Re: Proposal – extension for Athletics

most should be an award with a datawiki uri to provide context imho.

On Fri, 19 May 2017 at 01:22 Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com> wrote:

> Fair enough VickI. And I really don't think these types of awards are
> prizes.
>
> From a modelling perspective I think the salient challenge here is how to
> represent an award that's awarded annually or at some other interval - as
> opposed to an ad hoc award, or something "awarded" for completing something
> (e.g. certificate of achievement).
>
> On May 18, 2017 8:01 AM, "Vicki Tardif Holland" <vtardif@google.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Without wanting to be contrary, even for something like the Fields Medal
>>> 1998 or Nobel Prize for Literature 2001 I think Thad's "prize" definition
>>> is more applicable than his "award, badge, achievement" definition.  At
>>> least in the sense you don't get a Nobel Prize for, say, finishing writing
>>> something, but for being the best writer of things among an implicit but
>>> very real field of competitors (all writers of things, for the Fields all
>>> practitioners of mathematics).  So I do think that it *is* actually
>>> more like a prize for athletics than an award for passing an exam.  On the
>>> other hand, I do concede that a Nobel Prize isn't awarded for an event per
>>> se - almost more like a prize awarded for a *season *(analogous in
>>> sport to something like the Heisman Trophy, although there the competitors
>>> - nominees for the award - are explicit).
>>
>>
>> This feels like trying to shoehorn something into an overly narrow
>> definition. Things like the Nobel Prize are for a body of work, which
>> generally does not have clean cut start/end dates.
>>
>> And what do you do with things like the Grammy Lifetime Achievement
>> Award? To say Michael Jackson was the "best musician" is an odd
>> interpretation of that award.
>>
>> - Vicki
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 6:32 PM, Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks all for your input.  I especially like your classifications of
>>> awards and prizes Thad, and the narrower definition of prize you provide -
>>> though regarding that definition, only to a point:
>>> > Prize - award given to a winner of a competitive event
>>>
>>> I'm more aligned with Phil here:
>>> > So how about changing the definition to explicitly say what Aaron
>>> asserted (and allow for >1 prize):
>>> > "A prize awarded for a competition"
>>>
>>> Though mostly for the "and allow for >1 prize" part, so the Thad
>>> definition might be modified to say:
>>> "Prize - award given to a winner or winners of a competitive event"
>>>
>>> Examples of prizes awarded to more than one winner of a competition
>>> abound, of course - think gold, silver, bronze for an Olympic Games
>>> competition.  Which is why in our model we have the following properties
>>> (all of data type "integer"):
>>> position - The position to which this prize is awarded.
>>> maxPosition - The highest position (lowest number) to which this prize
>>> is awarded.
>>> minPosition - The lowest position (highest number) to which this prize
>>> is awarded.
>>>
>>> maxPosition and minPosition are useful because there are often events -
>>> er, competitions - for which the same prize is awarded to a range of
>>> competitors that finish.  Most critically here for video game competitions
>>> (and many other types of competitions) is that players in the top X advance
>>> to the next round, where the prizeAwarded is a Qualification.
>>>
>>> Tangentially (and without going too far down a rabbit hole) I'll note
>>> that many "awards for an achievement" are often IMO de facto "prizes for a
>>> competition" despite how they're labelled - and especially when an award is
>>> time-bound.  The 2011 Academy Award for Best Picture is really an prize
>>> awarded for a competition - the competitors being those pictures nominated
>>> for Best Picture for that year.  On that note I'll note with thanks too the
>>> feedback provided on whether on not a prize should be restricted to
>>> something awarded for an *event*, which narrowing the definition of a
>>> prize to be an award for a *competition* solves, I think.
>>>
>>> > A Nobel Prize may not fall within this definition, but maybe it is
>>> more like an award for passing an exam than a prize for athletics or
>>> solving crossword puzzles.
>>>
>>> Without wanting to be contrary, even for something like the Fields Medal
>>> 1998 or Nobel Prize for Literature 2001 I think Thad's "prize" definition
>>> is more applicable than his "award, badge, achievement" definition.  At
>>> least in the sense you don't get a Nobel Prize for, say, finishing writing
>>> something, but for being the best writer of things among an implicit but
>>> very real field of competitors (all writers of things, for the Fields all
>>> practitioners of mathematics).  So I do think that it *is* actually
>>> more like a prize for athletics than an award for passing an exam.  On the
>>> other hand, I do concede that a Nobel Prize isn't awarded for an event per
>>> se - almost more like a prize awarded for a *season *(analogous in
>>> sport to something like the Heisman Trophy, although there the competitors
>>> - nominees for the award - are explicit).
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 7:19 AM, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Phil,
>>>>
>>>> Yeap, we're saying the same things.
>>>> I was pointing out the subtle differences also.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Completing something
>>>> 2. Discovering something
>>>>
>>>> 3. Receiving something for accomplishing # 1
>>>> 4. Receiving something for accomplishing # 2
>>>>
>>>> (In English we have multiple words to choose for all 4 of those
>>>> concepts)
>>>>
>>>> Where this proposal is for # 3.  I get that. I understand that.
>>>>
>>>> But there are Type needs for # 1, # 2, and # 4  where we are missing
>>>> subtypes that we currently don't have.
>>>>
>>>> # 3  Prize - award given to a winner of a competitive event
>>>> # 4  Award, Badge, Achievement - an award for finishing or completing a
>>>> Goal
>>>>
>>>> # 2 Discovery
>>>> # 1 Finished
>>>>
>>>> I don't want to mix the 4 concepts in Schema.org.  Another vocabulary
>>>> besides Schema.org is welcome to mix those and confuse publishers and
>>>> machines.
>>>>
>>>> (I also prefer my definition of a Prize, since it mentions its given to
>>>> a winner, and less confusing when translated to other languages.  Whereas
>>>> Aaron's definition gives the feeling that the prize is given to the
>>>> competition itself and not the winner)
>>>>
>>>> Anyways, I think the above now summarizes my true feelings.
>>>> -Thad
>>>> +ThadGuidry <https://www.google.com/+ThadGuidry>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>