus" probably can't
>>> effectively be made binary. Incentives, i.e. "will never charge you money,"
>>> are probably even more complicated. In the United States, IRC section 501c
>>> has 29 subsections <https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/501>,
>>> each with various additional cases attached. I'm not advocating for
>>> encoding the US tax code into schema, but I do think it bears mentioning
>>> that "for profit" and "not for profit" are both subject to change over time
>>> and extremely broad generalizations.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 2:44 PM Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> I like the profitStatus property, because there are many non-profit
>>>> organizations that do not primarily identify as an ‘NGO’ — but still want
>>>> to communicate that they are non-commercial, public-interest, and will
>>>> never charge you money/sell your data.
>>>>
>>>> The ICNPO can be fine, though it’s definitely higher burden to do the
>>>> classification than the profitStatus.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks so much for your thoughts! Best, Margaret
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On March 24, 2020 at 11:37:03 AM, Alan LaFrance (stidotorg@gmail.com)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Margaret,
>>>>
>>>> I think this exposes a gap in the existing schema, as you mentioned.
>>>>
>>>> I’d like to advocate for adding an optional property called
>>>> profitStatus to Organization that notates the status of an org as “for
>>>> profit” or “non profit.”
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, we could use ICNPO classifications as guidance for a
>>>> more granular method. (See link below)
>>>>
>>>> https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/en/catalogue/13-015-X
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Alan LaFrance
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:06 PM Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m working with various legal aid groups and other ‘public
>>>>> interest/non-profit’ legal groups on marking up their online resources.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am running into a few limitations/areas for help.` If you have any
>>>>> thoughts, edits, reactions — I’d really appreciate it! Best, Margaret
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *1) Organization Type:* Should we be tagging a non-profit legal
>>>>> information/services as an ‘NGO’ or as a ‘Legal Service’? The ideal is that
>>>>> we are communicating to the public that the sites are:
>>>>> - public interest and free
>>>>> - offering info + services related to legal problems
>>>>>
>>>>> Ideally there would be another category like ‘Non-profit Legal
>>>>> Service’ or ‘Legal Aid’
>>>>>
>>>>> *2) Issue Expertise:* What’s the best way to label the areas of law
>>>>> that a legal aid or free legal info site might help a person with? For
>>>>> example, to let people know they have help with domestic violence; child
>>>>> custody; landlord-tenant problems; migrant worker problems, etc?
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now, we are using ‘knowsAbout’ and then linking to a URL with a
>>>>> taxonomy entry for that legal problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone used any other strategy for this?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *3) Jurisdiction Coverage:* Ideally we could label the organization
>>>>> and services very precisely with what cities, counties, or states their
>>>>> info/services apply to. For example, some of the housing law pages are only
>>>>> for certain cities, while some family/child custody are only for people in
>>>>> a certain state.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are currently using Administrative Area and listing these different
>>>>> city/county/state units as text entries — but ideally we could be more
>>>>> precise than text. Has anyone used other strategies for communicating the
>>>>> jurisdictions that particular rules or services apply to?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> For more detail, here are some of the sample drafts of markup that our
>>>>> groups are working on.
