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Re: Political Rhetoric Vocabulary

From: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 21:47:57 +0000
Message-ID: <CAD47Kz7Rc6DwFPuJUaMi7d2T-chKWZ+jvXfDLgg2QdveO5YSxw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "R.V.Guha" <guha@guha.com>
Cc: Chaals from Yandex <chaals@yandex-team.ru>, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, Joe Duarte <songofapollo@gmail.com>, Eric Franzon <eric.franzon@gmail.com>, Paul Watson <lazarus@lazaruscorporation.co.uk>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
Many of the use case differences described in this thread are more to do
with the person, or possibly organisation, than the type of
speech/proclamation/address/press
release that they are giving.

If that person is POTUS, or another head of state, or the chair of a small
town administration, or a candidate in an election, it is their status that
is a qualifier to the type of speech etc.

To that end we could include a new property *speaker*, or perhaps
*deliveredBy*, with a range of *Speech* & *Proclamation*.

 A sub property of creator ?

Like @Chaals, I am not so sure on *ExecutiveAction - *maybe a rename to
*ExecutiveOrder* would help (also with a *deliveredBy* property).

~Richard.



Richard Wallis
Founder, Data Liberate
http://dataliberate.com
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
Twitter: @rjw

On 25 March 2017 at 14:33, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:

