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Re: Public Interest legal aid markup

From: Stephen Hamilton <stephen@mettlepress.com.au>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 07:55:56 +0200
Message-Id: <17A60622-02AA-428A-936B-F8EBFB479D5B@mettlepress.com.au>
Cc: "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
To: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
I agree with Richard, this is an important distinction.

Regards,

Stephen Hamilton
 
Sent from mobile device

> On 24 Mar 2020, at 11:16 pm, Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> A not for profit status is potentially useful property to convey.   
> 
> However I believe there are two facets to this.   There are indeed not for profit organisations, there are also not for profit services that are not necessarily only offered by such organisations.  
> 
> Some for profit organisations offer charitable / pro bono / not for profit services alongside their commercial operations.   I have even worked for a not for profit organisation that offered for profit services to help support its other operations..
> 
> To support such distinctions it would be appropriate to add the profitStatus property to both the Organization and Service types.
> 
> 
> Richard Wallis
> Founder, Data Liberate
> http://dataliberate.com
> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
> Twitter: @rjw
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 19:47, Alan LaFrance <stidotorg@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Andrew,
>> 
>> Good points.
>> 
>> Can you think of some test cases that would challenge either of the methods? Perhaps we can work the problem backwards and arrive at a more robust solution.
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:52 PM Andrew Crimer <andrew.crimer@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> (forgot to cc the list)
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: Andrew Crimer <andrew.crimer@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 2:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Public Interest legal aid markup
>>> To: Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> A note on the complexity here: there are many types of corporation and they vary substantially by jurisdiction. "profitStatus" probably can't effectively be made binary. Incentives, i.e. "will never charge you money," are probably even more complicated. In the United States, IRC section 501c has 29 subsections, each with various additional cases attached. I'm not advocating for encoding the US tax code into schema, but I do think it bears mentioning that "for profit" and "not for profit" are both subject to change over time and extremely broad generalizations.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 2:44 PM Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>> Hi! 
>>>> 
>>>> I like the profitStatus property, because there are many non-profit organizations that do not primarily identify as an ‘NGO’ — but still want to communicate that they are non-commercial, public-interest, and will never charge you money/sell your data.
>>>> 
>>>> The ICNPO can be fine, though it’s definitely higher burden to do the classification than the profitStatus.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks so much for your thoughts! Best, Margaret
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On March 24, 2020 at 11:37:03 AM, Alan LaFrance (stidotorg@gmail.com) wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Margaret,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think this exposes a gap in the existing schema, as you mentioned.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’d like to advocate for adding an optional property called profitStatus to Organization that notates the status of an org as “for profit” or “non profit.”
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alternatively, we could use ICNPO classifications as guidance for a more granular method. (See link below)
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/en/catalogue/13-015-X
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Alan LaFrance
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:06 PM Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’m working with various legal aid groups and other ‘public interest/non-profit’ legal groups on marking up their online resources.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am running into a few limitations/areas for help.` If you have any thoughts, edits, reactions — I’d really appreciate it!  Best, Margaret
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1) Organization Type: Should we be tagging a non-profit legal information/services as an ‘NGO’ or as a ‘Legal Service’? The ideal is that we are communicating to the public that the sites are:
>>>>>> - public interest and free
>>>>>> - offering info + services related to legal problems
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ideally there would be another category like ‘Non-profit Legal Service’ or ‘Legal Aid’
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2) Issue Expertise: What’s the best way to label the areas of law that a legal aid or free legal info site might help a person with? For example, to let people know they have help with domestic violence; child custody; landlord-tenant problems; migrant worker problems, etc? 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Right now, we are using ‘knowsAbout’ and then linking to a URL with a taxonomy entry for that legal problem. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Has anyone used any other strategy for this?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 3) Jurisdiction Coverage: Ideally we could label the organization and services very precisely with what cities, counties, or states their info/services apply to. For example, some of the housing law pages are only for certain cities, while some family/child custody are only for people in a certain state. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We are currently using Administrative Area and listing these different city/county/state units as text entries — but ideally we could be more precise than text. Has anyone used other strategies for communicating the jurisdictions that particular rules or services apply to?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For more detail, here are some of the sample drafts of markup that our groups are working on.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "@context": "http://www.schema.org",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "@type": "LegalService",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "name": "Idaho Legal Aid Services",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "url": "https://www.idaholegalaid.org/",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "description": "Idaho Legal Aid Services is a nonprofit
>>>>>> statewide law firm dedicated to providing equal access to justice
>>>>>> for low income people through quality advocacy and
>>>>>> education.",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "logo": "https://www.idaholegalaid.org/sites/idaholegalaid.org/files/ilas-logo-100.png",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "address": {
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "streetAddress": "1447
>>>>>> S. Tyrell Lane",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "addressLocality": "Boise",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "addressRegion": "ID",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "postalCode": 83706
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   },
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "areaServed": [
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     {
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "@type":
>>>>>> "AdministrativeArea",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "name": "Idaho"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     }
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   ],
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "telephone": "208-746-7541",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "openingHours": [
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "Mo 08:30-17:00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "Tu 08:30-17:00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "We 08:30-17:00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "Th 08:30-17:00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "Fr 08:30-17:00"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   ],
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "isAccessibleForFree":
>>>>>> true,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "knowsAbout": [
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/IM-13-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/MO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/NA-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     “https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-07-00-00-00”,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     “https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-15-00-00-00”