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>
>>>>> "@context": "http://www.schema.org",
>>>>>
>>>>> "@type": "LegalService",
>>>>>
>>>>> "name": "Idaho Legal Aid Services",
>>>>>
>>>>> "url": "https://www.idaholegalaid.org/",
>>>>>
>>>>> "description": "Idaho Legal Aid Services is a nonprofit statewide
>>>>> law firm dedicated to providing equal access to justice for low income
>>>>> people through quality advocacy and education.",
>>>>>
>>>>> "logo": "
>>>>> https://www.idaholegalaid.org/sites/idaholegalaid.org/files/ilas-logo-100.png
>>>>> ",
>>>>>
>>>>> "address": {
>>>>>
>>>>> "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>>
>>>>> "streetAddress": "1447 S. Tyrell Lane
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1447+S.+Tyrell+Lane?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>> ",
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressLocality": "Boise",
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressRegion": "ID",
>>>>>
>>>>> "postalCode": 83706
>>>>>
>>>>> },
>>>>>
>>>>> "areaServed": [
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>
>>>>> "@type": "AdministrativeArea",
>>>>>
>>>>> "name": "Idaho"
>>>>>
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> ],
>>>>>
>>>>> "telephone": "208-746-7541 <(208)%20746-7541>",
>>>>>
>>>>> "openingHours": [
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mo 08:30-17:00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Tu 08:30-17:00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "We 08:30-17:00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Th 08:30-17:00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Fr 08:30-17:00"
>>>>>
>>>>> ],
>>>>>
>>>>> "isAccessibleForFree": true,
>>>>>
>>>>> "knowsAbout": [
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/IM-13-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/MO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/NA-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> “https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-07-00-00-00”,
>>>>>
>>>>> “https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-15-00-00-00”
>>>>>
>>>>> ],
>>>>>
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>
>>>>> "@context": "http://www.schema.org",
>>>>>
>>>>> "@type": "LegalService",
>>>>>
>>>>> "name": "Legal Services of North Florida",
>>>>>
>>>>> "url": "https://www.lsnf.org/",
>>>>>
>>>>> "description": "LSNF is a not-for-profit legal services organization
>>>>> serving only low-income individuals and families in sixteen counties across
>>>>> Florida’s central and western panhandle. LSNF’s priority areas are cases
>>>>> involving Family Law, Housing, Public Benefits, Employment, Education, and
>>>>> Health Care issues. It does not help with traffic tickets, car injuries, or
>>>>> defending criminal actions.",
>>>>>
>>>>> "logo": "
>>>>> https://www.lsnf.org/wp-content/themes/LSNFtheme/assets/images/Logo.png
>>>>> ",
>>>>>
>>>>> "alternateName": "LSNF",
>>>>>
>>>>> "telephone": "(850) 385-9007",
>>>>>
>>>>> "address": [
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>
>>>>> "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>>
>>>>> "streetAddress": "2119 Delta Boulevard
>>>>> <https://www..google.com/maps/search/2119+Delta+Boulevard?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>> ",
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressLocality": "Tallahassee",
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>
>>>>> "postalCode": “32303”
>>>>>
>>>>> },
>>>>>
>>>>> ]
>>>>>
>>>>> "areaServed": [
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>
>>>>> "@type": "AdministrativeArea",
>>>>>
>>>>> "name": "[“Bay County, FL”, “Calhoun County, FL”, “Escambia
>>>>> County, FL”, “Franklin County, FL”, “Gadsden County, FL”, “Gulf County,
>>>>> FL”, “Holmes County, FL”, “Jackson County, FL”, “Jefferson County, FL”,
>>>>> “Leon County, FL”, “Liberty County, FL”, “Okaloosa County, FL”, “Santa Rosa
>>>>> County, FL”, “Wakulla County, FL”, “Walton County, FL”, “Washington County,
>>>>> FL”]"
>>>>>
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> ],
>>>>>
>>>>> "isAccessibleForFree": true,
>>>>>
>>>>> "openingHours": [
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mo 09:00-17:00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Tu 09:00-17:00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "We 09:00-17:00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Th 09:00-17:00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Fr 09:00-17:00"
>>>>>
>>>>> ],
>>>>>
>>>>> "contactPoint": [
>>>>>
>>>>> { "@type": "ContactPoint",
>>>>>
>>>>> "url": "
>>>>> https://floi.legalserver.org/modules/matter/extern_intake.php?pid=38&h=757e8c
>>>>> ",
>>>>>
>>>>> "contactType": "Online Intake",
>>>>>
>>>>> "areaServed": "Florida"
>>>>>
>>>>> },
>>>>>
>>>>> ]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "availableLanguage": [
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>
>>>>> "@type": "Language",
>>>>>
>>>>> "name": "English",
>>>>>
>>>>> "alternateName": "English"
>>>>>
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> ]
>>>>>
>>>>> "serviceLocation": [
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>
>>>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>
>>>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Pensacola office”,
>>>>>
>>>>> “telephone” : “(850) 432-8222”
>>>>>
>>>>> “address”: {
>>>>>
>>>>> "streetAddress": "118 South Baylen Street
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/118+South+Baylen+Street?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>> ",
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressLocality": "Pensacola",
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>
