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Re: Public Interest legal aid markup

From: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 21:13:04 +0000
Message-ID: <CAD47Kz7oCntj6YSXEhq2bWyN9xx3BahZFX_zm696xY+JAzfm1w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Alan LaFrance <stidotorg@gmail.com>
Cc: Andrew Crimer <andrew.crimer@gmail.com>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
A not for profit status is potentially useful property to convey.

However I believe there are two facets to this.   There are indeed *not for
profit* organisations, there are also *not for profit *services that are
not necessarily only offered by such organisations.

Some for profit organisations offer *charitable* / *pro bono* / *not for
profit* services alongside their commercial operations.   I have even
worked for a not for profit organisation that offered for profit services
to help support its other operations..

To support such distinctions it would be appropriate to add the
*profitStatus* property to both the Organization
<https://schema.org/Organization> and Service <https://schema.org/Service>
 types.


Richard Wallis
Founder, Data Liberate
http://dataliberate.com
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
Twitter: @rjw



On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 19:47, Alan LaFrance <stidotorg@gmail.com> wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> Good points.
>
> Can you think of some test cases that would challenge either of the
> methods? Perhaps we can work the problem backwards and arrive at a more
> robust solution.
>
> Alan
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:52 PM Andrew Crimer <andrew.crimer@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> (forgot to cc the list)
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: Andrew Crimer <andrew.crimer@gmail.com>
>> Date: Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 2:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: Public Interest legal aid markup
>> To: Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
>>
>>
>> A note on the complexity here: there are many types of corporation and
>> they vary substantially by jurisdiction. "profitStatus" probably can't
>> effectively be made binary. Incentives, i.e. "will never charge you money,"
>> are probably even more complicated. In the United States, IRC section 501c
>> has 29 subsections <https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/501>,
>> each with various additional cases attached. I'm not advocating for
>> encoding the US tax code into schema, but I do think it bears mentioning
>> that "for profit" and "not for profit" are both subject to change over time
>> and extremely broad generalizations.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 2:44 PM Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> I like the profitStatus property, because there are many non-profit
>>> organizations that do not primarily identify as an ‘NGO’ — but still want
>>> to communicate that they are non-commercial, public-interest, and will
>>> never charge you money/sell your data.
>>>
>>> The ICNPO can be fine, though it’s definitely higher burden to do the
>>> classification than the profitStatus.
>>>
>>> Thanks so much for your thoughts! Best, Margaret
>>>
>>>
>>> On March 24, 2020 at 11:37:03 AM, Alan LaFrance (stidotorg@gmail.com)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Margaret,
>>>
>>> I think this exposes a gap in the existing schema, as you mentioned.
>>>
>>> I’d like to advocate for adding an optional property called profitStatus
>>> to Organization that notates the status of an org as “for profit” or “non
>>> profit.”
>>>
>>> Alternatively, we could use ICNPO classifications as guidance for a more
>>> granular method. (See link below)
>>>
>>> https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/en/catalogue/13-015-X
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alan LaFrance
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:06 PM Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> I’m working with various legal aid groups and other ‘public
>>>> interest/non-profit’ legal groups on marking up their online resources.
>>>>
>>>> I am running into a few limitations/areas for help.` If you have any
>>>> thoughts, edits, reactions — I’d really appreciate it!  Best, Margaret
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *1) Organization Type:* Should we be tagging a non-profit legal
>>>> information/services as an ‘NGO’ or as a ‘Legal Service’? The ideal is that
>>>> we are communicating to the public that the sites are:
>>>> - public interest and free
>>>> - offering info + services related to legal problems
>>>>
>>>> Ideally there would be another category like ‘Non-profit Legal Service’
>>>> or ‘Legal Aid’
>>>>
>>>> *2) Issue Expertise:* What’s the best way to label the areas of law
>>>> that a legal aid or free legal info site might help a person with? For
>>>> example, to let people know they have help with domestic violence; child
>>>> custody; landlord-tenant problems; migrant worker problems, etc?
>>>>
>>>> Right now, we are using ‘knowsAbout’ and then linking to a URL with a
>>>> taxonomy entry for that legal problem.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone used any other strategy for this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *3) Jurisdiction Coverage:* Ideally we could label the organization
