- From: R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com>
- Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 19:42:33 -0700
- To: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
- Cc: Chaals from Yandex <chaals@yandex-team.ru>, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, Joe Duarte <songofapollo@gmail.com>, Eric Franzon <eric.franzon@gmail.com>, Paul Watson <lazarus@lazaruscorporation.co.uk>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CABieRRKLaZOc2MFrMY3oOLw5-781MwtEZAVUb29wec9OHRjrSQ@mail.gmail.com>
There are both. A proclamation issued by the same person has a different status than an order. And then, we can have the same kind of 'speech act' spoken by people at different levels. I agree about ExecutiveOrder and deliveredBy. gha On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 2:47 PM, Richard Wallis < richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote: > Many of the use case differences described in this thread are more to do > with the person, or possibly organisation, than the type of speech/ > proclamation/address/press release that they are giving. > > If that person is POTUS, or another head of state, or the chair of a small > town administration, or a candidate in an election, it is their status that > is a qualifier to the type of speech etc. > > To that end we could include a new property *speaker*, or perhaps > *deliveredBy*, with a range of *Speech* & *Proclamation*. > > A sub property of creator ? > > Like @Chaals, I am not so sure on *ExecutiveAction - *maybe a rename to > *ExecutiveOrder* would help (also with a *deliveredBy* property). > > ~Richard. > > > > Richard Wallis > Founder, Data Liberate > http://dataliberate.com > Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis > Twitter: @rjw > > On 25 March 2017 at 14:33, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote: > >> There are two differences. There are statements made by heads of state >> that are not proclamations. Such as vetos, executive actions and many more. >> Second, not all proclamations are made by a head of state. Heck, my little >> town of Los Altos periodically makes proclamations. >> >> guha >> >> On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 4:25 AM, <chaals@yandex-team.ru> wrote: >> >>> Hi Guha, >>> >>> a few clarifying questions… >>> >>> 17.03.2017, 21:09, "R.V.Guha" <guha@guha.com>: >>> >>> Revised, highly simplified first step for the core. >>> >>> >>> Political Discourse Vocabulary >>> >>> >>> New subClass of CreativeWork: Speech, PressRelease, >>> HeadOfStateStatement, Proclamation, ExecutiveAction >>> >>> >>> Can you explain what the difference is between a HeadOfStateStatement >>> and a Proclamation? >>> >>> And what an ExecutiveAction is - particularly because it looks like >>> something out of the Actions vocabulary… >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> New subClass of Speech: InauguralAddress, CommencementAddress, >>> CampaignSpeech, StateOfUnionReport >>> >>> >>> Is the difference between an InauguralAddress and a CommencementAddress >>> that in the former it is the first speech of an office-holder, while in the >>> latter it is a speech to some other group, such as the king or governer or >>> someone opening parliament? >>> >>> StateOfUnionReport seems to be one of a class of regular events. It >>> doesn't seem that the State of the Union is different from any number of >>> memorial speeches presented annually, the annual "budget speech" of the >>> Australian government, and so on. I suggest we generalise this to >>> "RecurrentSpeechEvent" or something - the name of the event should be >>> enough to identify it rather than having to make a stack of classes for >>> specific events. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> New subClass of Event: PressEvent >>> >>> >>> Seems reasonable enough. >>> >>> cheers >>> >>> Chaals >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> wrote: >>> >>> On 16 March 2017 at 21:55, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote: >>> > You are right. Political Discourse might be a better name for it. >>> >>> There are various overlapping ways in which these things might be >>> organized wr.t. "named hosted extension" subdomains ("lega" has been >>> mentioned for related work around legislation, courts etc; "civic" is >>> also in the air). My suggestion would be to asap get the basic term >>> definitions drafted into the "pending" section so that they can be >>> used and tested, and worry about how to name packages of terms as a >>> separable problem. Any attempt to partition vocab is always tricky >>> (e.g. ClaimReview for fact-checking is also discourse/argumentation) >>> but it shouldn't stop us from getting the basics in place. I'd also >>> like to see the earlier Legislation proposal progress, and wouldn't >>> want to slow either of these down by forcing a big debate for whether >>> they are part of a big "legal" vs "civic" vs "discourse" section.... >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> ps. we