> There are two differences. There are statements made by heads of state
> that are not proclamations. Such as vetos, executive actions and many more.
> Second, not all proclamations are made by a head of state. Heck, my little
> town of Los Altos periodically makes proclamations.
>
> guha
>
> On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 4:25 AM, <chaals@yandex-team.ru> wrote:
>
>> Hi Guha,
>>
>> a few clarifying questions…
>>
>> 17.03.2017, 21:09, "R.V.Guha" <guha@guha.com>:
>>
>> Revised, highly simplified first step for the core.
>>
>>
>> Political Discourse Vocabulary
>>
>>
>> New subClass of CreativeWork: Speech, PressRelease, HeadOfStateStatement,
>> Proclamation, ExecutiveAction
>>
>>
>> Can you explain what the difference is between a HeadOfStateStatement and
>> a Proclamation?
>>
>> And what an ExecutiveAction is - particularly because it looks like
>> something out of the Actions vocabulary…
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> New subClass of Speech: InauguralAddress, CommencementAddress,
>> CampaignSpeech, StateOfUnionReport
>>
>>
>> Is the difference between an InauguralAddress and a CommencementAddress
>> that in the former it is the first speech of an office-holder, while in the
>> latter it is a speech to some other group, such as the king or governer or
>> someone opening parliament?
>>
>> StateOfUnionReport seems to be one of a class of regular events. It
>> doesn't seem that the State of the Union is different from any number of
>> memorial speeches presented annually, the annual "budget speech" of the
>> Australian government, and so on. I suggest we generalise this to
>> "RecurrentSpeechEvent" or something - the name of the event should be
>> enough to identify it rather than having to make a stack of classes for
>> specific events.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> New subClass of Event: PressEvent
>>
>>
>> Seems reasonable enough.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> Chaals
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 16 March 2017 at 21:55, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
>> > You are right. Political Discourse might be a better name for it.
>>
>> There are various overlapping ways in which these things might be
>> organized wr.t. "named hosted extension" subdomains ("lega" has been
>> mentioned for related work around legislation, courts etc; "civic" is
>> also in the air). My suggestion would be to asap get the basic term
>> definitions drafted into the "pending" section so that they can be
>> used and tested, and worry about how to name packages of terms as a
>> separable problem. Any attempt to partition vocab is always tricky
>> (e.g. ClaimReview for fact-checking is also discourse/argumentation)
>> but it shouldn't stop us from getting the basics in place. I'd also
>> like to see the earlier Legislation proposal progress, and wouldn't
>> want to slow either of these down by forcing a big debate for whether
>> they are part of a big "legal" vs "civic" vs "discourse" section....
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> ps. we also have http://pending.schema.org/Quotation which has some
>> discussion in https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/271 around
>> citations and date/time details
>>
>>
>> > guha
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Joe Duarte <songofapollo@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Okay, so now that I see the subClasses, I'm not sure this is about
>> >> rhetoric. I thought this vocab was going to be about the sorts of
>> arguments
>> >> and appeals that people make in politics, maybe something along the
>> lines of
>> >> AML: http://www.ai.sri.com/~seas/aml/
>> >>
>> >> or what this W3C group is working on:
>> >> https://www.w3.org/community/argumentation/
>> >>
>> >> Rhetoric is about language, persuasion, and reasoning:
>> >> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rhetoric
>> >>
>> >> Another way to put it: rhetoric is about content and style.
>> >>
>> >> The vocab we have so far seems more like a list of events, of venues
>> where
>> >> a politician might give a speech, as well as a couple of documents a US
>> >> President might issue (and others have noted the US-centricity of it).
>> >> That's not really about rhetoric – that's just a list of things
>> Presidents
>> >> do in the general domain of speeches and press releases.
>> >>
>> >> It also strikes me as odd that Political Rhetoric would be narrowed
>> down
>> >> to what chief executives of a nation do. Even if we thought that
>> rhetoric
>> >> meant giving a speech to this audience, then to another audience, etc.,
>> >> there's no reason to suppose that the only speakers we care about are
>> chief
>> >> executives of countries. That's not even half of the goings-on in the
>> domain
>> >> of politicians going around giving speeches and releasing statements or
>> >> orders. There are legislators, governors, state legislators, lobbyists,
>> >> activists, etc. – a lot of political action of the
>> speeches-and-releases
>> >> variety doesn't even come from people in government, but people
>> outside of
>> >> it. So if this is meant specifically to encode some important things
>> about
>> >> what national chief executives do, I suggest calling it something more
>> like
>> >> Political Events or Political Addresses.
>> >>
>> >> By the way, I'll probably try to dovetail with this at some point in
>> the
>> >> next or so – I own argumentbase.com (there's nothing there yet), but
>> I plan
>> >> to build a schema for arguments and positions (mostly political in
>> nature),
>> >> including evidence quality, which will be very interesting and
>> perilous as
>> >> far as pulling it off without ruining it with unconscious political
>> biases
>> >> (I'm the lead author of this paper, so I'm always worried about
>> political
>> >> bias.) I'll need a lot of help to keep it clean and maximally useful.
>> >>
>> >> Ciao,
>> >>
>> >> Joe
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:44 AM, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Absolutely. My hope is to have both.
>> >>>
>> >>> guha
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Eric Franzon <eric.franzon@gmail.com
>> >
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> My preference is for InauguralAddress, as HOS is specific to the
>> country
>> >>>> level, but I would like to be able to describe entities such as
>> those in
>> >>>> this page:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://www.westgov.org/news/357-news-2017/1341-western-gove
>> rnors-deliver-inaugural-speeches
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --Eric
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 3:54 PM, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hi,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> What is the reasoning behind having both "InauguralAddress" and
>> >>>>>> "USPInauguralAddress"? My concern is that (unless we adopt a less
>> US-centric
>> >>>>>> prefix such as "HOS" - see below) then we will end up with
>> requests for
>> >>>>>> near-identical classes for many other major countries.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> InauguralAddress could potentially cover a much larger set of
>> >>>>> inaugurals. but I completely agree with your suggestion of
>> replacing USP
>> >>>>> with HOS.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> guha
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Eric Axel Franzon
>> >>>>
>> >>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericfranzon
>> >>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/EricAxel
>> >>>> G+: http://http://gplus.to/ericfranzon
>> >>>> Online Business Card: http://ericaxel.magntize.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Charles McCathie Nevile - standards - Yandex
>> chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
>>
>>
>
>
Received on Saturday, 25 March 2017 21:48:33 UTC

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