>>>> and services very precisely with what cities, counties, or states their
>>>> info/services apply to. For example, some of the housing law pages are only
>>>> for certain cities, while some family/child custody are only for people in
>>>> a certain state.
>>>>
>>>> We are currently using Administrative Area and listing these different
>>>> city/county/state units as text entries — but ideally we could be more
>>>> precise than text. Has anyone used other strategies for communicating the
>>>> jurisdictions that particular rules or services apply to?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> For more detail, here are some of the sample drafts of markup that our
>>>> groups are working on.
>>>>
>>>> {
>>>>
>>>>   "@context": "http://www.schema.org",
>>>>
>>>>   "@type": "LegalService",
>>>>
>>>>   "name": "Idaho Legal Aid Services",
>>>>
>>>>   "url": "https://www.idaholegalaid.org/",
>>>>
>>>>   "description": "Idaho Legal Aid Services is a nonprofit statewide law
>>>> firm dedicated to providing equal access to justice for low income people
>>>> through quality advocacy and education.",
>>>>
>>>>   "logo": "
>>>> https://www.idaholegalaid.org/sites/idaholegalaid.org/files/ilas-logo-100.png
>>>> ",
>>>>
>>>>   "address": {
>>>>
>>>>     "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>
>>>>     "streetAddress": "1447 S. Tyrell Lane
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1447+S.+Tyrell+Lane?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> ",
>>>>
>>>>     "addressLocality": "Boise",
>>>>
>>>>     "addressRegion": "ID",
>>>>
>>>>     "postalCode": 83706
>>>>
>>>>   },
>>>>
>>>>   "areaServed": [
>>>>
>>>>     {
>>>>
>>>>       "@type": "AdministrativeArea",
>>>>
>>>>       "name": "Idaho"
>>>>
>>>>     }
>>>>
>>>>   ],
>>>>
>>>>   "telephone": "208-746-7541",
>>>>
>>>>   "openingHours": [
>>>>
>>>>     "Mo 08:30-17:00",
>>>>
>>>>     "Tu 08:30-17:00",
>>>>
>>>>     "We 08:30-17:00",
>>>>
>>>>     "Th 08:30-17:00",
>>>>
>>>>     "Fr 08:30-17:00"
>>>>
>>>>   ],
>>>>
>>>>     "isAccessibleForFree": true,
>>>>
>>>>   "knowsAbout": [
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/IM-13-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/MO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/NA-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     “https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-07-00-00-00”,
>>>>
>>>>     “https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-15-00-00-00”
>>>>
>>>>   ],
>>>>
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> {
>>>>
>>>>   "@context": "http://www.schema.org",
>>>>
>>>>   "@type": "LegalService",
>>>>
>>>>   "name": "Legal Services of North Florida",
>>>>
>>>>   "url": "https://www.lsnf.org/",
>>>>
>>>>   "description": "LSNF is a not-for-profit legal services organization
>>>> serving only low-income individuals and families in sixteen counties across
>>>> Florida’s central and western panhandle. LSNF’s priority areas are cases
>>>> involving Family Law, Housing, Public Benefits, Employment, Education, and
>>>> Health Care issues. It does not help with traffic tickets, car injuries, or
>>>> defending criminal actions.",
>>>>
>>>>   "logo": "
>>>> https://www.lsnf.org/wp-content/themes/LSNFtheme/assets/images/Logo.png
>>>> ",
>>>>
>>>>   "alternateName": "LSNF",
>>>>
>>>>   "telephone": "(850) 385-9007",
>>>>
>>>>   "address": [
>>>>
>>>>     {
>>>>
>>>>       "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>
>>>>       "streetAddress": "2119 Delta Boulevard
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2119+Delta+Boulevard?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> ",
>>>>
>>>>       "addressLocality": "Tallahassee",
>>>>
>>>>       "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>
>>>>       "postalCode": “32303”
>>>>
>>>>     },
>>>>
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>> "areaServed": [
>>>>
>>>>     {
>>>>
>>>>       "@type": "AdministrativeArea",
>>>>
>>>>       "name": "[“Bay County, FL”, “Calhoun County, FL”, “Escambia
>>>> County, FL”, “Franklin County, FL”, “Gadsden County, FL”, “Gulf County,
>>>> FL”, “Holmes County, FL”, “Jackson County, FL”, “Jefferson County, FL”,
>>>> “Leon County, FL”, “Liberty County, FL”, “Okaloosa County, FL”, “Santa Rosa
>>>> County, FL”, “Wakulla County, FL”, “Walton County, FL”, “Washington County,
>>>> FL”]"
>>>>
>>>>     }
>>>>
>>>>   ],
>>>>
>>>>     "isAccessibleForFree": true,
>>>>
>>>>   "openingHours": [
>>>>
>>>>     "Mo 09:00-17:00",
>>>>
>>>>     "Tu 09:00-17:00",
>>>>
>>>>     "We 09:00-17:00",
>>>>
>>>>     "Th 09:00-17:00",
>>>>
>>>>     "Fr 09:00-17:00"
>>>>
>>>>   ],
>>>>
>>>>   "contactPoint": [
>>>>
>>>>    { "@type": "ContactPoint",
>>>>
>>>>     "url": "
>>>> https://floi.legalserver.org/modules/matter/extern_intake.php?pid=38&h=757e8c
>>>> ",
>>>>
>>>>     "contactType": "Online Intake",
>>>>
>>>>     "areaServed": "Florida"
>>>>
>>>>   },
>>>>
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   "availableLanguage": [
>>>>
>>>>     {
>>>>
>>>>       "@type": "Language",
>>>>
>>>>       "name": "English",
>>>>
>>>>       "alternateName": "English"
>>>>
>>>>     }
>>>>
>>>>   ]
>>>>
>>>> "serviceLocation": [