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   ],
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> }
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>   "@context": "http://www.schema.org",
>>>>>>   "@type": "LegalService",
>>>>>>   "name": "Legal Services of North Florida",
>>>>>>   "url": "https://www.lsnf.org/",
>>>>>>   "description": "LSNF is a not-for-profit legal services organization serving only low-income individuals and families in sixteen counties across Florida’s central and western panhandle. LSNF’s priority areas are cases involving Family Law, Housing, Public Benefits, Employment, Education, and Health Care issues. It does not help with traffic tickets, car injuries, or defending criminal actions.",
>>>>>>   "logo": "https://www.lsnf.org/wp-content/themes/LSNFtheme/assets/images/Logo.png",
>>>>>>   "alternateName": "LSNF",
>>>>>>   "telephone": "(850) 385-9007",
>>>>>>   "address": [
>>>>>>     {
>>>>>>       "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>>>       "streetAddress": "2119 Delta Boulevard",
>>>>>>       "addressLocality": "Tallahassee",
>>>>>>       "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>>       "postalCode": “32303”
>>>>>>     },
>>>>>> ]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "areaServed": [
>>>>>>     {
>>>>>>       "@type": "AdministrativeArea",
>>>>>>       "name": "[“Bay County, FL”, “Calhoun County, FL”, “Escambia County, FL”, “Franklin County, FL”, “Gadsden County, FL”, “Gulf County, FL”, “Holmes County, FL”, “Jackson County, FL”, “Jefferson County, FL”, “Leon County, FL”, “Liberty County, FL”, “Okaloosa County, FL”, “Santa Rosa County, FL”, “Wakulla County, FL”, “Walton County, FL”, “Washington County, FL”]"
>>>>>>     }
>>>>>>   ],
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "isAccessibleForFree": true,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "openingHours": [
>>>>>>     "Mo 09:00-17:00",
>>>>>>     "Tu 09:00-17:00",
>>>>>>     "We 09:00-17:00",
>>>>>>     "Th 09:00-17:00",
>>>>>>     "Fr 09:00-17:00"
>>>>>>   ],
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "contactPoint": [
>>>>>>    { "@type": "ContactPoint",
>>>>>>     "url": "https://floi.legalserver.org/modules/matter/extern_intake..php?pid=38&h=757e8c",
>>>>>>     "contactType": "Online Intake",
>>>>>>     "areaServed": "Florida"
>>>>>>   },
>>>>>> ]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "availableLanguage": [
>>>>>>     {
>>>>>>       "@type": "Language",
>>>>>>       "name": "English",
>>>>>>       "alternateName": "English"
>>>>>>     }
>>>>>>   ]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "serviceLocation": [
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>     “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>>     “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Pensacola office”,
>>>>>>     “telephone” : “(850) 432-8222”
>>>>>>       “address”: {
>>>>>>   "streetAddress": "118 South Baylen Street",
>>>>>>        "addressLocality": "Pensacola",
>>>>>>        "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>>        "postalCode": 32502
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>     },
>>>>>>   {
>>>>>>     “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>>     “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Quincy Office”,
>>>>>>     “telephone” : “(850) 875-9881”
>>>>>>       “address”: {
>>>>>>   "streetAddress": "121 North Jackson Street",
>>>>>>        "addressLocality": "Quincy",
>>>>>>        "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>>        "postalCode": 32303
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>     },
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>     “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>>     “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Ft. Walton Beach”,
>>>>>>     “telephone” : “(850) 862-3279”
>>>>>>       “address”: {
>>>>>>   "streetAddress": "133 Staff Drive, NE",
>>>>>>        "addressLocality": "Ft. Walton Beach",
>>>>>>        "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>>        "postalCode": 32548
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>     },
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>     “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>>     “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Panama City office”,
>>>>>>     “telephone” : “(850) 769-3581”
>>>>>>       “address”: {
>>>>>>   "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>>>        "streetAddress": "211 East 11th Street",
>>>>>>      "addressLocality": "Panama City",
>>>>>>        "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>>        "postalCode": 32401
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>     },
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>     “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>>>     “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Tallahassee office”,
>>>>>>     “telephone” : “(850) 385-9007”
>>>>>>       “address”: {
>>>>>>   "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>>>        "streetAddress": "2119 Delta Blvd.,
>>>>>>      "addressLocality": "Tallahassee",
>>>>>>        "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>>>        "postalCode": 32303”
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>     }
>>>>>> ]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> }
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "@context": "http://www.schema.org",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "@type": "LegalService",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "name": "Law Help NY",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "url": "https://www.lawhelpny.org/",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "description": "Access
>>>>>> to legal information and free legal help for New Yokers in need of
>>>>>> legal assistance.",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "image": "https://www.lawhelpny.org/files/B23B29BF-0DED-F7B9-2149-1DB14E1A7DE5/images/LHNY%203_20.png",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "logo": "https://www.lawhelpny.org/files/B23B29BF-0DED-F7B9-2149-1DB14E1A7DE5/images/LHNY%203_20.png",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "isAccessibleForFree": true,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "areaServed": [
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     {
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "@type":
>>>>>> "AdministrativeArea",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "name": "New York"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     }
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   ],
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "knowsAbout": [
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/DI-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/CO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/WO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/MO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/ES-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/GO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/VE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/RI-00-00-00-00"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   ],
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "description": "Legal information for New Yorkers who
>>>>>> cannot afford an attorney.",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "availableLanguage": {
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "@type": "Language",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "name": [
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "English",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "Spanish",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "French",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "Korean",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "Russian",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "Polish",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "Vietnamese",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "Haitian; Haitian
>>>>>> Creole",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "Arabic",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "Italian",
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       "Tagalog"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     ]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   },
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   "email": "info@nylawhelp.org"
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> }
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> acrimer.com
>>> schedule a call
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> acrimer.com
>>> schedule a call

Received on Wednesday, 25 March 2020 05:58:10 UTC

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