- From: Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 08:19:57 -0700
- To: Vicki Tardif Holland <vtardif@google.com>
- Cc: Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk>, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAMbipBsjetp-+HVFZK63bXQra1g=zrNhjPXf6YJrCU9LNP887w@mail.gmail.com>
Fair enough VickI. And I really don't think these types of awards are prizes. >From a modelling perspective I think the salient challenge here is how to represent an award that's awarded annually or at some other interval - as opposed to an ad hoc award, or something "awarded" for completing something (e.g. certificate of achievement). On May 18, 2017 8:01 AM, "Vicki Tardif Holland" <vtardif@google.com> wrote: > Without wanting to be contrary, even for something like the Fields Medal >> 1998 or Nobel Prize for Literature 2001 I think Thad's "prize" definition >> is more applicable than his "award, badge, achievement" definition. At >> least in the sense you don't get a Nobel Prize for, say, finishing writing >> something, but for being the best writer of things among an implicit but >> very real field of competitors (all writers of things, for the Fields all >> practitioners of mathematics). So I do think that it *is* actually more >> like a prize for athletics than an award for passing an exam. On the other >> hand, I do concede that a Nobel Prize isn't awarded for an event per se - >> almost more like a prize awarded for a *season *(analogous in sport to >> something like the Heisman Trophy, although there the competitors - >> nominees for the award - are explicit). > > > This feels like trying to shoehorn something into an overly narrow > definition. Things like the Nobel Prize are for a body of work, which > generally does not have clean cut start/end dates. > > And what do you do with things like the Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award? > To say Michael Jackson was the "best musician" is an odd interpretation of > that award. > > - Vicki > > > On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 6:32 PM, Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Thanks all for your input. I especially like your classifications of >> awards and prizes Thad, and the narrower definition of prize you provide - >> though regarding that definition, only to a point: >> > Prize - award given to a winner of a competitive event >> >> I'm more aligned with Phil here: >> > So how about changing the definition to explicitly say what Aaron >> asserted (and allow for >1 prize): >> > "A prize awarded for a competition" >> >> Though mostly for the "and allow for >1 prize" part, so the Thad >> definition might be modified to say: >> "Prize - award given to a winner or winners of a competitive event" >> >> Examples of prizes awarded to more than one winner of a competition >> abound, of course - think gold, silver, bronze for an Olympic Games >> competition. Which is why in our model we have the following properties >> (all of data type "integer"): >> position - The position to which this prize is awarded. >> maxPosition - The highest position (lowest number) to which this prize is >> awarded. >> minPosition - The lowest position (highest number) to which this prize is >> awarded. >> >> maxPosition and minPosition are useful because there are often events - >> er, competitions - for which the same prize is awarded to a range of >> competitors that finish. Most critically here for video game competitions >> (and many other types of competitions) is that players in the top X advance >> to the next round, where the prizeAwarded is a Qualification. >> >> Tangentially (and without going too far down a rabbit hole) I'll note >> that many "awards for an achievement" are often IMO de facto "prizes for a >> competition" despite how they're labelled - and especially when an award is >> time-bound. The 2011 Academy Award for Best Picture is really an prize >> awarded for a competition - the competitors being those pictures nominated >> for Best Picture for that year. On that note I'll note with thanks too the >> feedback provided on whether on not a prize should be restricted to >> something awarded for an *event*, which narrowing the definition of a >> prize to be an award for a *competition* solves, I think. >> >> > A Nobel Prize may not fall within this definition, but maybe it is more >> like an award for passing an exam than a prize for athletics or solving >> crossword puzzles. >> >> Without wanting to be contrary, even for something like the Fields Medal >> 1998 or Nobel Prize for Literature 2001 I think Thad's "prize" definition >> is more applicable than his "award, badge, achievement" definition. At >> least in the sense you don't get a Nobel Prize for, say, finishing writing >> something, but for being the best writer of things among an implicit but >> very real field of competitors (all writers of things, for the Fields all >> practitioners of mathematics). So I do think that it *is* actually more >> like a prize for athletics than an award for passing an exam. On the other >> hand, I do concede that a Nobel Prize isn't awarded for an event per se - >> almost more like a prize awarded for a *season *(analogous in sport to >> something like the Heisman Trophy, although there the competitors - >> nominees for the award - are explicit). >> >> >> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 7:19 AM, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Phil, >>> >>> Yeap, we're saying the same things. >>> I was pointing out the subtle differences also. >>> >>> 1. Completing something >>> 2. Discovering something >>> >>> 3. Receiving something for accomplishing # 1 >>> 4. Receiving something for accomplishing # 2 >>> >>> (In English we have multiple words to choose for all 4 of those concepts) >>> >>> Where this proposal is for # 3. I get that. I understand that. >>> >>> But there are Type needs for # 1, # 2, and # 4 where we are missing >>> subtypes that we currently don't have. >>> >>> # 3 Prize - award given to a winner of a competitive event >>> # 4 Award, Badge, Achievement - an award for finishing or completing a >>> Goal >>> >>> # 2 Discovery >>> # 1 Finished >>> >>> I don't want to mix the 4 concepts in Schema.org. Another vocabulary >>> besides Schema.org is welcome to mix those and confuse publishers and >>> machines. >>> >>> (I also prefer my definition of a Prize, since it mentions its given to >>> a winner, and less confusing when translated to other languages. Whereas >>> Aaron's definition gives the feeling that the prize is given to the >>> competition itself and not the winner) >>> >>> Anyways, I think the above now summarizes my true feelings. >>> -Thad >>> +ThadGuidry <https://www.google.com/+ThadGuidry> >>> >> >> >
Received on Thursday, 18 May 2017 15:20:33 UTC