>>>>
>>>> {
>>>>
>>>>     “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>
>>>>     “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Pensacola office”,
>>>>
>>>>     “telephone” : “(850) 432-8222”
>>>>
>>>>       “address”: {
>>>>
>>>>   "streetAddress": "118 South Baylen Street
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/118+South+Baylen+Street?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> ",
>>>>
>>>>        "addressLocality": "Pensacola",
>>>>
>>>>        "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>
>>>>        "postalCode": 32502
>>>>
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>>     },
>>>>
>>>>   {
>>>>
>>>>     “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>
>>>>     “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Quincy Office”,
>>>>
>>>>     “telephone” : “(850) 875-9881”
>>>>
>>>>       “address”: {
>>>>
>>>>   "streetAddress": "121 North Jackson Street
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/121+North+Jackson+Street?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> ",
>>>>
>>>>        "addressLocality": "Quincy",
>>>>
>>>>        "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>
>>>>        "postalCode": 32303
>>>>
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>>     },
>>>>
>>>> {
>>>>
>>>>     “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>
>>>>     “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Ft. Walton Beach”,
>>>>
>>>>     “telephone” : “(850) 862-3279”
>>>>
>>>>       “address”: {
>>>>
>>>>   "streetAddress": "133 Staff Drive, NE
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/133+Staff+Drive,+NE?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> ",
>>>>
>>>>        "addressLocality": "Ft. Walton Beach",
>>>>
>>>>        "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>
>>>>        "postalCode": 32548
>>>>
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>>     },
>>>>
>>>> {
>>>>
>>>>     “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>
>>>>     “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Panama City office”,
>>>>
>>>>     “telephone” : “(850) 769-3581”
>>>>
>>>>       “address”: {
>>>>
>>>>   "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>
>>>>        "streetAddress": "211 East 11th Street
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/211+East+11th+Street?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> ",
>>>>
>>>>      "addressLocality": "Panama City",
>>>>
>>>>        "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>
>>>>        "postalCode": 32401
>>>>
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>>     },
>>>>
>>>> {
>>>>
>>>>     “@type”: “LegalService”
>>>>
>>>>     “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Tallahassee office”,
>>>>
>>>>     “telephone” : “(850) 385-9007”
>>>>
>>>>       “address”: {
>>>>
>>>>   "@type": "PostalAddress",
>>>>
>>>>        "streetAddress": "2119 Delta Blvd
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2119+Delta+Blvd?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> .,
>>>>
>>>>      "addressLocality": "Tallahassee",
>>>>
>>>>        "addressRegion": "FL",
>>>>
>>>>        "postalCode": 32303”
>>>>
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>>     }
>>>>
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> {
>>>>
>>>>   "@context": "http://www.schema.org",
>>>>
>>>>   "@type": "LegalService",
>>>>
>>>>   "name": "Law Help NY",
>>>>
>>>>   "url": "https://www.lawhelpny.org/",
>>>>
>>>> "description": "Access to legal information and free legal help for
>>>> New Yokers in need of legal assistance.",
>>>>
>>>>   "image": "
>>>> https://www.lawhelpny.org/files/B23B29BF-0DED-F7B9-2149-1DB14E1A7DE5/images/LHNY%203_20.png
>>>> ",
>>>>
>>>>   "logo": "
>>>> https://www.lawhelpny.org/files/B23B29BF-0DED-F7B9-2149-1DB14E1A7DE5/images/LHNY%203_20.png
>>>> ",
>>>>
>>>>   "isAccessibleForFree": true,
>>>>
>>>> "areaServed": [
>>>>
>>>>     {
>>>>
>>>>       "@type": "AdministrativeArea",
>>>>
>>>>       "name": "New York"
>>>>
>>>>     }
>>>>
>>>>   ],
>>>>
>>>>   "knowsAbout": [
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/DI-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/CO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/WO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/MO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/ES-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/GO-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/VE-00-00-00-00",
>>>>
>>>>     "https://taxonomy.legal/term/RI-00-00-00-00"
>>>>
>>>>   ],
>>>>
>>>>   "description": "Legal information for New Yorkers who cannot afford
>>>> an attorney.",
>>>>
>>>>   "availableLanguage": {
>>>>
>>>>     "@type": "Language",
>>>>
>>>>     "name": [
>>>>
>>>>       "English",
>>>>
>>>>       "Spanish",
>>>>
>>>>       "French",
>>>>
>>>>       "Korean",
>>>>
>>>>       "Russian",
>>>>
>>>>       "Polish",
>>>>
>>>>       "Vietnamese",
>>>>
>>>>       "Haitian; Haitian Creole",
>>>>
>>>>       "Arabic",
>>>>
>>>>       "Italian",
>>>>
>>>>       "Tagalog"
>>>>
>>>>     ]
>>>>
>>>>   },
>>>>
>>>>   "email": "info@nylawhelp.org"
>>>>
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>
Received on Tuesday, 24 March 2020 21:13:35 UTC

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