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Re: Political Rhetoric Vocabulary

From: R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 19:42:33 -0700
Message-ID: <CABieRRKLaZOc2MFrMY3oOLw5-781MwtEZAVUb29wec9OHRjrSQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
Cc: Chaals from Yandex <chaals@yandex-team.ru>, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, Joe Duarte <songofapollo@gmail.com>, Eric Franzon <eric.franzon@gmail.com>, Paul Watson <lazarus@lazaruscorporation.co.uk>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
There are both. A proclamation issued by the same person has a different
status than an order. And then, we can have the same kind of 'speech act'
spoken by people at different levels.

I agree about ExecutiveOrder and deliveredBy.

gha

On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 2:47 PM, Richard Wallis <
richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote:

> Many of the use case differences described in this thread are more to do
> with the person, or possibly organisation, than the type of speech/
> proclamation/address/press release that they are giving.
>
> If that person is POTUS, or another head of state, or the chair of a small
> town administration, or a candidate in an election, it is their status that
> is a qualifier to the type of speech etc.
>
> To that end we could include a new property *speaker*, or perhaps
> *deliveredBy*, with a range of *Speech* & *Proclamation*.
>
>  A sub property of creator ?
>
> Like @Chaals, I am not so sure on *ExecutiveAction - *maybe a rename to
> *ExecutiveOrder* would help (also with a *deliveredBy* property).
>
> ~Richard.
>
>
>
> Richard Wallis
> Founder, Data Liberate
> http://dataliberate.com
> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
> Twitter: @rjw
>
> On 25 March 2017 at 14:33, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
>
>> There are two differences. There are statements made by heads of state
>> that are not proclamations. Such as vetos, executive actions and many more.
>> Second, not all proclamations are made by a head of state. Heck, my little
>> town of Los Altos periodically makes proclamations.
>>
>> guha
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 4:25 AM, <chaals@yandex-team.ru> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Guha,
>>>
>>> a few clarifying questions…
>>>
>>> 17.03.2017, 21:09, "R.V.Guha" <guha@guha.com>:
>>>
>>> Revised, highly simplified first step for the core.
>>>
>>>
>>> Political Discourse Vocabulary
>>>
>>>
>>> New subClass of CreativeWork: Speech, PressRelease,
>>> HeadOfStateStatement, Proclamation, ExecutiveAction
>>>
>>>
>>> Can you explain what the difference is between a HeadOfStateStatement
>>> and a Proclamation?
>>>
>>> And what an ExecutiveAction is - particularly because it looks like
>>> something out of the Actions vocabulary…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> New subClass of Speech: InauguralAddress, CommencementAddress,
>>> CampaignSpeech, StateOfUnionReport
>>>
>>>
>>> Is the difference between an InauguralAddress and a CommencementAddress
>>> that in the former it is the first speech of an office-holder, while in the
>>> latter it is a speech to some other group, such as the king or governer or
>>> someone opening parliament?
>>>
>>> StateOfUnionReport seems to be one of a class of regular events. It
>>> doesn't seem that the State of the Union is different from any number of
>>> memorial speeches presented annually, the annual "budget speech" of the
>>> Australian government, and so on. I suggest we generalise this to
>>> "RecurrentSpeechEvent" or something - the name of the event should be
>>> enough to identify it rather than having to make a stack of classes for
>>> specific events.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> New subClass of Event: PressEvent
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems reasonable enough.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>> Chaals
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 16 March 2017 at 21:55, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
>>> > You are right. Political Discourse might be a better name for it.
>>>
>>> There are various overlapping ways in which these things might be
>>> organized wr.t. "named hosted extension" subdomains ("lega" has been
>>> mentioned for related work around legislation, courts etc; "civic" is
>>> also in the air). My suggestion would be to asap get the basic term
>>> definitions drafted into the "pending" section so that they can be
>>> used and tested, and worry about how to name packages of terms as a
>>> separable problem. Any attempt to partition vocab is always tricky
>>> (e.g. ClaimReview for fact-checking is also discourse/argumentation)
>>> but it shouldn't stop us from getting the basics in place. I'd also
>>> like to see the earlier Legislation proposal progress, and wouldn't
>>> want to slow either of these down by forcing a big debate for whether
>>> they are part of a big "legal" vs "civic" vs "discourse" section....