also have http://pending.schema.org/Quotation which has some >>> discussion in https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/271 around >>> citations and date/time details >>> >>> >>> > guha >>> > >>> > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Joe Duarte <songofapollo@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Okay, so now that I see the subClasses, I'm not sure this is about >>> >> rhetoric. I thought this vocab was going to be about the sorts of >>> arguments >>> >> and appeals that people make in politics, maybe something along the >>> lines of >>> >> AML: http://www.ai.sri.com/~seas/aml/ >>> >> >>> >> or what this W3C group is working on: >>> >> https://www.w3.org/community/argumentation/ >>> >> >>> >> Rhetoric is about language, persuasion, and reasoning: >>> >> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rhetoric >>> >> >>> >> Another way to put it: rhetoric is about content and style. >>> >> >>> >> The vocab we have so far seems more like a list of events, of venues >>> where >>> >> a politician might give a speech, as well as a couple of documents a >>> US >>> >> President might issue (and others have noted the US-centricity of it). >>> >> That's not really about rhetoric – that's just a list of things >>> Presidents >>> >> do in the general domain of speeches and press releases. >>> >> >>> >> It also strikes me as odd that Political Rhetoric would be narrowed >>> down >>> >> to what chief executives of a nation do. Even if we thought that >>> rhetoric >>> >> meant giving a speech to this audience, then to another audience, >>> etc., >>> >> there's no reason to suppose that the only speakers we care about are >>> chief >>> >> executives of countries. That's not even half of the goings-on in the >>> domain >>> >> of politicians going around giving speeches and releasing statements >>> or >>> >> orders. There are legislators, governors, state legislators, >>> lobbyists, >>> >> activists, etc. – a lot of political action of the >>> speeches-and-releases >>> >> variety doesn't even come from people in government, but people >>> outside of >>> >> it. So if this is meant specifically to encode some important things >>> about >>> >> what national chief executives do, I suggest calling it something >>> more like >>> >> Political Events or Political Addresses. >>> >> >>> >> By the way, I'll probably try to dovetail with this at some point in >>> the >>> >> next or so – I own argumentbase.com (there's nothing there yet), but >>> I plan >>> >> to build a schema for arguments and positions (mostly political in >>> nature), >>> >> including evidence quality, which will be very interesting and >>> perilous as >>> >> far as pulling it off without ruining it with unconscious political >>> biases >>> >> (I'm the lead author of this paper, so I'm always worried about >>> political >>> >> bias.) I'll need a lot of help to keep it clean and maximally useful. >>> >> >>> >> Ciao, >>> >> >>> >> Joe >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:44 AM, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Absolutely. My hope is to have both. >>> >>> >>> >>> guha >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Eric Franzon < >>> eric.franzon@gmail.com> >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>> >>>> My preference is for InauguralAddress, as HOS is specific to the >>> country >>> >>>> level, but I would like to be able to describe entities such as >>> those in >>> >>>> this page: >>> >>>> >>> >>>> https://www.westgov.org/news/357-news-2017/1341-western-gove >>> rnors-deliver-inaugural-speeches >>> >>>> >>> >>>> --Eric >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 3:54 PM, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote: >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Hi, >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> What is the reasoning behind having both "InauguralAddress" and >>> >>>>>> "USPInauguralAddress"? My concern is that (unless we adopt a less >>> US-centric >>> >>>>>> prefix such as "HOS" - see below) then we will end up with >>> requests for >>> >>>>>> near-identical classes for many other major countries. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> InauguralAddress could potentially cover a much larger set of >>> >>>>> inaugurals. but I completely agree with your suggestion of >>> replacing USP >>> >>>>> with HOS. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> guha >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> Eric Axel Franzon >>> >>>> >>> >>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericfranzon >>> >>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/EricAxel >>> >>>> G+: http://http://gplus.to/ericfranzon >>> >>>> Online Business Card: http://ericaxel.magntize.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Charles McCathie Nevile - standards - Yandex >>> chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com >>> >>> >> >> >
Received on Sunday, 26 March 2017 02:43:07 UTC