>>>>> "postalCode": 32502
>>>>>
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> },
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>
>>>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>
>>>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Quincy Office”,
>>>>>
>>>>> “telephone” : “(850) 875-9881”
>>>>>
>>>>> “address”: {
>>>>>
>>>>> "streetAddress": "121 North Jackson Street
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/121+North+Jackson+Street?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>> ",
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressLocality": "Quincy",
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>
>>>>> "postalCode": 32303
>>>>>
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> },
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>
>>>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>
>>>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Ft. Walton Beach”,
>>>>>
>>>>> “telephone” : “(850) 862-3279”
>>>>>
>>>>> “address”: {
>>>>>
>>>>> "streetAddress": "133 Staff Drive, NE
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/133+Staff+Drive,+NE?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>> ",
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressLocality": "Ft. Walton Beach",
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>
>>>>> "postalCode": 32548
>>>>>
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> },
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>
>>>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>
>>>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Panama City office”,
>>>>>
>>>>> “telephone” : “(850) 769-3581”
>>>>>
>>>>> “address”: {
>>>>>
>>>>> "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>>
>>>>> "streetAddress": "211 East 11th Street
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/211+East+11th+Street?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>> ",
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressLocality": "Panama City",
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>
>>>>> "postalCode": 32401
>>>>>
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> },
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>
>>>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>
>>>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Tallahassee office”,
>>>>>
>>>>> “telephone” : “(850) 385-9007”
>>>>>
>>>>> “address”: {
>>>>>
>>>>> "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>>
>>>>> "streetAddress": "2119 Delta Blvd
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2119+Delta+Blvd?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>> .,
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressLocality": "Tallahassee",
>>>>>
>>>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>
>>>>> "postalCode": 32303”
>>>>>
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> ]
>>>>>
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>
>>>>> "@context": "http://www.schema.org",
>>>>>
>>>>> "@type": "LegalService",
>>>>>
>>>>> "name": "Law Help NY",
>>>>>
>>>>> "url": "https://www.lawhelpny.org/",
>>>>>
>>>>> "description": "Access to legal information and free legal help for
>>>>> New Yokers in need of legal assistance.",
>>>>>
>>>>> "image": "
>>>>> https://www.lawhelpny.org/files/B23B29BF-0DED-F7B9-2149-1DB14E1A7DE5/images/LHNY%203_20.png
>>>>> ",
>>>>>
>>>>> "logo": "
>>>>> https://www.lawhelpny.org/files/B23B29BF-0DED-F7B9-2149-1DB14E1A7DE5/images/LHNY%203_20.png
>>>>> ",
>>>>>
>>>>> "isAccessibleForFree": true,
>>>>>
>>>>> "areaServed": [
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>
>>>>> "@type": "AdministrativeArea",
>>>>>
>>>>> "name": "New York"
>>>>>
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> ],
>>>>>
>>>>> "knowsAbout": [
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/DI-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/CO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/WO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/MO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/ES-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/GO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/VE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>
>>>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/RI-00-00-00-00"
>>>>>
>>>>> ],
>>>>>
>>>>> "description": "Legal information for New Yorkers who cannot afford
>>>>> an attorney.",
>>>>>
>>>>> "availableLanguage": {
>>>>>
>>>>> "@type": "Language",
>>>>>
>>>>> "name": [
>>>>>
>>>>> "English",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Spanish",
>>>>>
>>>>> "French",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Korean",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Russian",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Polish",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Vietnamese",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Haitian; Haitian Creole",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Arabic",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Italian",
>>>>>
>>>>> "Tagalog"
>>>>>
>>>>> ]
>>>>>
>>>>> },
>>>>>
>>>>> "email": "info@nylawhelp.org"
>>>>>
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> acrimer.com
>>> <https://acrimer.com?utm_source=signature&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=passive>
>>> schedule a call <https://calendly.com/acrimer>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> acrimer.com
>>> <https://acrimer.com?utm_source=signature&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=passive>
>>> schedule a call <https://calendly.com/acrimer>
>>>
>>
Received on Wednesday, 25 March 2020 15:09:32 UTC