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> ps. we also have http://pending.schema.org/Quotation which has some
>>> discussion in https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/271 around
>>> citations and date/time details
>>>
>>>
>>> > guha
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Joe Duarte <songofapollo@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Okay, so now that I see the subClasses, I'm not sure this is about
>>> >> rhetoric. I thought this vocab was going to be about the sorts of
>>> arguments
>>> >> and appeals that people make in politics, maybe something along the
>>> lines of
>>> >> AML: http://www.ai.sri.com/~seas/aml/
>>> >>
>>> >> or what this W3C group is working on:
>>> >> https://www.w3.org/community/argumentation/
>>> >>
>>> >> Rhetoric is about language, persuasion, and reasoning:
>>> >> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rhetoric
>>> >>
>>> >> Another way to put it: rhetoric is about content and style.
>>> >>
>>> >> The vocab we have so far seems more like a list of events, of venues
>>> where
>>> >> a politician might give a speech, as well as a couple of documents a
>>> US
>>> >> President might issue (and others have noted the US-centricity of it).
>>> >> That's not really about rhetoric – that's just a list of things
>>> Presidents
>>> >> do in the general domain of speeches and press releases.
>>> >>
>>> >> It also strikes me as odd that Political Rhetoric would be narrowed
>>> down
>>> >> to what chief executives of a nation do. Even if we thought that
>>> rhetoric
>>> >> meant giving a speech to this audience, then to another audience,
>>> etc.,
>>> >> there's no reason to suppose that the only speakers we care about are
>>> chief
>>> >> executives of countries. That's not even half of the goings-on in the
>>> domain
>>> >> of politicians going around giving speeches and releasing statements
>>> or
>>> >> orders. There are legislators, governors, state legislators,
>>> lobbyists,
>>> >> activists, etc. – a lot of political action of the
>>> speeches-and-releases
>>> >> variety doesn't even come from people in government, but people
>>> outside of
>>> >> it. So if this is meant specifically to encode some important things
>>> about
>>> >> what national chief executives do, I suggest calling it something
>>> more like
>>> >> Political Events or Political Addresses.
>>> >>
>>> >> By the way, I'll probably try to dovetail with this at some point in
>>> the
>>> >> next or so – I own argumentbase.com (there's nothing there yet), but
>>> I plan
>>> >> to build a schema for arguments and positions (mostly political in
>>> nature),
>>> >> including evidence quality, which will be very interesting and
>>> perilous as
>>> >> far as pulling it off without ruining it with unconscious political
>>> biases
>>> >> (I'm the lead author of this paper, so I'm always worried about
>>> political
>>> >> bias.) I'll need a lot of help to keep it clean and maximally useful.
>>> >>
>>> >> Ciao,
>>> >>
>>> >> Joe
>>> >>
>>> >> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:44 AM, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Absolutely. My hope is to have both.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> guha
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Eric Franzon <
>>> eric.franzon@gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> My preference is for InauguralAddress, as HOS is specific to the
>>> country
>>> >>>> level, but I would like to be able to describe entities such as
>>> those in
>>> >>>> this page:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> https://www.westgov.org/news/357-news-2017/1341-western-gove
>>> rnors-deliver-inaugural-speeches
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --Eric
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 3:54 PM, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Hi,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> What is the reasoning behind having both "InauguralAddress" and
>>> >>>>>> "USPInauguralAddress"? My concern is that (unless we adopt a less
>>> US-centric
>>> >>>>>> prefix such as "HOS" - see below) then we will end up with
>>> requests for
>>> >>>>>> near-identical classes for many other major countries.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> InauguralAddress could potentially cover a much larger set of
>>> >>>>> inaugurals. but I completely agree with your suggestion of
>>> replacing USP
>>> >>>>> with HOS.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> guha
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> Eric Axel Franzon
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericfranzon
>>> >>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/EricAxel
>>> >>>> G+: http://http://gplus.to/ericfranzon
>>> >>>> Online Business Card: http://ericaxel.magntize.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Charles McCathie Nevile - standards - Yandex
>>> chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Sunday, 26 March 2017 02:43:07 UTC

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